Tannehill Release Times

[cornbred55]

I hate to create another Tannehill thread, but I felt that there was some good information to be shared and discussed. I'll preface this post by saying that none of the data is mine and all credit goes to the reddit user MiaCannon. His full post can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/miamidolph...ryan_tannehill_dropback_week_5_vs_ten/d8pqmsu

The bold numbers are the average of the three times I took. I also noted when he did a roll out, was sacked, hit, or anything worth of note.
Dropback 1: 2.60 (2.60, 2.60, 2.61)
Dropback 2 (Play action rollout): 2.52 (2.55, 2.56, 2.46)
Dropback 3 (Sack): 1.89 (1.89, 1.88, 1.89)
Dropback 4 (Hit): 2.51 (2.51, 2.52, 2.50)
Dropback 5: 1.83 (1.81, 1.85, 1.84)
Dropback 6: 1.93 (1.93, 1.84, 2.01)
Dropback 7: 2.50 (2.46, 2.45, 2.58)
Dropback 8: 1.6 (1.50, 1.69, 1.60)
Dropback 9: 1.33 (1.31, 1.31, 1.38)
Dropback 10 (Sack): 2.68 (2.73, 2.67, 2.64)
Dropback 11 (Hit): 1.91 (1.90, 1.90, 1.93)
Dropback 12: 2.45 (2.54, 2.40, 2.40)
Dropback 13: 1.41 (1.39, 1.49, 1.35)
Dropback 14 (INT): 2.60 (2.58, 2.59, 2.62)
Dropback 15 (Play action rollout): 3.23 (3.22, 3.26, 3.22)
Dropback 16: 1.12 (1.15, 1.08, 1.13)
Dropback 17 (Deep ball) : 2.07 (2.09, 2.07, 2.04)
Dropback 18: 1.06 (1.03, 1.07, 1.08)
Dropback 19: 1.58 (1.48, 1.62, 1.64)
Dropback 20 (Sacked): 1.90 (1.87, 1.93, 1.91)
Dropback 21: 2.16 (2.14, 2.20, 2.14)
Dropback 22 (Sacked): 3.77 (3.76, 3.85, 3.69)
Dropback 23 (Sacked): 2.33 (2.24, 2.36, 2.40)
Dropback 24: 1.80 (1.82, 1.72, 1.87)
Dropback 25 (Sacked): 2.03 (2.04, 2.10, 1.94)
Dropback 26: 2.36 (2.38, 2.34, 2.35)
Dropback 27 (Hit, Interception): 2.50 (2.51, 2.59, 2.41)

I will say that I am a Tannehill supporter, however I would also be okay with us drafting a QB if we finish with a top 5 pick. With that being said I think this data clearly shows that our oline is completely incompetent and it would be hard for any QB to succeed in this scenario, especially a rookie. Typically the average release for quarterbacks in the NFL range between 2.5-3.2 seconds. Looking at the above data you can see that 4/6 sacks occur in less than 2.5 seconds and 5/6 occur in less than 2.6 seconds. (including one sack in 1.89 seconds, which is completely absurd.) Additionally the interception where he was hit as he threw was in 2.5 seconds. You are looking at one sack occurring outside of a reasonable expectation for the fastest average release in the NFL. I think we need to face facts that this team is a long way away from competing and we are not in a position to set our QB's up for success, whether that is Tannehill or a rookie.

Edit: For those of you curious, the average release time for Tannehill in this 6 sack game was 2.136 seconds (assuming my math is correct)
Edit 2: It was pointed out to me that these are from timed from when Tannehill receives the ball not from when the ball is snapped.

 

[Natbonkilz]

Yeah, last game was not a good outing for those responsible for protecting the QB.

I, personally, find it hard to isolate Tannehill for evaluation when so many things go wrong during a play so I would like to see Tannehill play behind a solid line with good protection so I could compare Sacks, TDs, INTs, Completion, etc., but at this point that might mean Tannehill would be playing for a different team.

 

[mmansfield]

Those are sad sad numbers to be sure but a little strange he measured time in hand of Tannehill vs time of snap. Not that it makes a huge difference but it does make it harder to compare to other QB as most others measure from snap. Looks like it was to avoid shotgun vs under center difference but that is normally less than a third of a second.

 

[TheWozz]

Pfft, more facts...I don't want facts. I want Winz. And QB = Winz. Besides, elite qbs routinely release the ball in negative seconds. If Tannehill hasn't mastered the ability to complete passes before the ball is snapped in 5 years, he's a total loser. Bench him and bring in Andre Ware. Also, he should will time to stop and release time becomes meaningless. Good players warp the space time continuum.

Some will say I have some irrational hatred of 17. I want to be clear that though he beat me up weekly in high school, shot and ate my family dog, broke up my parents marriage and stole Lauren away from me, im basing my objective opinion only on fruitful years of playing football video games and fantasy football. In fact, last year I won my office league!

 

[cornbred55]

Those are sad sad numbers to be sure but a little strange he measured time in hand of Tannehill vs time of snap. Not that it makes a huge difference but it does make it harder to compare to other QB as most others measure from snap. Looks like it was to avoid shotgun vs under center difference but that is normally less than a third of a second.

I actually totally missed that fact, thanks for pointing it out. I'll make a note in the original post. It is an unusual way of timing the plays, but I think the point remains that even if we replace the QB these issues aren't just going to disappear.

 

[HoustonPhinFan]

Can you have a comparison of his numbers versus say Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers?

 

[russianbear]

again, i think a lot of our issues is that he stands still and allows the pressure to get to him in many cases.

Now, obviously, i'm not saying every sack or premature release because of pressure is avoidable by him dancing in the pocket...but i think after watching every snap of his over the last 4 seasons, i can comfortably say he does not buy time or evade pressure as well as the top qbs in this league.

now, if tannehill was behind an elite offensive line (say...oakland or dallas) he very well may be a top flight qb.....our issue is, the offensive line we have is not even decent.

so, how do we fix this? well, we can either get a qb that can make his own plays (russ, big ben), evade pressure (a rodg, luck), stiff-arm defenders (jameis, cam), etc etc etc....or we can get a top flight offensive line....so far, we've tried fixing the offensive line. four. years. in. a. row. it has yielded us consistently .500 or worse.

as a dolphins fan, i'm fed up of trying this same approach over and over again to no avail. it's nothing personal, and i believe in tannehill's arm talent, and his ability to understand the game between the ears...i'm jut not sure he's the right qb to play through the deficiencies of a less than great o line. that's my issue.

 

[fininpsl]

again, i think a lot of our issues is that he stands still and allows the pressure to get to him in many cases.

Now, obviously, i'm not saying every sack or premature release because of pressure is avoidable by him dancing in the pocket...but i think after watching every snap of his over the last 4 seasons, i can comfortably say he does not buy time or evade pressure as well as the top qbs in this league.

now, if tannehill was behind an elite offensive line (say...oakland or dallas) he very well may be a top flight qb.....our issue is, the offensive line we have is not even decent.

so, how do we fix this? well, we can either get a qb that can make his own plays (russ, big ben), evade pressure (a rodg, luck), stiff-arm defenders (jameis, cam), etc etc etc....or we can get a top flight offensive line....so far, we've tried fixing the offensive line. four. years. in. a. row. it has yielded us consistently .500 or worse.

as a dolphins fan, i'm fed up of trying this same approach over and over again to no avail. it's nothing personal, and i believe in tannehill's arm talent, and his ability to understand the game between the ears...i'm jut not sure he's the right qb to play through the deficiencies of a less than great o line. that's my issue.

On most plays a QB SHOULD be pretty much standing still and surveying the field for 3 seconds. He only held the ball longer than that on two plays in the analyzed action above. One of those two plays was a designed rollout, and the other probably is a bad Tannehill play (held the ball for 3.77 seconds). Until we can regularly give our offense 3 seconds to get a play off, it's hard to judge the QB or the other skill positions.

 

[THE OG CANEPHINS]

There are very few QBs who can overcome a line like ours and have moderate success. We have seen how bad Brady can look when he doesn't have time to throw. Don't get me wrong, RT is no Brady. However, Brady very much can look like RT behind this line.

We have seen RT when he has time and he can pick apart a defense. When he doesn't have that time the wheels come off and it can get real, bad real quick.

He needs to move the pocket, step up when available into it, and make quicker reads. However, the OL needs to give him 3 seconds to at least do that. There are more serviceable QBs in this league than elite. For RT to be serviceable, or in between that and elite, he needs the OL to do their job.

 

[Eesti]

This was supposed to be the year to REALLY evaluate Tannehill. The line was going to be fixed and the offensive system was going to cater to his best attributes. The o-line depth was going to be better because we had all these tackles. Still waiting on those things to happen in game 6 but go ahead and draw your conclusions anyway. The o-line starters have yet to play a game together. One player has made 100% of the snaps....Bushrod.

5 games in and....

Albert: missed 2 games
Pouncey: missed 4 games
Tunsil: missed 1 game
backup center: missed 2 games

James: regressed and benched
Two backups fired.

All of this happening while they're trying to implement a new offense. What could go wrong?

 

[THE OG CANEPHINS]

This was supposed to be the year to REALLY evaluate Tannehill. The line was going to be fixed and the offensive system was going to cater to his best attributes. The o-line depth was going to be better because we had all these tackles. Still waiting on those things to happen in game 6 but go ahead and draw your conclusions anyway. The o-line starters have yet to play a game together. One player has made 100% of the snaps....Bushrod.

5 games in and....

Albert: missed 2 games
Pouncey: missed 4 games
Tunsil: missed 1 game
backup center: missed 2 games

James: regressed and benched
Two backups fired.

All of this happening while they're trying to implement a new offense. What could go wrong?

But, Tannehill is the problem. LOL!

He might not be the solution but he isn't the problem.

 

[JTech194]

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!! Those are numbers from ONE GAME where the oline was riddled with Injuries... Where's the data from the LAST 4 YEARS, more specifically, the first 4 games? You can't take one game and make and say it's all on the line. The Tennesse game was the only game where the line was that bad.

Also, if you're only factoring in the time it takes him to stand in the pocket and survey the field without moving behind a injury riddled line then yes the number look dismal, but good QB's buy themselves time to survey the field by maneuvering in the backfield and around the pocket. Can't simply look at numbers and make blanket judgements. Gotta watch the game.

---------- Post added at 09:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 AM ----------

But, Tannehill is the problem. LOL!

He might not be the solution but he isn't the problem.

These kinds of statements baffle me. You can't look at any single player on this team and say "He and he alone is the problem" If you're not apart of the solution at the QB positing then you're apart of the problem.

 

[Lionstone]

Yeah, last game was not a good outing for those responsible for protecting the QB.

I, personally, find it hard to isolate Tannehill for evaluation when so many things go wrong during a play so I would like to see Tannehill play behind a solid line with good protection so I could compare Sacks, TDs, INTs, Completion, etc., but at this point that might mean Tannehill would be playing for a different team.

It is still possible to evaluate the QB. There are very few QBs that could from the original spot run an efficient offense with 2.1 being the average release time. There are some things he could do. He could get some positive yards with his legs. There were not many opportunities, but he did miss some opportunities to tuck it and go. He might have added 20 yards to the total. There were some opportunities for check downs and throw aways that would have limited the negative yardage and help convert. Finally, it is clear that he is not processing quickly enough. A new offense does contribute, but his processing ability is part of the problem.

 

[fininpsl]

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!! Those are numbers from ONE GAME where the oline was riddled with Injuries... Where's the data from the LAST 4 YEARS, more specifically, the first 4 games? You can't take one game and make and say it's all on the line. The Tennesse game was the only game where the line was that bad.

Also, if you're only factoring in the time it takes him to stand in the pocket and survey the field without moving behind a injury riddled line then yes the number look dismal, but good QB's buy themselves time to survey the field by maneuvering in the backfield and around the pocket. Can't simply look at numbers and make blanket judgements. Gotta watch the game.

---------- Post added at 09:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 AM ----------



These kinds of statements baffle me. You can't look at any single player on this team and say "He and he alone is the problem" If you're not apart of the solution at the QB positing then you're apart of the problem.

In the four year plus year period that Tannehill has been QB we have had a historically bad O-line. The whole time. There are scores of sack where there is absolutely no way to "buy time" like you are claiming. Just like our RB's have had nowhere to go for years. When you get o-line play as bad as we have had, your RB's and QB will not be able to perform. Pure and simple. We have never even had a run of the mill bad o-line. They have been at the very bottom of the league pretty much every year the last half decade.

 

[SabanHater]

I get it. Our line is absolutely terrible. And it's not all his fault by any stretch. Still doesn't excuse the fact that he never uses his legs to escape pressure.
He went in to that game knowing he was getting pressured. His first thought should be AVOID!!!! He doesn't do it.