Team building theory 2021 edition. | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Team building theory 2021 edition.

What do you do with #3 if no trade down available?

  • QB

    Votes: 9 6.6%
  • WR

    Votes: 62 45.3%
  • T

    Votes: 66 48.2%

  • Total voters
    137
I would have to go with Sewell. We know Hunt can play RG. If neither Sewell or Jackson can play RT we still have Hunt who can. A good LT will always have trade value. That trade value isn't diminished because a team has two of them. IMHO Tua's value would be unfairly diminished if we drafted a QB at 3. The preception would be Tua has to be a bust for the Dolphin's to draft a QB this year at 3. But teams do need at least two QB's. There really isn't a reason why they couldn't both play. Is it really a better strategy to pay more for someone like Fitz? Someone whom you know has no possible future with the team and no possible trade value down the road? Look at what some of you are advocating giving up for Watson. Who is to say that it is impossible for both Tua and Fields to be worthy over serious draft compensation down the road in a trade?

I reject the notion that the team would have to add a FA WR if we didn't draft one at 3...I think there will be loads of good ones at 18, 38, 50 and beyond. I'd have no problem with the first five picks being OT, WR, WR RB, and RB. Getting Williams, Wilson, and Hurns back next year is almost like getting a FA WR as they all have some proven degree of success in the league.
 
I approach the #3 pick by player, not position.

At this point, assuming Jags and Jets take Lawrence and Shield/Wilson my big board would be Sewell at #3 and the rest in order if Miami dropped down down and stayed in the top 10.

Sewell
Chase
Parsons
Smith
Pitts
Waddle
Paye
Rousseau

Hard not to put Surtain II or Farley in their, but so many resources already invested in the secondary and hope Iggy is ready to contribute.
 
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No trade down available, draft Sewell.

LT- Austin Jackson
LG- Solomon Kindley
C- Ted Karras/Michael Deiter
RG- Robert Hunt
RT- Penei Sewell

that looks pretty legit too me.

And then you're throwing to guys like Ford and Hollins again next season because you KNOW Parker and Williams and Grant are going to get hurt.
 
Right now we have to draft for our needs so I’m not opposed at getting that RT or Wr with our first pick
Who cares about value where you pick right now? I don’t because we’re close to competing at a high level so I don’t view the so-called experts critiquing of how we drafted
I know I don’t want a FA RB, they rarely don’t work out. Draft RBs every four years and churn and burn them
After we’re contenders then we draft positional value because that does make sense
As far as FA, just role players at modest salaries. I’m done with the Mike Wallace’s and Mario Williams of the world
 
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#1 trade down acquire extra picks.

#2 draft Sewell

#3 draft Fields
 
If we can't trade down then WR is the way to go imo. As I've said before, we don't know yet what we have with Jackson at LT because he's just a rookie but the talent is there. OTOH, we do know what we have at WR which is nothing so to me is very simple. Take what you need(WR) instead of drafting a player(Sewell) that you might not even need.
 
If we can't trade down then WR is the way to go imo. As I've said before, we don't know yet what we have with Jackson at LT because he's just a rookie but the talent is there. OTOH, we do know what we have at WR which is nothing so to me is very simple. Take what you need(WR) instead of drafting a player(Sewell) that you might not even need.

Agreed and some are mistaking this "generational" talent label on Sewell. He's not perfect and despite the buzz he's not worlds better than the next OT talent. The same can't be said for Chase/Smith those guys are heads and shoulders better than the next reciever talent on the list.
 
Warning: This is another one of my TLDR; post.

About this time last year I made a post about positional value in the draft. Things were pretty straightfoward as it pertained to the Fins; they basically needed everything so it was easy to draft for positional value, which they did with their 1st 2 picks. At the top of the draft, value wise, QB >>> LT >> WR, and what do you know, Fins drafted a QB followed by a LT.

Things are going to be murkier this season as they find themselves at the top again with both of the top value positions filled to an extent. The way the NFL is setup makes it very hard for teams to commit to a pure value strategy when it comes to the draft. The free agency being before the draft sets teams up to build a good part of their team through FA, and leave them trying to fill remaining holes through the uncertainty of the draft.

This is mostly to make sure vets are getting taken care of first... This only makes sense so dont expect it to change, but its not ideal for teams trying to build their teams the right way. In other words, NFL GMs would be much more likely to draft exclusively for value if they knew FAs was right around the corner to fill in the gaps.

All that being said, the Fins clear objective this off-season should be to go from bum to one on offense, as they did on D this season. Offense success mainly runs through the QB position, the WRs and the OL, followed by TEs and RBs. I will focus on the #3 pick in this post as its the most interesting one for many reasons, one of which is the Fins can actually pick anyone they want with that pick minest 2 players.

QB

There's no doubt if the Fins find themselves in position to draft a QB in the top 5, this would be the pure value option to make. And its not even close. But when it comes to the overall strategy of building a top 5 offense, it gets complicated.

If the Fins want to optimize the QB position, they need to upgrade the receiving options. To be realistic, they could very well need 2 top notch WRs and a decent slot. The draft isnt the only place to get those players, but the #3 pick gives you a 100% shot at one top notch option and could very well give you 2 of them if you split the value in a trade down.

There's also the fact that the pure value of picking the QB here doesnt translate to simply adding the value of Tua + the value of the drafted QB as only one of them gets to see the majority of the snaps on offense(hopefully). While you do split the risk, you dont necessarily increase upside. Simply put, the loser of the starting job only retains implied value, meaning there's no on fied value of increasing offensive production.

There's no FA move to be made on any QB except for backup(which is beyond the scope of this post) so Im not going to go there.

Tackle

The 2nd option is to bypass QB and draft the Tackle. The difference here is even if the Fins already have a tackle on team, adding the value of Jackson on top of the value of Sewell applies. Both can start on the offensive line and contribute to offensive success. Whether its the optimal way to go to go from bum to one on offense warrants a dicussion. The obvious yay here is that there's no value mistake being made, the obvious nay is that this might not be the optimal route to take in your strategy of building a top offense.

There's no FA move to be made here except for backups, not going there.

WR

This is the most interesting one of the bunch IMO, there are alot of ways to go about it and alot of them are very close calls. These kind of decisions(close value calls) always warrant the most discussion because very often, there's no completely wrong anwser and you get get 50% of people on one side, 50% on the other, going back and forth on it, no one is absolutely right and no one absolutely wrong.

The most straight foward way to go here would be to pick your prefered WR at #3, boom 1/3rd of your problem solved, off to #18. Problem here is you're making a value mistake. In a prefect world, you pick the WR between 7-10, or when the QBs and Tackles are gone. A trade down here would be ideal, to a spot where the WR is your absolute value move. You dont control the trade offers you get, but needless to say you listen.

Best case scenarion is you trade down, get an extra 2nd and pick your player. So the net mistake of picking the WR at #3 is a 2nd round pick(Or whatever you think would be the fair value of trading down)

Or you could try and fill the position in FA. The problem with FA is the higher the value of the position, the bigger the % of your cap is attributed to an overpayment. For example, over paying for a good RB in FA might me a 2-3M/per affair, when overpaying for a WR in FA could be as much as a 6-8M overpayment. These things add up quick, its basically why you want to draft high value positions, instead of overpaying, you're underpaying.

One thing the Fins need to figure out is: Is picking a WR #3, should that be our only option, a bigger loss of value than overpaying for one in FA? Another way to put this, Does it make sense to overpay for a WR in FA so we can avoid making a mistake picking one a #3 if overpaying for one is the bigger mistake? And the problem here is that this decision needs to be made before free agency, before they know what the offers will look like. Its a though spot to be in.

This can be avoided over time by drafting for positional value on a consistent basis... After a while, you're always stocked with young talent at high value positions which makes FA moves easy, you fill in the gaps with the added value from the draft. But every time you start drafting for need, you sacrifice value. Its always a balancing act between what do we want to look like this season and how do we want to run things on a consistant basis. The more you deviate, the more your results vary, and there's no telling if they'll vary towards good or bad.

So what do you do with #3?

To state the obvious, no one knows Miami's rankings - players or positions, and needs will change post-FA. And trading down will get A top WR, but maybe not the PREFERRED WR. No, I don't think QB is a consideration.

I suspect trade down is the preferred option for Flo/Grier. Failing that, #3 could be WR/LB. My preference is biggest holes first.
 
Faulty premises.
What do you mean by no trade down available?

100% available, just depends on your asking pricing.

With Lions or Eagles, take their two this year and third next year, they'll take the deal in a heartbeat. Trade down to get Smith or Chase. With the Hou second, we could get Waddle....then we will have Smith and Waddle next year. Watch out NFL.

I don't like to force to take Sewell. Sewell = waste pick
 
Yes, ultimately it comes down to the specific players. I trust Tua to improve more with Smith/Chase and a non-Sewell tackle than the other way around. We've seen Tua has good pocket presence. Too many times he gets enough time but simply doesn't have anyone open to hit.
 
I'm a big believer in taking BPA in the early draft rather than need b/c if not you end up with lesser talent, but obviously the ideal situation is where the BPAs are at a position of need. IMO this year the WR talent is among the BPA and it's our greatest need.

I also think that the LT position's importance has diminished compared to what it once was. It used to be that teams put their best pass rusher on the QB's blind side automatically. That's what made LT the most important OL position. But defenses started putting their best pass rushers over weaker pass protectors at RT several years ago. Then defenses started prioritizing getting middle pressure. The upshot is that while pass pro and OL is still vitally important, having that elite guy isn't as important as it used to be. The more important thing is having no weak links. You might get as much of an overall production bump from a FA G or C as we get from a top tier LT prospect at #3. In fact, while I doubt any team would do this, I think it's arguable that our OL might improve more if we took Slater and put him at C than it would if we took Sewell and put him at T. Our OL might improve just as much or more if we made our FA splash with Thuney at either RG or LG. I think that FA money at G would be more of a sure thing than using it on a FA WR in the same salary range.
 
If there is no trade down available and Sewell is available, I'm absolutely taking Sewell. Until the line is solid, WR just isn't as important. We can trade up from 18 to get a top receiver or get a solid receiver in free agency.
This WR class is deep. There will be guys available day 2 who will be NFL starters as rookies. They might not have the hype that Smith or Chase has, but they would certainly improve our WR core. Fixing our OL is critical to the growth and success of Tua. I really can’t agree more with what you wrote; if Sewell is there at 3 and we can’t trade back there is zero reason not to take him. He is the best lineman on our team the minute he signs his rookie contract.
 
I'm a big believer in taking BPA in the early draft rather than need b/c if not you end up with lesser talent, but obviously the ideal situation is where the BPAs are at a position of need. IMO this year the WR talent is among the BPA and it's our greatest need.

I also think that the LT position's importance has diminished compared to what it once was. It used to be that teams put their best pass rusher on the QB's blind side automatically. That's what made LT the most important OL position. But defenses started putting their best pass rushers over weaker pass protectors at RT several years ago. Then defenses started prioritizing getting middle pressure. The upshot is that while pass pro and OL is still vitally important, having that elite guy isn't as important as it used to be. The more important thing is having no weak links. You might get as much of an overall production bump from a FA G or C as we get from a top tier LT prospect at #3. In fact, while I doubt any team would do this, I think it's arguable that our OL might improve more if we took Slater and put him at C than it would if we took Sewell and put him at T. Our OL might improve just as much or more if we made our FA splash with Thuney at either RG or LG. I think that FA money at G would be more of a sure thing than using it on a FA WR in the same salary range.
BPA is a cover for GM doesn't want to be responsible.
Just for academic sake, the BPA is a cb....we take him? We luck out with Hou, or else the BPA could very well be Surtain.
Or in 1986, the BPA is a qb, we take him?

Sewell = waste pick
 
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