*** Tannehill's Comeback Mega Thread *** | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

*** Tannehill's Comeback Mega Thread ***

Just imagine if we spent as much time analyzing LB play, or the lack of? How many turnovers did we get? The OL has been ranked near bottom of the league his whole time here.

I’m not sure why some of you aren’t half as critical about the rest of the roster. It’s like you only want Ryan to play better and we will magically be a perennial playoff contender.

Which teams do you think this defense could dominate against? Or better yet control for any meaningful stretches.
 
At this point, Sticking with Tannehill is like punting on 4th and 1 at the 50 yard line with the game on the line.....in our home stadium.

He's a safe play but dang, I'm tired of playing it safe and being a 7-9 / 8-8 team with Tannehill. He may not be part of the problem but he hasnt proved to be part of the solution either like other QBs have shown.

This franchise has been starving for an edge and some kind of identity and Tannehill hasnt proved to be that guy.
 
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Albert Romano said:
Just imagine if we spent as much time analyzing LB play, or the lack of? How many turnovers did we get? The OL has been ranked near bottom of the league his whole time here.

I’m not sure why some of you aren’t half as critical about the rest of the roster. It’s like you only want Ryan to play better and we will magically be a perennial playoff contender.

Which teams do you think this defense could dominate against? Or better yet control for any meaningful stretches.
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Because most of our entire roster is average to below average players so there is no denying or arguing that. We need help everywhere. But how dare anyone for questioning why our QB position hasnt changed with average to below average results.
 
Blake the great said:
Because most of our entire roster is average to below average players so there is no denying or arguing that. We need help everywhere. But how dare anyone for questioning why our QB position hasnt changed with average to below average results.
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It's not that it hasn't been questioned- it has - and to Gase himself multiple times and the FO (as reported by Mando several times) but in their opinion the team and roster itself is most responsible for what we see on Sunday's. This is the hand they are playing, if Joe P was still around probably not, will Gase and FO be proven right in the end? We shall see, if not we all know what's next.
 
Blake the great said:
Because most of our entire roster is average to below average players so there is no denying or arguing that. We need help everywhere. But how dare anyone for questioning why our QB position hasnt changed with average to below average results.
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Our roster is and has been mostly trash despite the fact we're not wasting resources on QBs constantly like some people here would like us to. Imagine if we were. We would probably still have nobody better than Tannehill, and the rest of the team would be even worse. Then what happens when we finally find a great QB? They either get ruined by the trash team they're forced to try and carry (Luck is a perfect example of this may he rest in peace) or they manage to survive but waste the rest of their career waiting for the dumbasses that run our organization to build a proper team for them.
 
Blake the great said:
I want to believe but I've been disappointed and let down way too often to get my hopes up. This is a completely different group of guys than the 2016 playoff team so I dont know what to expect. At some point it starts to feel like will this team ever be good enough for Tannehill? And if it ever reaches to that point we probably would be fine with who ever at QB a la Nick Foles and Case Keenum.
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Every year is a new year for every team.

Consistency is the end result of good management. A players consistency varies over their career. It is management and their decisions as to who plays and coaches that establishes long term consistency. If you want to have any realistic idea of what each new year holds, look at who was brought in and who was let go. The Patriots have been very consistent over the last decade and so have the Steelers. They have consistently let good players go and brought in effective replacements as a matter of routine. This kind of performance pays dividends over the long hall in terms of consistency.

Look at How the Dolphins have performed since hiring Adam Gase.

1) For 1 out of the last 2 years we made the playoffs. This is a sign they hired a good Head Coach
2) We played through a difficult season loosing three key players just before or during the first three games. Management brought in emergency replacements off the scrap heap of available players and were even then, just a game or two away from making the playoffs. The teams play wasn't very consistent, but after BEATING the Patriots in a convincing manor the Dolphins showed their potential. Their play was exceptional by any meaningful standard. This game shows the real potential this team had, even with a retired QB and players whose poor character was becoming apparent. This last season was a litmus test for players and coaches.
3) Management took advantage of what they saw of how players and coaches performed under an unusually stressful season and replaced problematic players (attitude, not knowing assignments, giving up and unsustainable pay levels for players; and unprepared assignment knowledge accredited to their position coaches) and based on that made some critical removals.
5) Management upgraded the coaching staff by replacing nearly 1/2 of the coaches. This can be considered a combination of replacing some poor coaches and the continuation of the development of the coaching staff for a new Head Coach. At this point the entire coaching staff should now be in line with coach Gases' operational plan.
4) Management maintained the development of draftees form the last two years drafts, with observed credible performance by many new players on the field during difficult circumstances (Hurricane, exceptional amounts of travel time & limited practices).
5) Management continued to have a focused and effective draft and free agency hiring's this year.

The result of all this will be a significantly improved team that is better balanced in capability on Offense and Defense; improved level of depth on both offense and defense and particularly in offensive capability with an improved arsenal of receivers, running backs. Most importantly, we now have an offensive line with improvements in player capability, depth and the probability of consistent availability of personnel for both play and practice.

There is no reason I can see for not making the playoffs this year.
 
Blake the great said:
Because most of our entire roster is average to below average players so there is no denying or arguing that. We need help everywhere. But how dare anyone for questioning why our QB position hasnt changed with average to below average results.
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You quote this as a fact that everyone accepts rather than more accurately as your opinion.

Mine is that an argument can be made that over his last 3 seasons, given what Tannehill had to work with and through, that he's at worst an average and possibly a better than average QB.

Cases in point:
2016, despite learning a new system he put up an above average 8-5 record and while doing so had the 2nd or 3rd most accurate long ball percentage and 4th best QBR from a clean pocket. Those are top 10 if not elite metrics. Add to that once Gase's system kicked in he put up friggin "Scoreboard" 7-1 with a bunch of measureables in the top 10 or even elite categories. So by most objective assessments he was above average

2015: He did regress, there's no question about it. But then again he had the 2nd worst OL , he was battered and bruised and pissing blood. Yes, he regressed 2 games in 2015, but last season Dak Prescott regressed 4 games and in '13 and '14 Matt Ryan regressed to 10 and 22 before again finding his sea legs.

2014: despite the worst OL in the league and throwing to Landry, which was fine but having to depend on ****nut Mike Wallace who wouldn't contest jump balls, Harline, Clay and the like, Tannehill went 8-8. Now that's an "average" outcome but considering he did it with the worst OL in the league and assets not named Julio, TY Hilton, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, etc... it's damn impressive and an argument can be made that the average results took above average effort.

So over the last 3 years, IMO Tannehill was above average in 2 and slightly below average in the middle one. To me that's a far cry from "below average" !!!!!!
 
I've held the belief since 2013 that Ryan Tannehill is a good quarterback surrounded by garbage. I continue to hold that belief. We'll see in 2018, if his knee is fine, what happens. Since these threads are circular and often devolved into multiple parties just rehashing the same tired arguments over and over again, I'll just say this:

1. The Dolphins haven't had a great or even good defense since probably 2008. Maybe with the exception of the brief time that Reshad Jones and IAQ were healthy and on the field together -- the defense played well during that period -- It's certainly been deteriorating since he got here, with the loss of Karlos Dansby and the perennial dumpster fire we trot out at LB. Secondary problems have also plagued the team.

2. The offensive line has not been bad. It has been terrible. We saw the best performance out of our OL during Tannehill's tenure in 2012 (While not great, it was acceptable until Jake Long got hurt), and in 2016 after Adam Gase finally cut the dead weight of Turner/Thomas. Not surprisingly, after Gase made drastic changes to the OL personnel in 2016, the team went on a tear and won 9 out of the final 11 games.

I mean, how do you go back and watch 2013 game film with a straight face making these kind of arguments? Tyson Clabo and Jon Martin were so bad I still intensely dislike both of them to this day. Remember Steve Ross pulling Jeff Ireland and Joe Philbin aside after the Ravens game and telling them "DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE TACKLES OR YOU'RE BOTH FIRED?" And then they went and traded with Baltimore for Bryant McKinnie... a guy who had just been determined to be so bad that they had to trade for tackle Eugene Monroe, and McKinnie was STILL a huge upgrade over Jon Martin? McKinnie, like MANY Dolphins offensive players who have been here since 2012, then promptly retired after the season because HE WAS COMPLETELY WASHED UP AND COULDN'T PLAY ANYMORE.

It's the QB's fault he couldn't get more out of that?

3. The other skill players on offense. Mike Wallace never came close to matching again the production he had in Miami in 2014. Brian Hartline lasted maybe one more season in which he did basically nothing, then retired. Charles Clay -- one of the few legitimately good pieces we've had -- is currently doing jack **** in Buffalo. Other starting skill players? Legedu Naanee? Anthony Armstrong? Jordan Cameron? Julius Thomas? Davone Bess? Bueller? Anyone? Anyone? Even the guys I like, like Dion Sims, are doing absolutely NOTHING. Lamar Miller's career imploded after he signed with the Texans.

Unless you count blocking specialist Anthony Fasano, the ONE example of success we can find with a player who left Miami is Rishard Matthews. He's done well for himself in Tennessee. That shouldn't be a surprise, before he got hurt in 2015 he was the team's #2 receiving target and Tannehill had something obscene like a 120 passer rating when going to him. Guy's good, and even though we drafted him we somehow managed to get just one year of production out of him. Unbelievable. That leads me to...

4. Coaching. Since I know that some people get VERY upset when I criticize Mike Sherman or Bill Lazor, let's just talk about that offensive staff under Joe Philbin in general. They got mad at Rishard Matthews, and the story I heard was that he went out to his car during halftime of a pre-season game or something, and sat him in the doghouse for THREE YEARS because of that. Kenny Stills arrived in Miami in 2015 and I remember having arguments with people in the 2016 pre-season about whether or not he should be cut. Since Adam Gase arrived, does anyone still think he should be cut? Anybody? Again, the coaching staff was a group of incompetent buffoons who did not know how to use personnel.

Remember in 2015 when they had the corpse of Greg Jennings -- oh man, I actually forgot Greg Jennings in the above part -- and put him in the lineup in place of Devante Parker, who was nursing an injury? Then Remember when they had 38 year old Jennings running fades and other plays that were put in for Parker? They didn't even bother to adjust anything, they were like "Yeah, screw it, have Jennings go up for a jump ball."

Watch the play on the field. The quarterback is not the problem. The quarterback was out there trying to carry DEAD ASS WEIGHT and running into problems like the fact that it's not physically possible to catch your own damn passes. After watching 14 games of Jay Cutler you guys really still think the QB is the problem? lmao

Is Wingfield around and posting today? Get him in here. Have him post some .gifs of clutch dimes on third down or in the red zone that were straight up DROPPED over the past five years. Get a montage going. It'll sicken you.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
I've held the belief since 2013 that Ryan Tannehill is a good quarterback surrounded by garbage. I continue to hold that belief. We'll see in 2018, if his knee is fine, what happens. Since these threads are circular and often devolved into multiple parties just rehashing the same tired arguments over and over again, I'll just say this:

1. The Dolphins haven't had a great or even good defense since probably 2008. Maybe with the exception of the brief time that Reshad Jones and IAQ were healthy and on the field together -- the defense played well during that period -- It's certainly been deteriorating since he got here, with the loss of Karlos Dansby and the perennial dumpster fire we trot out at LB. Secondary problems have also plagued the team.

2. The offensive line has not been bad. It has been terrible. We saw the best performance out of our OL during Tannehill's tenure in 2012 (While not great, it was acceptable until Jake Long got hurt), and in 2016 after Adam Gase finally cut the dead weight of Turner/Thomas. Not surprisingly, after Gase made drastic changes to the OL personnel in 2016, the team went on a tear and won 9 out of the final 11 games.

I mean, how do you go back and watch 2013 game film with a straight face making these kind of arguments? Tyson Clabo and Jon Martin were so bad I still intensely dislike both of them to this day. Remember Steve Ross pulling Jeff Ireland and Joe Philbin aside after the Ravens game and telling them "DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE TACKLES OR YOU'RE BOTH FIRED?" And then they went and traded with Baltimore for Bryant McKinnie... a guy who had just been determined to be so bad that they had to trade for tackle Eugene Monroe, and McKinnie was STILL a huge upgrade over Jon Martin? McKinnie, like MANY Dolphins offensive players who have been here since 2012, then promptly retired after the season because HE WAS COMPLETELY WASHED UP AND COULDN'T PLAY ANYMORE.

It's the QB's fault he couldn't get more out of that?

3. The other skill players on offense. Mike Wallace never came close to matching again the production he had in Miami in 2014. Brian Hartline lasted maybe one more season in which he did basically nothing, then retired. Charles Clay -- one of the few legitimately good pieces we've had -- is currently doing jack **** in Buffalo. Other starting skill players? Legedu Naanee? Anthony Armstrong? Jordan Cameron? Julius Thomas? Davone Bess? Bueller? Anyone? Anyone? Even the guys I like, like Dion Sims, are doing absolutely NOTHING. Lamar Miller's career imploded after he signed with the Texans.

Unless you count blocking specialist Anthony Fasano, the ONE example of success we can find with a player who left Miami is Rishard Matthews. He's done well for himself in Tennessee. That shouldn't be a surprise, before he got hurt in 2015 he was the team's #2 receiving target and Tannehill had something obscene like a 120 passer rating when going to him. Guy's good, and even though we drafted him we somehow managed to get just one year of production out of him. Unbelievable. That leads me to...

4. Coaching. Since I know that some people get VERY upset when I criticize Mike Sherman or Bill Lazor, let's just talk about that offensive staff under Joe Philbin in general. They got mad at Rishard Matthews, and the story I heard was that he went out to his car during halftime of a pre-season game or something, and sat him in the doghouse for THREE YEARS because of that. Kenny Stills arrived in Miami in 2015 and I remember having arguments with people in the 2016 pre-season about whether or not he should be cut. Since Adam Gase arrived, does anyone still think he should be cut? Anybody? Again, the coaching staff was a group of incompetent buffoons who did not know how to use personnel.

Remember in 2015 when they had the corpse of Greg Jennings -- oh man, I actually forgot Greg Jennings in the above part -- and put him in the lineup in place of Devante Parker, who was nursing an injury? Then Remember when they had 38 year old Jennings running fades and other plays that were put in for Parker? They didn't even bother to adjust anything, they were like "Yeah, screw it, have Jennings go up for a jump ball."

Watch the play on the field. The quarterback is not the problem. The quarterback was out there trying to carry DEAD *** WEIGHT and running into problems like the fact that it's not physically possible to catch your own damn passes. After watching 14 games of Jay Cutler you guys really still think the QB is the problem? lmao

Is Wingfield around and posting today? Get him in here. Have him post some .gifs of clutch dimes on third down or in the red zone that were straight up DROPPED over the past five years. Get a montage going. It'll sicken you.
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Can this somehow be a sticky or a post anyone is required to read before posting anything on Ryan Tannehill?
 
dnespins said:
i think its great that the tannehill fanclub will tell anyone that will listen, if we just surround ryan with 10 probowlers then we'll see what he can really be. but if that were the case, what we'd see is we need a better quarterback.
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Kindly point out even a single post that says this.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
I've held the belief since 2013 that Ryan Tannehill is a good quarterback surrounded by garbage. I continue to hold that belief. We'll see in 2018, if his knee is fine, what happens. Since these threads are circular and often devolved into multiple parties just rehashing the same tired arguments over and over again, I'll just say this:

1. The Dolphins haven't had a great or even good defense since probably 2008. Maybe with the exception of the brief time that Reshad Jones and IAQ were healthy and on the field together -- the defense played well during that period -- It's certainly been deteriorating since he got here, with the loss of Karlos Dansby and the perennial dumpster fire we trot out at LB. Secondary problems have also plagued the team.

2. The offensive line has not been bad. It has been terrible. We saw the best performance out of our OL during Tannehill's tenure in 2012 (While not great, it was acceptable until Jake Long got hurt), and in 2016 after Adam Gase finally cut the dead weight of Turner/Thomas. Not surprisingly, after Gase made drastic changes to the OL personnel in 2016, the team went on a tear and won 9 out of the final 11 games.

I mean, how do you go back and watch 2013 game film with a straight face making these kind of arguments? Tyson Clabo and Jon Martin were so bad I still intensely dislike both of them to this day. Remember Steve Ross pulling Jeff Ireland and Joe Philbin aside after the Ravens game and telling them "DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE TACKLES OR YOU'RE BOTH FIRED?" And then they went and traded with Baltimore for Bryant McKinnie... a guy who had just been determined to be so bad that they had to trade for tackle Eugene Monroe, and McKinnie was STILL a huge upgrade over Jon Martin? McKinnie, like MANY Dolphins offensive players who have been here since 2012, then promptly retired after the season because HE WAS COMPLETELY WASHED UP AND COULDN'T PLAY ANYMORE.

It's the QB's fault he couldn't get more out of that?

3. The other skill players on offense. Mike Wallace never came close to matching again the production he had in Miami in 2014. Brian Hartline lasted maybe one more season in which he did basically nothing, then retired. Charles Clay -- one of the few legitimately good pieces we've had -- is currently doing jack **** in Buffalo. Other starting skill players? Legedu Naanee? Anthony Armstrong? Jordan Cameron? Julius Thomas? Davone Bess? Bueller? Anyone? Anyone? Even the guys I like, like Dion Sims, are doing absolutely NOTHING. Lamar Miller's career imploded after he signed with the Texans.

Unless you count blocking specialist Anthony Fasano, the ONE example of success we can find with a player who left Miami is Rishard Matthews. He's done well for himself in Tennessee. That shouldn't be a surprise, before he got hurt in 2015 he was the team's #2 receiving target and Tannehill had something obscene like a 120 passer rating when going to him. Guy's good, and even though we drafted him we somehow managed to get just one year of production out of him. Unbelievable. That leads me to...

4. Coaching. Since I know that some people get VERY upset when I criticize Mike Sherman or Bill Lazor, let's just talk about that offensive staff under Joe Philbin in general. They got mad at Rishard Matthews, and the story I heard was that he went out to his car during halftime of a pre-season game or something, and sat him in the doghouse for THREE YEARS because of that. Kenny Stills arrived in Miami in 2015 and I remember having arguments with people in the 2016 pre-season about whether or not he should be cut. Since Adam Gase arrived, does anyone still think he should be cut? Anybody? Again, the coaching staff was a group of incompetent buffoons who did not know how to use personnel.

Remember in 2015 when they had the corpse of Greg Jennings -- oh man, I actually forgot Greg Jennings in the above part -- and put him in the lineup in place of Devante Parker, who was nursing an injury? Then Remember when they had 38 year old Jennings running fades and other plays that were put in for Parker? They didn't even bother to adjust anything, they were like "Yeah, screw it, have Jennings go up for a jump ball."

Watch the play on the field. The quarterback is not the problem. The quarterback was out there trying to carry DEAD *** WEIGHT and running into problems like the fact that it's not physically possible to catch your own damn passes. After watching 14 games of Jay Cutler you guys really still think the QB is the problem? lmao

Is Wingfield around and posting today? Get him in here. Have him post some .gifs of clutch dimes on third down or in the red zone that were straight up DROPPED over the past five years. Get a montage going. It'll sicken you.
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I admire your ability to hold all that in for so many of these threads, then fire it all out there so eloquently. Kudos.
 
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