System QB? Great supporting cast? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

System QB? Great supporting cast?

I hope the papa doesn’t interfere too much in the process and allows his son, a man, to handle his buisness from here on out.
I also don’t want to forget the toughness that Tua has shown throughout his college career..he has played hurt and not missed but 1 1/2 games I believe
 
I'm calling some degree of nonsense! :lol:

The more I look at Tua the less I like. Lacks ideal size. Durability issues.
More facilitator (i.e., point guard) than dominator. I certainly don't see a
future Aaron Rogers. Weak arm. Lacks velocity on intermediate and
deeper throws. Wanna bet? Show me a 30+ yard frozen Tua rope!!!

His lack of zip will be exponentially more critical in Pros. The "system"
and players around him significantly mask his weaknesses. That won't
be true in the NFL. He won't have that running game, he won't have
that protection (time) and his receivers simply won't be 5 yards open!

Add to that the prevailing fact that he won't participate in the combine
because his arm will be exposed. And as the recent injury illustrates
his escapability and scrambling are nothing exceptional.

Seriously. The kid might get eaten alive in the NFL!

:lol:
I think you are 100% on the money but we could both turn out to be wrong. :lol:
 
The more I see of Tua I get a less than impressed vibe, mostly on the fact he doesnt or isnt required to make NFL throws(hash to the far sideline) and that is a proving ground for arm strength.
A poster mentioned CK did something on Tua's arm strength havent seen that and dont know if he is making a pro or con for Tua's arm.

This QB class is actually shaping up to be less than spectacular in my opinion certainly there are players you can take high and not be questioned however the certainty they will work out long term is not there in my opinion.

On gut feel and eyeball test I would put Tua 3rd behind Herbert and Burrow.... however I really like Jacob Eason.
 
The more I see of Tua I get a less than impressed vibe, mostly on the fact he doesnt or isnt required to make NFL throws(hash to the far sideline) and that is a proving ground for arm strength.
A poster mentioned CK did something on Tua's arm strength havent seen that and dont know if he is making a pro or con for Tua's arm.

This QB class is actually shaping up to be less than spectacular in my opinion certainly there are players you can take high and not be questioned however the certainty they will work out long term is not there in my opinion.

On gut feel and eyeball test I would put Tua 3rd behind Herbert and Burrow.... however I really like Jacob Eason.

I like Eason too and think that we can get him with our 1c pick. Tua is going to be off the board before our 1a.
 
Tyree Jackson had the biggest arm in the draft last year, also one of the most athletic. He's already relegated to the XFL.

Along with Cardale Jones, who also had the biggest arm in the 2016 class. Blaine Gabbert, etc.

Guys like Brees and Peyton Manning did not have big arms. Look what Minshew is doing with that squirt gun of his. People are putting way too much emphasis on arm strength.

It's pretty much a guarantee the 2 best QB's from this class won't be at the top in terms of arm strength. Just like they weren't in almost all of the other drafts.
 
I get it. I just prefer real MEN at QB and not prissy types. :lol:

Glue Marino's ARM on Tua and I'll join the cult! Beyond the studies and stats

just throw the pig at the combine and let my eyes make the comparative decision!

No I don't think he's gonna show because he won't show well VS. the competition.

Like a Kentucky Derby where the supposed "tripple crown fav" stays out of the race!

If you're THAT GOOD ---------- EFFING PROVE IT! Otherwise you got something to hide.

:lol:
We Don’t Want You In the Cult
 
Tyree Jackson had the biggest arm in the draft last year, also one of the most athletic. He's already relegated to the XFL.

Along with Cardale Jones, who also had the biggest arm in the 2016 class. Blaine Gabbert, etc.

Guys like Brees and Peyton Manning did not have big arms. Look what Minshew is doing with that squirt gun of his. People are putting way too much emphasis on arm strength.

It's pretty much a guarantee the 2 best QB's from this class won't be at the top in terms of arm strength. Just like they weren't in almost all of the other drafts.

Based on my observations -- I think Brees and Peyton Manning clearly have/had better arms than Tua. They could both throw "fast balls" when needed -- and achieve pro level velocity.

Beyond that -- I 100% agree. Arm and athlete are not the definitive measure of a QB -- but they certainly have significant relevance.

Take Aaron Rodgers as a prime example, his arm + athletics give him a dominant advantage in many situations. You take that away from him and he's not the best QB in the league -- tho he still could be functionally efficient.

Last, I think we all know the NFL tends to expose weaknesses in a players game that he can get away with in college. So I think focusing in that direction is just as important when projecting a player as just noting his strengths.

As you so clearly stated about a week ago -- there are no guarantees and every player comes with some degree of downside. Specifically his "game" may not translate in the PROs as hoped/expected.

I guess I value arm talent more than some -- but I think that's a pretty essential "feature" to be a dominate PRO QB. And I think that's what we want -- a DOMINATE player at the position...
 
Based on my observations -- I think Brees and Peyton Manning clearly have/had better arms than Tua. They could both throw "fast balls" when needed -- and achieve pro level velocity.

Beyond that -- I 100% agree. Arm and athlete are not the definitive measure of a QB -- but they certainly have significant relevance.

Take Aaron Rodgers as a prime example, his arm + athletics give him a dominant advantage in many situations. You take that away from him and he's not the best QB in the league -- tho he still could be functionally efficient.

Last, I think we all know the NFL tends to expose weaknesses in a players game that he can get away with in college. So I think focusing in that direction is just as important when projecting a player as just noting his strengths.

As you so clearly stated about a week ago -- there are no guarantees and every player comes with some degree of downside. Specifically his "game" may not translate in the PROs as hoped/expected.

I guess I value arm talent more than some -- but I think that's a pretty essential "feature" to be a dominate PRO QB. And I think that's what we want -- a DOMINATE player at the position...


Two things.

First, you're totally exaggerating Tua's arm. You're not even in the ballpark of where his arm strength is at. Brees and Manning do not have clearly better arms than Tua. That is simply not true. Tua's arm is better than Matt Ryan's.

Secondly, you're never going to see the NFL expose a QB's arm as the insurmountable weakness unless it was already too weak to be considered a legitimate prospect to begin with. It doesn't matter how strong your arm is if you don't know where to go with the football, or can't throw with anticipation. Accuracy and timing are the must have traits. Arm strength is not an indicator of potential dominance. However, the feet are.

Your feet dominate everything you do at any position in any sport. That's what makes Rodgers special, not his arm. Same with Mahomes.

Tua's footwork and ability to make subtle moves in the pocket to find the throwing lanes are beyond most anything you'll ever see. It's legitimately on a Drew Brees type level. The devil is in the details my friend.

Nobody knows what Tua's career is going to end up being, nor anyone else's. All I'm saying is you're not really seeing this one all that well. It happens. Your knocks are just too far off base.
 
Based on my observations -- I think Brees and Peyton Manning clearly have/had better arms than Tua. They could both throw "fast balls" when needed -- and achieve pro level velocity.

Beyond that -- I 100% agree. Arm and athlete are not the definitive measure of a QB -- but they certainly have significant relevance.

Take Aaron Rodgers as a prime example, his arm + athletics give him a dominant advantage in many situations. You take that away from him and he's not the best QB in the league -- tho he still could be functionally efficient.

Last, I think we all know the NFL tends to expose weaknesses in a players game that he can get away with in college. So I think focusing in that direction is just as important when projecting a player as just noting his strengths.

As you so clearly stated about a week ago -- there are no guarantees and every player comes with some degree of downside. Specifically his "game" may not translate in the PROs as hoped/expected.

I guess I value arm talent more than some -- but I think that's a pretty essential "feature" to be a dominate PRO QB. And I think that's what we want -- a DOMINATE player at the position...
Sorry BNF...but if you pick a QB based on that one tool,you end up looking like a tool..
 
Two things.

First, you're totally exaggerating Tua's arm. You're not even in the ballpark of where his arm strength is at. Brees and Manning do not have clearly better arms than Tua. That is simply not true. Tua's arm is better than Matt Ryan's.

Secondly, you're never going to see the NFL expose a QB's arm as the insurmountable weakness unless it was already too weak to be considered a legitimate prospect to begin with. It doesn't matter how strong your arm is if you don't know where to go with the football, or can't throw with anticipation. Accuracy and timing are the must have traits. Arm strength is not an indicator of potential dominance. However, the feet are.

Your feet dominate everything you do at any position in any sport. That's what makes Rodgers special, not his arm. Same with Mahomes.

Tua's footwork and ability to make subtle moves in the pocket to find the throwing lanes are beyond most anything you'll ever see. It's legitimately on a Drew Brees type level. The devil is in the details my friend.

Nobody knows what Tua's career is going to end up being, nor anyone else's. All I'm saying is you're not really seeing this one all that well. It happens. Your knocks are just too far off base.

Well if your take is accurate re Tua's arm -- I see no reason he doesn't show that rascal off at the combine!

But I know you'll make some excuse how that's just a dog and pony show etc. and he won't compete. :lol:

Like I've said before -- I do like the kid and see some of the same positives you describe -- I just don't see

a future dominant player at the NFL level. But that means absolutely ZERO! If we pick the kid I hope

he suddenly develops a rocket launcher for an arm! Grows a few inches. And tuffens up!
 
Sorry BNF...but if you pick a QB based on that one tool,you end up looking like a tool..

Listen silly. I never said ARM talent is the "IT" of it!

Simple point. It does matter. And so does athletics. But so does a LOT more.

:lol:
 
Well if your take is accurate re Tua's arm -- I see no reason he doesn't show that rascal off at the combine!

But I know you'll make some excuse how that's just a dog and pony show etc. and he won't compete. :lol:

Like I've said before -- I do like the kid and see some of the same positives you describe -- I just don't see

a future dominant player at the NFL level. But that means absolutely ZERO! If we pick the kid I hope

he suddenly develops a rocket launcher for an arm! Grows a few inches. And tuffens up!


I don't know of any reason why he wouldn't compete at the combine, unless it's just because he's viewed as the consensus QB1 and has nothing to gain. He's QB1 for me whether he competes at the combine or not. We just don't see it the same here.

Besides, Miami doesn't need a QB they have a 6'4" Josh Rosen and a big time arm. Dominant.
 
I'm calling some degree of nonsense! :lol:

The more I look at Tua the less I like. Lacks ideal size. Durability issues.
More facilitator (i.e., point guard) than dominator. I certainly don't see a
future Aaron Rogers. Weak arm. Lacks velocity on intermediate and
deeper throws. Wanna bet? Show me a 30+ yard frozen Tua rope!!!

His lack of zip will be exponentially more critical in Pros. The "system"
and players around him significantly mask his weaknesses. That won't
be true in the NFL. He won't have that running game, he won't have
that protection (time) and his receivers simply won't be 5 yards open!

Add to that the prevailing fact that he won't participate in the combine
because his arm will be exposed. And as the recent injury illustrates
his escapability and scrambling are nothing exceptional.

Seriously. The kid might get eaten alive in the NFL!

:lol:
Did this 50 yard pass have too much air under it for your liking?

 
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