TE and RB on the final 53...and what sort of formations will they run? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

TE and RB on the final 53...and what sort of formations will they run?

The Goat

The Goat

Trying real hard to be the shepherd.
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I've been going over this in my head since Miami tagged Gesicki, trying to figure out what sort of formations Miami is going to run, and what their depth is going to be.

What I keep coming up with is 4 TE, 4 RB and a FB.

Meaning they have to jettison 3 RB, 2 TE and a FB. The most probable way this ends up in my mind is:

TE: Gesicki, Smythe, Shaheen, Long (cut Carter, Conner to PS)
RB: Edmonds, Michel, Mostert, TBD (probably keep 1 or 2 of the remaining 3 on PS)
FB: Ingold, (Cut Lovett (?))

My question then becomes - how are they going to effectively use Gesicki? I've literally been fighting with insomnia and gone over this in my head more than once.

(To hopefully keep my inane babbling somewhat sensible: https://www.viqtorysports.com/what-does-21-11-personnel-mean-in-football/)

I can't imagine them running a lot of 22 or 12 formations, just because they're probably going to want to implement Hill, Waddle and Wilson as much as possible. And because Gesicki simply isn't a very good run blocker, when he's on the field in a 21 formation, defenses will simply account for him as a receiver, not a blocker, signaling that Miami is more likely to pass the ball.

What I came up with is the thinking that Miami COULD line up in 12 formation a lot in 2nd or 3rd and short, with Gesicki lining up as a blocker, then shifting to the slot. This (in my head) would work pretty well if McDaniel runs a lot of inside zone. But it also means that Wilson and Gesicki probably won't be on the field all that much together, and will eat into each other's playing time.

This is why, although I like Gesicki, I didn't understand why they franchised him after signing WIlson. He's just not the optimal TE for an offense that seems to want to establish the run...which Miami signaled they wanted to do as soon as they signed Ingold.

Can someone smarter than me explain how this is going to work?
 
My hope is Miami would lines up in a 12 personnel grouping more oft than not.

That way, Gesicki gives the impression of 3 Wide (w/ Tyreek & Waddle). The other TE can be used inline to support the OL then release a safety valve (notice I didn't say checkdown /s).

Lovett & Carter IMO won't be on the final 53.
 
The Goat said:
I've been going over this in my head since Miami tagged Gesicki, trying to figure out what sort of formations Miami is going to run, and what their depth is going to be.

What I keep coming up with is 4 TE, 4 RB and a FB.

Meaning they have to jettison 3 RB, 2 TE and a FB. The most probable way this ends up in my mind is:

TE: Gesicki, Smythe, Shaheen, Long (cut Carter, Conner to PS)
RB: Edmonds, Michel, Mostert, TBD (probably keep 1 or 2 of the remaining 3 on PS)
FB: Ingold, (Cut Lovett (?))

My question then becomes - how are they going to effectively use Gesicki? I've literally been fighting with insomnia and gone over this in my head more than once.

(To hopefully keep my inane babbling somewhat sensible: https://www.viqtorysports.com/what-does-21-11-personnel-mean-in-football/)

I can't imagine them running a lot of 22 or 12 formations, just because they're probably going to want to implement Hill, Waddle and Wilson as much as possible. And because Gesicki simply isn't a very good run blocker, when he's on the field in a 21 formation, defenses will simply account for him as a receiver, not a blocker, signaling that Miami is more likely to pass the ball.

What I came up with is the thinking that Miami COULD line up in 12 formation a lot in 2nd or 3rd and short, with Gesicki lining up as a blocker, then shifting to the slot. This (in my head) would work pretty well if McDaniel runs a lot of inside zone. But it also means that Wilson and Gesicki probably won't be on the field all that much together, and will eat into each other's playing time.

This is why, although I like Gesicki, I didn't understand why they franchised him after signing WIlson. He's just not the optimal TE for an offense that seems to want to establish the run...which Miami signaled they wanted to do as soon as they signed Ingold.

Can someone smarter than me explain how this is going to work?
Click to expand...
Fantastically articulated conundrum Goat. I don't know the answer but you knocked the cover off the question!
 
The Goat said:
I've been going over this in my head since Miami tagged Gesicki, trying to figure out what sort of formations Miami is going to run, and what their depth is going to be.

What I keep coming up with is 4 TE, 4 RB and a FB.

Meaning they have to jettison 3 RB, 2 TE and a FB. The most probable way this ends up in my mind is:

TE: Gesicki, Smythe, Shaheen, Long (cut Carter, Conner to PS)
RB: Edmonds, Michel, Mostert, TBD (probably keep 1 or 2 of the remaining 3 on PS)
FB: Ingold, (Cut Lovett (?))

My question then becomes - how are they going to effectively use Gesicki? I've literally been fighting with insomnia and gone over this in my head more than once.

(To hopefully keep my inane babbling somewhat sensible: https://www.viqtorysports.com/what-does-21-11-personnel-mean-in-football/)

I can't imagine them running a lot of 22 or 12 formations, just because they're probably going to want to implement Hill, Waddle and Wilson as much as possible. And because Gesicki simply isn't a very good run blocker, when he's on the field in a 21 formation, defenses will simply account for him as a receiver, not a blocker, signaling that Miami is more likely to pass the ball.

What I came up with is the thinking that Miami COULD line up in 12 formation a lot in 2nd or 3rd and short, with Gesicki lining up as a blocker, then shifting to the slot. This (in my head) would work pretty well if McDaniel runs a lot of inside zone. But it also means that Wilson and Gesicki probably won't be on the field all that much together, and will eat into each other's playing time.

This is why, although I like Gesicki, I didn't understand why they franchised him after signing WIlson. He's just not the optimal TE for an offense that seems to want to establish the run...which Miami signaled they wanted to do as soon as they signed Ingold.

Can someone smarter than me explain how this is going to work?
Click to expand...
While MG isn't a prototypical TE, the 14mil they are paying would put him in the mid 20s of WR salaries. I think if used effectively he is worth that as a receiver alone. That's why I didn't care much about tagging him. Probably the best thing to do, at least until we get a handle on what Long can do.

As far as alignments, I see quite a lot of 21 personnel. We will just have to mix it up enough so defenses can't just play tendencies. There are a myriad of ways to get everyone involved, via motion, shifts, Hill lining up in the backfield and moving pre snap, etc. McD is going to be like a kid with the ultimate jumbo erector set (easy there @circumstances ).
 
Mach2 said:
While MG isn't a prototypical TE, the 14mil they are paying would put him in the mid 20s of WR salaries. I think if used effectively he is worth that as a receiver alone. That's why I didn't care much about tagging him. Probably the best thing to do, at least until we get a handle on what Long can do.

As far as alignments, I see quite a lot of 21 personnel. We will just have to mix it up enough so defenses can't just play tendencies. There are a myriad of ways to get everyone involved, via motion, shifts, Hill lining up in the backfield and moving pre snap, etc. McD is going to be like a kid with the ultimate jumbo erector set (easy there @circumstances ).
Click to expand...
does he production match that of a top 25 receiver?
 
djphinfan said:
does he production match that of a top 25 receiver?
Click to expand...
If you just go by raw stats, I don't think I would say that is clearly the case. If I factor in that our offense was crap, both in design and horrible Oline play, I would say he is as valuable as the average 25-30 WR.

I have to ask myself if those comparable receivers would have faired any better than MG, and I doubt they would have.
 
I really don’t like Shaheen. He’s not a great blocker and sucks as a patch catcher. I’d go Gesicki,Smythe and Long. Rather give long shaheens snaps as he’s a below average pass catcher.

Rather keep a bigger running back either Doaks or White who has a nice mixture or size and speed. Then Edmonds/Mostert/Sony with either white or doaks. Sorry Ahmed and gaskin you’ve both overachieved but they bring nothing to the table that Edmonds/mostert or Sony don’t already do better.
 
4th TE, 4th RB, 4th/5th WR, bottom DBs all make (or not) the roster in large part due to special teams needs/ability. It isn't as simple as some are making it out to be, IMO.
 
The Goat said:
I've been going over this in my head since Miami tagged Gesicki, trying to figure out what sort of formations Miami is going to run, and what their depth is going to be.

What I keep coming up with is 4 TE, 4 RB and a FB.

Meaning they have to jettison 3 RB, 2 TE and a FB. The most probable way this ends up in my mind is:

TE: Gesicki, Smythe, Shaheen, Long (cut Carter, Conner to PS)
RB: Edmonds, Michel, Mostert, TBD (probably keep 1 or 2 of the remaining 3 on PS)
FB: Ingold, (Cut Lovett (?))

My question then becomes - how are they going to effectively use Gesicki? I've literally been fighting with insomnia and gone over this in my head more than once.

(To hopefully keep my inane babbling somewhat sensible: https://www.viqtorysports.com/what-does-21-11-personnel-mean-in-football/)

I can't imagine them running a lot of 22 or 12 formations, just because they're probably going to want to implement Hill, Waddle and Wilson as much as possible. And because Gesicki simply isn't a very good run blocker, when he's on the field in a 21 formation, defenses will simply account for him as a receiver, not a blocker, signaling that Miami is more likely to pass the ball.

What I came up with is the thinking that Miami COULD line up in 12 formation a lot in 2nd or 3rd and short, with Gesicki lining up as a blocker, then shifting to the slot. This (in my head) would work pretty well if McDaniel runs a lot of inside zone. But it also means that Wilson and Gesicki probably won't be on the field all that much together, and will eat into each other's playing time.

This is why, although I like Gesicki, I didn't understand why they franchised him after signing WIlson. He's just not the optimal TE for an offense that seems to want to establish the run...which Miami signaled they wanted to do as soon as they signed Ingold.

Can someone smarter than me explain how this is going to work?
Click to expand...

If they had to do it all over again, knowing that they got Hill, I think it’s very plausible to assume they would’ve let Gesicki go.

I don’t expect MG back in 2023. I like the kid a lot though. Great leader. Any team is better with him on it as opposed to not.
 
The Ghost said:
If they had to do it all over again, knowing that they got Hill, I think it’s very plausible to assume they would’ve let Gesicki go.

I don’t expect MG back in 2023. I like the kid a lot though. Great leader. Any team is better with him on it as opposed to not.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but you still need a reliable big body guy.
 
The Ghost said:
Insert the current Notre Dame TE to play with a previous ND TE.

Also, Gesicki is slated to make 10.9M this year, not 14M. So he’s in a slightly different grouping.
Click to expand...
My bad about the 14mil. That's what I get for not looking.

Insert whoever you want. They aren't proven. I would have been fine if we moved on from MG. I just believe it was the right call given the situation. He and Tua do have a rapport. No good reason to negate that over a couple million one way or the other.
 
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