Taboo subject: Patrick Turner | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Taboo subject: Patrick Turner

In Miami opinion I'm sure Turner was one of the better players left. Also, if you have not noticed there was a run on WR right before Miami's pick. ( 4 of the last 5 were Wr ) If Turner was the last big one they had an interest in then they probably felt like had to move on him

Only Wr Miami had playing last year were Ginn, Hartline, Bess & Cam, so there was not a 5th option.

Probably had more to do with Cam's special teams ability & Turners lack of it.
When you are the 4th opinion then ST play usually determines things. If you think about it, all Miami's WR played ST in one form or another.

An entire Rd? Well if Kiper chimed in then it must be true.

Where was Kipers opinion on M. Colston? Did he had him projected higher? Like 1st Rd? or even 2nd? He exploded onto the NFL scene his rookie year. So please do not hand me Kiper or any draft guru. They all miss on player just as much as other. Mike Mayock loved Pat White. Here is what he had to say "Excellent arm/accuracy, the new 'slash'?"

Hartline had an ok rookie season, but lets not get a head of ourselves. He is replaceable.

So if Turner is just slower developing than others & in 5 Yrs he is a quality Wr will you still come back & say there were 80 better players on the board? BTW I wanted Miami to draft Jared Cook. L. Murphy would have been the better pick instead of Hartline.

Instant results are not an indicator of NFL success. The NFL is full of players who had great rookie years, but never did anything else the rest of their career, just as there are players who did nothing their rookie year & ended up have long productive careers.

Why not wait & see what Turner does this camp. If he is still not getting some type of playing time, then odds are he was, but it was just his rookie year & Wr is one of the hardest position. I thought they reached for Turner, but as I stated above. Maybe they felt like they had too.

BTW, you do know that Hartline had pretty much the same late Rd/UDFA. grade on him?


You do realize that the ability to play special teams is what increases your value in the draft, right? Particularly for WR prospects that I don't view as potential starting caliber WR's anyway...

Patrick Turner did not have any special teams value attached to him whatsoever....which is why he was even lower on my draft board (and whoever elses).....along with the inability to create seperation against college defensive backs...

The 5th "option" would've been some way to get the ball in his hands even if it had to be kick/punt returns...

I'm not even sure what you want to debate here....Patrick Turner was drafted with a 3rd round pick and never so much as peered at the huddle through his facemask....period...

Even if he had, I would still have considered him a reach in the 3rd round...

Does it mean he's going to suck forever? Of course not....but the guys that drafted him are the one's that have to answer for what he does or doesn't do from here on out....not me...

I agree that Jared Cook and Louis Murphy would've been better picks than Hartline....but they would've had to take Murphy in the 3rd instead of Turner....which is what I would've done...I talked about Murphy quite a bit as a 3rd round target for Miami in last years draft...

Listen...if these guys felt like Patrick Turner was the best player available when they chose him....then so be it...I can't fault them for staying true to their draft board...I can't fault anybody for staying true to their draft board...

We obviously just had much different opinions on Turner.....it is what it is...

Honestly, I didn't even have Hartline as a draftable prospect...I actually had a guy that they just signed to the practice squad a while back (Julius Pruitt) as a more draftable prospect.....and Hartline looks like he could end up being a solid #2 option...if he does...then doubling up on the picks will pay off in the long run...

However, with Miami's WR position being what it was, it's fairly obvious that their intentions were to land a WR to come in and contribute....and they succeeded...
 
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You do realize that the ability to play special teams is what increases your value in the draft, right? Particularly for WR prospects that I don't view as potential starting caliber WR's anyway...
Sure a little, but not much. Unless you have a special return ability like a D. Hester.

Patrick Turner did not have any special teams value attached to him whatsoever....which is why he was even lower on my draft board (and whoever elses).....along with the inability to create seperation against college defensive backs...
Sorry, but not concerned with where you had him ranked. Sure the knock on him was his inability to create separation

The 5th "option" would've been some way to get the ball in his hands even if it had to be kick/punt returns...
So you think Turner should be returning kicks? 5th option is a reference to offense, not anything else.

I'm not even sure what you want to debate here....Patrick Turner was drafted with a 3rd round pick and never so much as peered at the huddle through his facemask....period...
I'm debating that to judge a player solely on the fact he did not play his rookie year, but kept a spot on the team means he showed enough to be carried all season. If the men making the decision to not see potential then they would have cut him.

Even if he had, I would still have considered him a reach in the 3rd round....
He was a reach, but as I addressed. 4 of the 5 pick prior to his drafting were Wr. Barden, Wallace, Tate & Williams were drafted. I'm sure Miami had some of them rated higher than Turner.

Does it mean he's going to suck forever? Of course not....
Then why are you here complaining about him? Would you rather have a player need a Yr of seasoning or come out of the gate & produce, but never do anything else? The problem here is the draft is not about the following season. No team drafts a player depending on instant results from a rookie.

As Tiki put it. As a player he never depended on a rookie to produce, because the rookie had yet to prove it to himself that he could play in the NFL. Its an adjustment. Some do it quicker than others, but its a marathon, not a sprint. The fasted out of the gate are not always the winners. 5 Yrs from now Turner might be a quality WR while Hartline is out of the NFL. You never know.

but the guys that drafted him are the one's that have to answer for what he does or doesn't do from here on out....not me...
Ya think? You never have to answer for what you think.


I agree that Jared Cook and Louis Murphy would've been better picks than Hartline....but they would've had to take Murphy in the 3rd instead of Turner....which is what I would've done...I talked about Murphy quite a bit as a 3rd round target for Miami in last years draft...
They would have had to draft Cook in the 3rd. They passed on Murphy in the 4th to draft Hartline.


We obviously just had much different opinions on Turner.....it is what it is...
I do not have an opinion on Turner. I'm just saying slow down on the wasted pick talk, because he did not play last year & lets see what a year of offseason will do.


However, with Miami's WR position being what it was, it's fairly obvious that their intentions were to land a WR to come in and contribute....and they succeeded...
Well if they hit on Hartline, but miss on Turner then what is there to complain about?

Poster know the draft is a hit & miss type thing, so why are they complaining if they hit in the 4th, but miss in the 3rd. Sure they could have had a better player, but no one has 20/20 foresight.

BTW I wanted Miami to draft Nicks instead of Davis in Rd. 1.
 
Sure a little, but not much. Unless you have a special return ability like a D. Hester.

Sorry, but not concerned with where you had him ranked. Sure the knock on him was his inability to create separation

So you think Turner should be returning kicks? 5th option is a reference to offense, not anything else.

I'm debating that to judge a player solely on the fact he did not play his rookie year, but kept a spot on the team means he showed enough to be carried all season. If the men making the decision to not see potential then they would have cut him.

He was a reach, but as I addressed. 4 of the 5 pick prior to his drafting were Wr. Barden, Wallace, Tate & Williams were drafted. I'm sure Miami had some of them rated higher than Turner.

Then why are you here complaining about him? Would you rather have a player need a Yr of seasoning or come out of the gate & produce, but never do anything else? The problem here is the draft is not about the following season. No team drafts a player depending on instant results from a rookie.

As Tiki put it. As a player he never depended on a rookie to produce, because the rookie had yet to prove it to himself that he could play in the NFL. Its an adjustment. Some do it quicker than others, but its a marathon, not a sprint. The fasted out of the gate are not always the winners. 5 Yrs from now Turner might be a quality WR while Hartline is out of the NFL. You never know.

Ya think? You never have to answer for what you think.


They would have had to draft Cook in the 3rd. They passed on Murphy in the 4th to draft Hartline.


I do not have an opinion on Turner. I'm just saying slow down on the wasted pick talk, because he did not play last year & lets see what a year of offseason will do.


Well if they hit on Hartline, but miss on Turner then what is there to complain about?

Poster know the draft is a hit & miss type thing, so why are they complaining if they hit in the 4th, but miss in the 3rd. Sure they could have had a better player, but no one has 20/20 foresight.

BTW I wanted Miami to draft Nicks instead of Davis in Rd. 1.


When I said "We had differing opinions on Turner"...I was referring to myself and the guys that drafted him...not you...

Stop complaining about me complaining about the pick...:lol:...they reached for the guy....and got what they deserved in return...that's the only way I know to put it...

I'm subject to complain about a few more of them in a few months....and I'll be here to take you step by step through it as to why if you insist...

They drafted Turner because they wanted a "big" receiver....and it was painfully obvious that the Wilford signing was a bust....so they reached and got their "big" receiver...I doubt Tate or Wallace had anything to do with it....Barden was basically just a smaller school version of Turner to me...another "big" "tall" WR that couldn't get seperation in and out of his cuts...

I think it's obvious that we have two different agendas here...and yours isn't going to work with me.....you're here tell me how much smarter the guys in Miami's front office are than the rest of us and to just sit down, shut up, and be patient....it's just not going to work on me....

I'm more interested in talking about the draft scenario's and how/why they played out like they did....we're on two different wave lengths here....

Good day sir..
 
He'll get PT when he can out perform someone.......Anyone.

So you're saying a 3rd round pick on a guy that can't crack the lineup on a WR corps that's average at best is not a bad pick, but actually a good pick?

Hm.

Interesting logic.
Yeah, that's great logic, if you can find that logic in my post instead of pulling it out your rear, let me know.
 
Impossible to compare the two. Dan Carpenter is a pro bowler at his position. Turner isn't even a player at his position.

Though I admit it's probably more accurate to compare him to a kicker, because he's been a failure at WR so far. Can't compare him to Hartline...You know......A productive, contributing WR that was drafted in the same year as Turner?
dude, i was being facetious. if you can't see that, then i'm sorry. my point is, YOU CAN'T COMPARE HIM TO ANYONE. At least not anyone that has actually played, wasn't productive (pat white), and then say Turner is as bad as him. Do you get that now?
 
So Hartline...Who came right in and contributed is worse or better than Turner?

You know..Hartline....The guy at the same position that contributed to the tune of 506 yards?

I know Hartline's just a ST'r....But...You know....I like a productive WR to one that can't get activated.

Or are you doubting the ability of this FO to accurately activate the right players?
Turner was activated for a game. look it up.:up:
 
When I said "We had differing opinions on Turner"...I was referring to myself and the guys that drafted him...not you....
Is there a post with all your ranking prior to last years draft? Might help me respect you opinion on a player if you put it out there before the fact.


Stop complaining about me complaining about the pick...:lol:...they reached for the guy....and got what they deserved in return...that's the only way I know to put it...
We think they reached for Turner. No one knows where NFL men had him ranked. The men who do not do it for a living & have to answer for what they thought, had him ranked lower. They also had Hartline ranked lower too.



I think it's obvious that we have two different agendas here...and yours isn't going to work with me.....you're here tell me how much smarter the guys in Miami's front office are than the rest of us and to just sit down, shut up, and be patient....it's just not going to work on me....
No agenda here.

You sound like one of those guys who wants to give draft grade the day after or give a national title based on recruiting class. It does not work that way. Players grow, players learn. Some players develop, some do not.

Rome was not built in a day & neither is a NFL football player. Why is it so hard to grasp that a majority of players do not come out of college & hit the ground running so to speak?
 
patrick turner was a garbage prospect last year...it's brandon london redux...can't get separation in and out of his cuts and can't run away from anyone...i personally almost puked when the turner pick came on my tv screen...

an awful 3rd round pick just like the ramses barden one would have been had we taken him instead...as soon as the pads came on they all did nothing...
 
Two words...Derek Hagan..

Those really aren't words. Try using them in a sentence. If you can pull it off I have two more words for you...

Devin Aromashodu

He couldn't even make our roster the year we drafted him. At 6'2", 201 pounds and 4.35 speed do you think any of it had to do with physical ability? I doubt it. Perhaps he was just one of those guys who needed time to develop in the league. That, and a chance to play. Devin only made it on to the field this year because of injuries to other Bears receivers. Now it looks like he may enter camp as their #1.

By the way, he was projected as a 2nd or 3rd round pick. We stole him in the 7th. You have to give your drafted players a chance to develop before you start using picks on the same position.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=16941&draftyear=2006&genpos=WR
 
Third round pick and not being able to
play 1 offensive snap on a team with marginal wide receivers at best.

A big bodied WR is not expected to compete on special teams. It would be exceptional if he had been activated for special teams. If he could have shown himself to be a number one receiver, then yes he could have made the active roster. There was no way a rookie beats Bess or Camarillo as a possession receiver in his rookie year. That means he was in competition with Hartline. Hartline clearly won his spot. His not playing a snap means very little besides indicating that he is not a number 1 and not faster than Ginn.
 
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