Tannehill signs

[Playmaker76]

Purely speculative. Tannehill's agent works for Tannehill. If he did not want to hold out any longer, then he tells his agent to end it. If another player with the same agent wants to hold the line, then that is up to him.

I'm not going to argue it's speculation. I'm just parroting what current and former agents have said in the media in regards to this fiasco. They ALL basically said what Ireland did was not really worth it because it was something not really worth fighting for at the expense of deteriorating a relationship with Tanny's agent. They ALL are 100% sure this will affect Ireland in one way or another down the road. Is it speculation? Sure. The sun coming up tomorrow is pure speculation also.

 

[andyahs]

I'm not going to argue it's speculation. I'm just parroting what current and former agents have said in the media in regards to this fiasco. They ALL basically said what Ireland did was not really worth it because it was something not really worth fighting for at the expense of deteriorating a relationship with Tanny's agent. They ALL are 100% sure this will affect Ireland in one way or another down the road. Is it speculation? Sure. The sun coming up tomorrow is pure speculation also.

You have links to all these quotes?

The only drama I've seen is here on this forum.

 

[Playmaker76]

You have links to all these quotes?

I wish I did. Most of it was from the NFL channel on sirius xm radio. Awesome channel if you are a hardcore football fan BTW.

 

[Spesh]

So Ireland has a bad rep but Wake, Paul S and even Marshall did not have a problem with him signing contracts. Spesh you and I finally agree one out of 5 is not regular but the last time we were winning regularly we had a Shula running the ship and if you were arouind back then we had a lot of marginal talent on his teams but Shula coached them up. So now years later that is all forgotten and all the finger pointing is at Ireland. Look at history of this team and you will learn that a good coach like Shula could coach teams with a good QB, running backs and defenses to wins. So no I disagree with you that a great QB is a must for a team to win but a great coach sure helps. If you were around when Dan M was playing all the fans were complaining about the defense and runing game as the issue but the groceries being purchased back then were inferior to what we have on the field now. Ledt me ask you or anyone on this site how many first round busts have Ireland drafted? How many first round busts were drafted prior to Ireland? The Jason Allens, Eric Kummows, Ted Ginn, John Bosa type picks were much more common than any under Ireland.

None. But how many second round picks has he wasted? Almost every single one of them. And it would be 100% of them depending on your opinion of Sean Smith and Daniel Thomas, neither of whom are exactly endeared to this fanbase. Second round picks are the lifeblood of a team. They have the talent of first rounders without the cost. Yet we've pissed away that entire round for years on end. Im not going to praise the gospel of Ireland for hitting on picks that general managers are suppose to hit on. Im also not going to look the other way as Ireland fails on a yearly basis to hit on picks that general managers are suppose to hit on.

Just because we had some really crappy Gm's doesnt mean Ireland is brilliant by comparison. Two wrongs dont make a right. Ireland is slightly better then what we've had in the past. Which is undoubtly why we cant get a winning season now. We didnt win alot after Marino, we havent won alot with Ireland. Teams like the Lions go from 0-16 to playoff contenders in two seasons. Five years in with Ireland we are rebuilding for the second time. As i said before, color me unimpressed.

 

[Spesh]

People complain that Ireland should just give players the contracts they want, yet bash him when the team has limited cap space. Can't have it both ways. The contract Tannehill signed is more friendly to the team than the one Tannehill's camp wanted.

I find it funny that people think that Tannehill is not going to re-sign, or make some sort of major contract fuss 4-5 years down the road if the team is looking to keep him. Or that Tannehill's agent is going to start steering his other clients away from the team. lol People forget that this is a business and there is ALWAYS back and forth haggling during negotiations.

Eh? I cant recall a single thread praising Ireland for the signing of Marc Colombo. From the minute training camp started the majority of the posters on this thread knew he was going to fail. Of course, those of us who saw it coming were dismissed as arm-chair gm's, but what can ya do.

This contract is Miami Dolphins friendly if Tannehill is a complete failure. Your not going to hear us praising Ireland for saving a few bucks if he busted on the quarterback position.

 

[enigmatics]

You have links to all these quotes?

The only drama I've seen is here on this forum.

Of course he doesn't.

 

[CedarPhin]

Philip Rivers held out from San Diego till almost the end of TC. It didn't hurt him or SD any when it came to extend his deal in 2009.

 

[Nublar7]

Let me ask you a question. If you bought a car from dealership A and had a horrible experience and felt the dealer wasn't being fair to you and was trying to force fees upon you that no other dealership tried to charge, would you recommend someone you care about to that dealership if they asked you they are not sure whether to go to dealership A, B, or C for their car purchase?

What bothers me is that Ireland wasn't even fighting for something significant. It was petty stuff that no other signed top 10 pick had agreed to. Haggling for peanuts basically. Obviously the agent caved in and Ireland got what he wanted but put yourself in the agents position now. Now he has to sell himself to future clients and he has to explain to them why he was the only agent with a top 10 draft pick that gave in to the "offset language." I'm sure some type of grudge now exists between him and Ireland.

If the next closest dealership is almost 5 hours away or farther, I probably wouldn't go all the way to them. Not really a great example because this isn't about buying a car it is about the area you live in. If you lived in one place for at least four years and liked it, would you pick up and leave out of spite because of a small disagreement year's ago?

 

[Zounds]

So if Tannehill's agent has a free agent next year and that player is not sure whether to pick the Dolphins or a couple other teams and wants to get his agents advice you actually think the agent won't steer him away from Miami a little? There is a good chance the agent is going to lose several draft prospects as clients next year because of this fiasco, maybe even a top prospect. The agent now has to work extra hard to convince top prospects to hire him now and he will probably lose a major prospect because of this. Don't think for a second he will forget this. That's how these guys minds work. So we can try to act all high and mighty that Ireland "won" the deal but in reality he won at checkers. I'd prefer if he was more of a chess player. :)

So you are in favor of giving Tannehill a better deal so the other 20 players that have Pat Dye as their agent might consider playing in Miami if they become a free agent? Sounds like an Al Davis or Dan Snyder move.

 

[phintim]

None. But how many second round picks has he wasted? Almost every single one of them. And it would be 100% of them depending on your opinion of Sean Smith and Daniel Thomas, neither of whom are exactly endeared to this fanbase. Second round picks are the lifeblood of a team. They have the talent of first rounders without the cost. Yet we've pissed away that entire round for years on end. Im not going to praise the gospel of Ireland for hitting on picks that general managers are suppose to hit on. Im also not going to look the other way as Ireland fails on a yearly basis to hit on picks that general managers are suppose to hit on.

Just because we had some really crappy Gm's doesnt mean Ireland is brilliant by comparison. Two wrongs dont make a right. Ireland is slightly better then what we've had in the past. Which is undoubtly why we cant get a winning season now. We didnt win alot after Marino, we havent won alot with Ireland. Teams like the Lions go from 0-16 to playoff contenders in two seasons. Five years in with Ireland we are rebuilding for the second time. As i said before, color me unimpressed.

"Just because we had some really crappy Gm's doesnt mean Ireland is brilliant by comparison". Really? Teams like the Lions go from 0-16 to playoff contenders in two seasons. All those first round picks the Lions got wrong thats fairly hard to do I guess it had nothing to do with the coaches. 49ers turn it around under a rookie coach who everyone ranks and raves about and Ireland gets bashed for not luring him here instead. Funny how the 49ers GM does not get any of that credit for the 49ers sucess.
By the way you missed Msi as one of the 2nd round picks along with the 2 second rounder we gave up for Marshall. Yea Pat White was a big big miss, Phillip Merling was big miss and Henne is still playing and was a miss because those players are not on the team. Notice that they were in Irelands first 2 drafts. Marshall is an all Pro for those 2 2nd round picks but the coaching staff could not handle the guy so there you are. You have a All Pro WR for 2 2nd picks, a starting CB, starting LB, 2nd string RB behind Bush and J Martin this year that most hail as the best pick in our draft. Just another way of lookin at it Spesh.

 

[where's th'fish]

Ok, crazy people:

1) We still don't know if the "concessions" the Dolphins made were just a word thrown in to keep Tanny's agent from losing face, or if they were, like ck suggested, real concessions so that the player actually won the contract negotiation.

2) Tanny's gonna hold a grudge? So right now he's going "darn it, WHEN the Dolphins cut me I won't make as much money!" No. He'll hold a grudge IF and when he gets cut. Right now he's got to be thinking it won't matter anyway.

3) As a GM you can't be afraid to say no for fear that the agent won't like you anymore. You think other NFL GMs are saying "Ireland, the fool! He got what we all wanted to get, but he made an agent mad! He will pay the price of his daring!"

4) Many other first rounders accepted offset language. Also, other first rounders remain unsigned. So it's not like the Dolphins were the ONLY team out there demanding and/or getting offset language.

5) If future FAs stay away from Miami, it's because of the state of the franchise, nothing else, nothing more. Even so, money is still number 1. We pay the best money, chances are we get the player.

 

[Spesh]

"Just because we had some really crappy Gm's doesnt mean Ireland is brilliant by comparison". Really? Teams like the Lions go from 0-16 to playoff contenders in two seasons. All those first round picks the Lions got wrong thats fairly hard to do I guess it had nothing to do with the coaches. 49ers turn it around under a rookie coach who everyone ranks and raves about and Ireland gets bashed for not luring him here instead. Funny how the 49ers GM does not get any of that credit for the 49ers sucess.
By the way you missed Msi as one of the 2nd round picks along with the 2 second rounder we gave up for Marshall. Yea Pat White was a big big miss, Phillip Merling was big miss and Henne is still playing and was a miss because those players are not on the team. Notice that they were in Irelands first 2 drafts. Marshall is an all Pro for those 2 2nd round picks but the coaching staff could not handle the guy so there you are. You have a All Pro WR for 2 2nd picks, a starting CB, starting LB, 2nd string RB behind Bush and J Martin this year that most hail as the best pick in our draft. Just another way of lookin at it Spesh.

And Marshall was a two year rental, which we got far less in return for him. Second round picks are NOT supposed to be used for a single year of production. They are supposed to be good players that can bring in high quality production for at least 1 contract, if not two or three. Every aspect of the Marshall trade was a failure. We traded alot for him and threw him to the curb for next to nothing. How in gods name can Ireland be praised for that?
And what has Misi done to deserve non-bust status? We're now being forced to change his position because his production as a passrusher was lacking. If Karlos Dansby goes back to outside linebacker(which he played in Arizona) then Misi is toast. Right now Misi is only hanging in there because we have two good linebackers and a blank third spot.

I think we have a fundamental difference in what second round picks are used for. The Eagles nab DeSean Jackson and LeSean McCoy with their second round picks, building blocks for their team. The Texans grab Conner Barwin and Ben Tate, two extremely productive players who routinely make impacts for their team. Even the BENGALS have figured it out, grabbing Carlos Dunlap and Andy Dalton, productive and rookie of the year quality players. And yet Miami fans are drooling because we rented a wide receiver who is no longer on the team, drafted a back up running back, and have held onto a player who is switching positions to try and stay on the team? How comfortable this fanbase has gotten with mediocrity. How content we've gotten with subpar results.

Oh, and Martin Mayhew has been the Lions GM since 2009. How successful would Jim Schwartz(a fine coach in his own right) be without Matthew Stafford, Brandon Pettigrew, or Ndamukong Suh? How about missing productive or talented players such as Lious Delmas, Javhid Best(whose shown extreme talent when not injured), and Titus Young? Im guessing Schwartz wouldnt have carried that team to the playoffs without those players. Hell, im guessing he wouldnt have won 8 games total without those players.
As for the "the media gives Jim Harbaugh credit!", i'll go with a Mark Twain quote: "It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them." If no one wants to credit Trent Baalke for building a sound team, then people do Baalke a disservice. But its even worse that people give honors to Ireland when he clearly does not deserve them.

 

[NY8123]

Ok, crazy people:

1) We still don't know if the "concessions" the Dolphins made were just a word thrown in to keep Tanny's agent from losing face, or if they were, like ck suggested, real concessions so that the player actually won the contract negotiation.

2) Tanny's gonna hold a grudge? So right now he's going "darn it, WHEN the Dolphins cut me I won't make as much money!" No. He'll hold a grudge IF and when he gets cut. Right now he's got to be thinking it won't matter anyway.

3) As a GM you can't be afraid to say no for fear that the agent won't like you anymore. You think other NFL GMs are saying "Ireland, the fool! He got what we all wanted to get, but he made an agent mad! He will pay the price of his daring!"

4) Many other first rounders accepted offset language. Also, other first rounders remain unsigned. So it's not like the Dolphins were the ONLY team out there demanding and/or getting offset language.

5) If future FAs stay away from Miami, it's because of the state of the franchise, nothing else, nothing more. Even so, money is still number 1. We pay the best money, chances are we get the player.

Honestly it doesn't matter because the player didn't "win" anything. The CBA won the battle before the rookie negotiations even started this season. So this notion that a incoming rookie won a contract battle is ridiculous. I also think it was ridiculous with the new CBA in play that the Miami front office was playing fiddle **** around with Tannehill's contract.

But alas.......it is signed and now I don't care anymore from this point on all I care about is whether or not Tannehill stops the QB carousel in Miami.

 

[phintim]

And Marshall was a two year rental, which we got far less in return for him. Second round picks are NOT supposed to be used for a single year of production. They are supposed to be good players that can bring in high quality production for at least 1 contract, if not two or three. Every aspect of the Marshall trade was a failure. We traded alot for him and threw him to the curb for next to nothing. How in gods name can Ireland be praised for that?
And what has Misi done to deserve non-bust status? We're now being forced to change his position because his production as a passrusher was lacking. If Karlos Dansby goes back to outside linebacker(which he played in Arizona) then Misi is toast. Right now Misi is only hanging in there because we have two good linebackers and a blank third spot.

I think we have a fundamental difference in what second round picks are used for. The Eagles nab DeSean Jackson and LeSean McCoy with their second round picks, building blocks for their team. The Texans grab Conner Barwin and Ben Tate, two extremely productive players who routinely make impacts for their team. Even the BENGALS have figured it out, grabbing Carlos Dunlap and Andy Dalton, productive and rookie of the year quality players. And yet Miami fans are drooling because we rented a wide receiver who is no longer on the team, drafted a back up running back, and have held onto a player who is switching positions to try and stay on the team? How comfortable this fanbase has gotten with mediocrity. How content we've gotten with subpar results.

Oh, and Martin Mayhew has been the Lions GM since 2009. How successful would Jim Schwartz(a fine coach in his own right) be without Matthew Stafford, Brandon Pettigrew, or Ndamukong Suh? How about missing productive or talented players such as Lious Delmas, Javhid Best(whose shown extreme talent when not injured), and Titus Young? Im guessing Schwartz wouldnt have carried that team to the playoffs without those players. Hell, im guessing he wouldnt have won 8 games total without those players.
As for the "the media gives Jim Harbaugh credit!", i'll go with a Mark Twain quote: "It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them." If no one wants to credit Trent Baalke for building a sound team, then people do Baalke a disservice. But its even worse that people give honors to Ireland when he clearly does not deserve them.

Spech IMO you and others are missing the point about Ireland and are to busy throwing him under the bus currently to give the guy a chance. Irelands job is managing the cap and finding talend for the coaches of the Dolphins.
Signing these players is a poker game and the idea is to get the best talent at the best price. In reviewing our cap space since Ireland came on board he manages the cap farily well not overspending to hurt us in future years and at the same time usaully spending the cap space for the current year right up to the limit. Thats should be telling us he is trying to win now and later.
It is interesting how much Ireland gets blasted by his puntiffs about his ability to evalutate talent. Take Jim Harbaugh last year where everybody creamed him and Ross for pursuing the guy and Harbaugh choosing the 49ers over the Phins. There are 32 teams out there and probably half of them could have used Harbaugh but only 2 were really pursuing the guy the 49ers and phins. The phins get criticized for pursueing Harbaugh and getting turned down by Harbaugh. Ireland can only make an offere it is up to the coach to accept the offer. Similiar thing with Fisher and Manning Ireland did not sit on the sidelines he "probably" twisted Marinio arm just to get the opportunity to make a pitch to Manning. Fans blast Ireland with the excuse that he is one of the reasons Manning would not play here but even if that is true what do you really expect Ireland to do tell Manning if you sign I will resign? Come on. Moving on to Fisher he publicly endorsed Ireland stating he would hire the guy if Ireland was available.
Lets move back to draft where you and others just kill Ireland. Lets take last years draft when Ireland took Daniel Thomas over Ryan Mallett for instance. Ryann Mallett was taken at the top of the 3rd round and Daniel Thomas was taken at the bottom half of the second round. It was apparent at least to me that going into last years draft that running back was a priority going into the draft. The Dolphins had jettisioned Cobbs, Brown and Williams so there was a huge void. Daniel Thomas was rated by basically every scout magazine out there as one of the top 5 running backs in last years drafts. We all know that these draft publications are never dead on but when they all basically rate a player the same there is a reason. Miami was with out a 2nd round pick due to the Marshall trade 2 years earlier. Ireland stood pat in the draft until four of those five backs were chosen before he traded from the third round into the second for Daniel Thomas. Daniel Thomas fact outplayed all of those running backs last year except Mark Ingram who was taken in the first round and Mark Ingram was actually being outplayed by DT early in the year before DT hurt his hamstring. After last years draft Ireland publicly admited he was attempting to trade back up into the top of round three to select Ryann Mallet. There were just 2 teams interested in taking Ryann Mallet at the top of round 3 last year and that was the Dolphins and the Patriots.
My point here is that Ireland does recognize talent better than most and attempts to go after it.
IMO Ireland does get critized fairly in some cases for his methods but at the same time he get critized unfairly for the grocery list. In terms of Irelands methods I beleive we are witinessing a evolution of those methods and the guy is improving. Marshall upon exiting the phins this year praised Ireland and everyone knows that Marshall is very outspoken in anything he dislikes. Ryann T. after all the fuss here about his holding out about his contract etc. has said nor done nothing to allude he is not a happy camper and in fact so far has come into camp ahead of expectations.
Lets talk more about the draft and let me a least share a theory with you and only time will tell if I am cource. Up until this years draft plotting the players and postions they would be drafted by the phins was not so hard. This year draft for example was much harder to pegg and at least the Dolphins fans afterward for the most part applauded it much more favorably than drafts in the past. In fact it was alluded by some fans on this site that this years draft improvement could be due to the presense of Philbin. You know what I actually agree with that theory and let me tell you why. Philbin gave Ireland and his gang of merry scouts a new grocery list, not the Tony Sporano grocery lsit. The difference in the list was the ingredents. Tony's list consisted of big beefy guys whose talent was measure in size as much as talent on the field plus you always had to include some heavy footed offensive lineman as a priority. Philbins list was different and probably afforded Ireland a little flexibility in his shopping.
You pointed out that the lions after spending years and years and years at the bottom of the NFL cellar picking at the very top to the draft have just come around to respectability with a new GM and coach. Good point.
My counter point to you Ireland out GM did not get to choose his coach until this year he was appoint Tony Sporano as the coach by Parcells and you and I have know idea if Ireland would have chosen Tony if the choice was soley his.
I earlier mentioned that IMO we are witnessing a evolution of Jeff Ireland the GM. I offer you his first 2 years with the phins where mega bucks were spent on big beefy free agents that went bust in the night. IMO oppinion Parcells probably had his hand in those decisions. Since then Dansby, Burnett and Marshall have been huge improvements in terms of FA signing. Throw Moore in there also. IMO we have seen some of Ireland genius in the lower rounds of the drafts, along with college FA and canadian free agents. Ireland gets a free hand when choosing this talent which is why he shines in this area. Cartpenter, Bess and Wake are nice examples.
By the way we basically in the Marshall trade we got 2 pro bowl type years from the reciever just what we asked for plus 2 3rd round picks back in return. The Marshall experiment failed not Irelands fault either. He was given the task to sign a diva reciever. Ireland found one as was his assigned task. It was the coaches Tony S who underestimated his ability to keep Marshall under control. Philbin does not even want to try. DO YOU really believe with out void of talent at the WR position that Philbin just walked into his office the first day and said I don't want Marshall anymore lets dump the guy because he just not any good. Hell no and if Philbin want Marshall he would still be on this team instead of in Chicago.

 

[Spesh]

Spech IMO you and others are missing the point about Ireland and are to busy throwing him under the bus currently to give the guy a chance. Irelands job is managing the cap and finding talend for the coaches of the Dolphins.

This post was so long and full of revisionist history that i doubt ill be able to wade through it all, but ill give it a go:
1) Our cap situation is horrific. It got this way because Ireland signed bad players to big contracts, such as Jake Grove and Gibril Wilson. According to your own estimates of Ireland's job, he failed.
2) No one insulted us over chasing Harbaugh. They insulted us over chasing Harbaugh while we had a head coach. Huge difference, and we were correctly insulted for it. Could other teams have used Harbaugh? Absolutely, but they already had head coaches. We were the ones that decided to overlook that fact.
3) How am i suppose to defend a statement about what Ireland "probably" did behind the scenes with Marino? You have no absolutely no proof. Id counter that it was Ross that "probably" talked to Marino while Ireland was playing with a ball of yarn.
4) Fisher said he would sign here if an independent third party would be available to appeal Ireland and his disagreements. Ireland and Ross refused that reasonable request. And anyways, Fisher is a coach who had 6 winning season out of 16. Hardly convincing.
5) DeMarco Murray had a bigger impact then Daniel Thomas. Ireland wiffed that pick. I could really care less how Thomas was ranked in magazines, its Irelands job to look past the cover on the newstand and make more informed decisions. Though it wouldnt surprise me if thats all he did. Ireland was responsibile for allowing Brown, Williams, etc, to leave. Why should i give him credit for failing to fix a hole he created in the first place?
6) Ireland had a chance to draft Mallet. He decided not to. If he tried and failed, thats still a failure. He passes on talent then tries to scramble to go get it again and fails. Notice the reoccuring theme? Failure at his job.
7) Philbin, like Sparano, work for Ireland. Not the other way around. Its Irelands job to get talented players no matter what. This scheme (il)logic that people keep harping on is overrated to the extreme. Had Ireland provided more talent the first time around, perhaps he wouldnt be forced to change the scheme. How about we get players that arent limited to a single scheme and can be productive no matter what the offense or defense is at that particular moment? Mind blowing, i know.
8) Ireland did not choose Sparano. But Ireland didnt have to take this job. He knew Sparano was the front runner. He choose to work with him. If he didnt like it, he could have stayed with the Cowboys and waited for another chance.
9) Aaaaaaaand, now its Parcells fault for our crap free agency signings. Well, didnt take long to get to this point. Ireland could have quit at any point if Parcells was so overbearing. Signing Marshall and Dansby were absolute no brainers. They had proven to be pro-bowl quality players for their previous teams and were up for the largest contracts available for each of their positions. Color me unimpressed that Ireland figured out they were good players. Oh, and if Ireland deserves so much credit for signing those guys, he also deserves criticism for throwing them out. Moore was not a top quality free agent. He played a few games is about to ride the bench again. Hardly franchise changing signing there.
10) Ireland knew of Marshalls past. EVERYONE in the league knew of Marshalls past. Even if the league kept it a secret(read: they did the opposite), we had inside knowledge with Mike Nolan on the staff. It is his fault it didnt work out. He either should have seen this coming or he should have been willing to work through it. He decided to do neither and now we are out draft picks. But hey, they were only second round picks, and we all have witnessed how Ireland spends those.

So, Parcells and Sparanos fault for basically everything bad thats happened over the past few years and even if it was Irelands fault he really did try hard! Got it. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Those are the 3 reasons why this team cant get a winning season. Guess what: there are general managers out there who dont need half a decade and multiple coaching hires to get a winning product on the field, perhaps we should hire them. And im guessing they are even open to being accountable for their mistakes. Shocking.