Taylor for a 2nd rounder good idea?

[afishfan]

for all you guys so eager to trade Taylor for what amounts to a late second rounder (58)....better stop and take a look at how often late second rounders pan out. lets look

58 Ikaika Alama-Francis DE Hawaii Detroit Lions

58 Richard Marshall CB Fresno State Carolina Panthers

58 Terrence Murphy WR Texas A&M Green Bay Packers


58 Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh San Francisco 49ers

58 Mike Doss SS Ohio State Indianapolis Colts
58 Michael M. Lewis SS Colorado Philadelphia Eagles
58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee Buffalo Bills
58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech Buffalo Bills
58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech Denver Broncos
58 Jeremy Newberry C California San Francisco 49ers

58 Kim Herring FS Penn State Baltimore Ravens
58 Reggie Tongue DB Oregon State Kansas City Chiefs
58 Barrett Brooks T Kansas State Philadelphia Eagles
58 Donnell Bennett RB Miami (Fla.) Kansas City Chiefs
58 Billy Joe Hobert QB Washington Los Angeles Raiders
58 Clayton Holmes DB Carson-Newman Dallas Cowboys
58 Reggie Barrett WR Texas-El Paso Detroit Lions
58 Ricky Proehl WR Wake Forest Phoenix Cardinals
58 Matt Brock DE Oregon Green Bay Packers
58 Ray Roundtree WR Penn State Detroit Lions
58 Chris Gambol T Iowa Indianapolis Colts
58 Jim Skow DE Nebraska Cincinnati Bengals
58 Tyrone Davis DB Clemson New York Giants
58 Johnny Meads LB Nicholls State Houston Oilers
58 Tim Joiner LB Louisiana State Houston Oilers
58 Rodney Lewis DB Nebraska New Orleans Saints

Thats 25 years folks...that should give us a pretty good idea of what we are looking at. ARe you kidding me? we are looking at Michael Lewis, Travis Henry, Jeremy Newberry, and Ricky [mod] Do not circumvent the profanity filter. [/mod] Proehl?

Proehl doesnt even count if you ask me. He was never even more than a third receiver and he wasnt a great one at that! At least the guy played in the league for more than a year or two which is more than I can say for most of these guys! Every team in the league also knows how easy it is to find running backs now *** well. **** Denver thinks they are toilet paper...they wipe their *** with one...get a 1000 yards out of him...trade him to the lions or browns for draft picks...go draft another guy in the sixth round or sign TRAVIS HENRY for peanuts cause the Titans don't need him anymore...then trade him away for more draft pick probably...get the idea?? Henry doesn't even count. So we have TWO or THREE guys that were pretty good out of 25! lets keep in mind as well that Henry didnt last in Buffalo. They drafted another guy to take his place...so one way to look at it is he didnt even work out for them!

thats like 12% folks that we get somebody OK (if we say three pan out -8% if not). and I know Parcells is TWICE as good as the next guy...i agree....well that means there is a 25% chance that we find somebody that ends up contributing...that's it 25%

So you tell me if I told you you could have a 25% chance of finding one good player for your team (that may or may not be with your team in 4 years) or you could have one player that is ONE YEAR REMOVED FROM BEING THE MOST DOMINATE PLAYER ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL IN THE LEAGUE. who you know will get you 10-16 sacks, make two game changing plays a game force 4 fumbles (at least) at least 50% chance he will return an interception for a touchdown or return a fumble during a game....etc etc etc..... and you ONLY have him for two years (but **** you can make an argument that he COULD be around 5 or 6 more years - based on Charles Haley, Richard Dent, Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Michael Strahan etc etc)....who would you take?

Please Jacksonville...Please ...give us that second rounder....it's SO valuable...

 

[dolfanmark]

To be honest, you need to look at all the late 2nd round and early 3rd round picks. Just because there's this weak history at #58, it doesn't mean that late 2nd roudners do not work out. Especially not if you believe that Parcells and Ireland are good at drafting talent.

 

[thefranchisedef]

okay look at the picks in the last 10 years... mike doss, jeremy newberry, shawntee spencer, monte reagar, travis henry... thats 6 players out of the past 10 years that are solid.. so come on, what would you rather have? no pick for jason, and just lose him for nothing.. or do you want a solid player like mike doss?

 

[XXXSURTAINXXX]

Why are you guys so bent on trading JT. Nobody we could draft this year would be more productive than JT this upcoming year or the next. If this team achieves some success in the next year or two he deserves to share in it. Hasn't he earned that much from his loyalty?

 

[greasyObnoxious]

okay look at the picks in the last 10 years... mike doss, jeremy newberry, shawntee spencer, monte reagar, travis henry... thats 6 players out of the past 10 years that are solid.. so come on, what would you rather have? no pick for jason, and just lose him for nothing.. or do you want a solid player like mike doss?

yeah, terrence murphy also never had a real chance. he had to retire during his rookie year because of a serious neck injury. up until this point though, he was looking extremely promising. Francis hasn't gotten much of a chance with detroit either.

 

[ShaBam]

Why are you guys so bent on trading JT. Nobody we could draft this year would be more productive than JT this upcoming year or the next. If this team achieves some success in the next year or two he deserves to share in it. Hasn't he earned that much from his loyalty?

This just in: The Dolphins won't be contending for anything the next 2 years. Honestly they have a better chance at winning the Stanley Cup than they do the Superbowl.

So what good is Jason Taylor to us the next couple years when we are crappy anyways?

Get some picks for him.

 

[XXXSURTAINXXX]

This just in: The Dolphins won't be contending for anything the next 2 years. Honestly they have a better chance at winning the Stanley Cup than they do the Superbowl.

So what good is Jason Taylor to us the next couple years when we are crappy anyways?

Get some picks for him.

Trivia Question:

What NFL team went 1-15 one season and won the superbowl the next?

You have no idea how the Dolphins will perform next year. I expect to see major improvements this upcoming seasons, not just because I love the team, but by the moves that have been made.

I stand on this. We will make the playoffs this upcoming season.

 

[LarryFinFan]

f
So you tell me if I told you you could have a 25% chance of finding one good player for your team (that may or may not be with your team in 4 years) or you could have one player that is ONE YEAR REMOVED FROM BEING THE MOST DOMINATE PLAYER ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL IN THE LEAGUE. who you know will get you 10-16 sacks, make two game changing plays a game force 4 fumbles (at least) at least 50% chance he will return an interception for a touchdown or return a fumble during a game....etc etc etc..... and you ONLY have him for two years (but **** you can make an argument that he COULD be around 5 or 6 more years - based on Charles Haley, Richard Dent, Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Michael Strahan etc etc)....who would you take?

Please Jacksonville...Please ...give us that second rounder....it's SO valuable...

What if there is another angle to this scenario...what if it's not Tunaland that is hell-bent on trading JT, but JT that wants the trade ?? Would you keep him here if he doesn't want to go thru the rebuilding again here ?? JT has certainly earned our gratitude and praise as not only a great player but a great man. If trading him, meant the difference between getting into the playoffs next season and not, then I'd agree with you and say forget a trade...he's under contract, etc...

But since it's painfully obvious that there are way too many holes in this team to get to where we are fielding a validated NFL team again, much less a playoff contending team, lets make a move that helps the player (by trading him to a contender) and might help us in the long run (drafting a player that, if not a star, can contribute for the next 4 yrs somewhere, be it STs or backup talent and may, just may be better than that ??

The one thing that you also have to remember about that area of the draft, is by then, the top names are gone. It is an area where you can 'experiment' safely as a talent evaluator, coach or GM. You're generally looking for just such a guy as I described further up, a guy that may be a starter, but at the least can provide depth and STs play until he either develops into a starter or you lose him to FA or you determine he's just simply a bust...

We as Fins fans, have been duped, cheated, lied to, and generally disregarded by the past 4 regimes that have been here. But while Tunaland may lay an egg here, their history says otherwise. Even if they are only around 4 yrs, they've shown that they will leave the team in very good condition, talent-wise. We haven't seen any talent worth a hooray on Sunday brought in here since JJ left...and even then, it was only on the D side of the ball....

 

[Lee2000]

This is part Taylor himself and part Bill's plan...

Taylor didn't endear himself to Bill by participating in Dancing with the Stars. And Taylor is probably not excited about the re-building project at his age. Common sense has to prevail here. Get him to a contender and build your team some more. And in terms of players working out or not working out we have too many people wanting to predict the future based on the past again. While that is a factor, coaching and the individual player are a part of the equation as well. There are more variables to consider than just the past drafting successes in that round. I am sure Miami will seek more than a 2nd round pick. Likely two picks prior to round 5. Denials and retoric aside, I expect to see this trade and it makes sense for all parties.

Lee2000

 

[mike_vee]

Why are you guys so bent on trading JT. Nobody we could draft this year would be more productive than JT this upcoming year or the next. If this team achieves some success in the next year or two he deserves to share in it. Hasn't he earned that much from his loyalty?

i don't think any dolfans are hell bent on trading JT but if it's to help the team for the futur, hell ya i would trade him for a second rounder... think about it JT's got what 2-3 years left in him maybe 1 year after that at being at a good not great player...besides he's got what 1 year left on his contract next year the fins are definitly not going to resign him so matters well get something for him that we can groom and be great or maybe just good. who knows but you need to do whats best for the team not be sentimental about players that where great for you. as they all say what have you do for me lately.... thats the nature of the beast(nfl).

 

[Minnphin]

Whether or not you agree with trading JT, this has to be one of the least logical arguments I've ever seen presented in any setting. You take one draft slot with questionable returns and offer that as proof that late 2nd round picks are worthless? Without looking, I'm guessing you could take the 7th pick in the draft and use that as evidence that a top 10 pick is worthless! The draft is a crapshoot, but the more quality picks you have, the better chance you have at finding a gem, and I'm guessing if you took a list of guys taken from 45 to 75 over the last 10 years, you'd find plenty of probowlers and plenty of bums.

 

[afishfan]

okay look at the picks in the last 10 years... mike doss, jeremy newberry, shawntee spencer, monte reagar, travis henry... thats 6 players out of the past 10 years that are solid.. so come on, what would you rather have? no pick for jason, and just lose him for nothing.. or do you want a solid player like mike doss?

Ok...look at them Mike Doss??? what has he done?? Absolutely nothing. a guy that doesnt even hold down a starting spot for a year then ends up with another team and doesnt play then is now a free agent.....you call that succcess???? give me a break reagar, spencer??? come on dude get real

 

[afishfan]

Whether or not you agree with trading JT, this has to be one of the least logical arguments I've ever seen presented in any setting. You take one draft slot with questionable returns and offer that as proof that late 2nd round picks are worthless? Without looking, I'm guessing you could take the 7th pick in the draft and use that as evidence that a top 10 pick is worthless! The draft is a crapshoot, but the more quality picks you have, the better chance you have at finding a gem, and I'm guessing if you took a list of guys taken from 45 to 75 over the last 10 years, you'd find plenty of probowlers and plenty of bums.

dude you make no sense. The 58th pick is the one Jacksonville is offering supposedly. Do you see the connection??? I looked at the 58th pick. It's not rocket science dude. I'll help you along a bit though. See I knew a sampling of perhaps 10 picks might not be enough to show any particular pattern or record of success. Therefore i went back 25 years - see how that works?? When you go back 25 years and only 3 players could be considered to have had any degree of success in the NFL, and one of them couldnt stick with the team that drafted him (they drafted a guy to replace him) and the next stop he doesnt get offered a contract after a year. Thats 2 guys my friend out of 25. That's telling

So go take your argument that doesnt make sense and take a look at the 59th pick and 60th pick or whatever the hell you feel like doing, and I promise you will find generally the same thing. That guys late in the second round very rarely become bonafide NFL talents. THAT IS A FACT BUDDY. if you need me to help you with it let me know.

 

[BobDole]

no question - it's a gamble. but sometimes that gamble pays off - welker for satele. i will take that all week. i think this decision gets left up to JT, and i think he will decide to leave for a contender. i also think that i will get stupid drunk on said day.

 

[afishfan]

i don't think any dolfans are hell bent on trading JT but if it's to help the team for the futur, hell ya i would trade him for a second rounder... think about it JT's got what 2-3 years left in him maybe 1 year after that at being at a good not great player...besides he's got what 1 year left on his contract next year the fins are definitly not going to resign him so matters well get something for him that we can groom and be great or maybe just good. who knows but you need to do whats best for the team not be sentimental about players that where great for you. as they all say what have you do for me lately.... thats the nature of the beast(nfl).

Um ok....did you watch JT last year? First off he has two years remaining on his contract...so that doesnt make sense. Secondly, why do you think that he has only one year left to play? So many elite players at his position last till their LATE 30's it not even funny...it happens more often than not. Suppose you mentioned Seau was washed up what 5 years ago??? completely stupid argument.

My point was the likelihood of us finding a player that contributes late in the second, rolling the dice on the draft pick is really not worth the future production of Jason Taylor. It's so stupid how in love people are with draft picks. Sure I want as many we can get and as high as they can be. But just because the Raiders go and do something stupid like give away Randy Moss for a 4th - does not make that 4th a valuable commodity. If Wes Welker had been tendered first round money last year - The PATRIOTS STILL would have signed him. The defensive player of the year one year removed is worth more than a late second, and I don't give a **** if he is 35! Where are you going to get the production from the defensive end position if you are a team like the Jags or Vikes, or Pack????????????????

If you are ready to go deep in the playoffs, you take the step to get you over the hump, and that player is worth more than a late second rounder. It doesn't matter how you look at it.