Team President or GM

MadDog 88

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There are so many threads that discuss hiring this coach or that coach but that is not the most important hire the Phins need to make. They need to find a Team President or Vice President of Football Operations or whatever title you wish to put on him. In laymen's terms, the guy who can hire a GM. Forget the sexy coach names like Gruden or Cowher and concentrate here first if you want long term success. Here's a couple of names:

Martin Mayhew - GM of Detroit. When Mayhew was promoted to replace Millen I scoffed but damn was I wrong. He has hit a grand slam in Detroit and what he and Schwartz have accomplished in 2 years is amazing. Keep in mind the Lions were 0-16 one year after our current clowns assumed control. He is my first choice without question.

Mike Tannenbaum - GM of the Jets. Has done an excellent job in building them mixing vets with young guys and making the right coaching hire. You will have to pay him top dollar to lure him away and promote him but either he or Mayhew would be an excellent hire

Thomas Dmitroff - GM of Atlanta. Hired when Parcells was hired and has done a nice job of getting his franchise QB and surrounding him with talent. Not afraid to make deals to upgrade his team. A significant drop from Tannenbaum or Mayhew but still a GM of interest.

Discuss.
 

hightempo

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There are so many threads that discuss hiring this coach or that coach but that is not the most important hire the Phins need to make. They need to find a Team President or Vice President of Football Operations or whatever title you wish to put on him. In laymen's terms, the guy who can hire a GM. Forget the sexy coach names like Gruden or Cowher and concentrate here first if you want long term success. Here's a couple of names:

Martin Mayhew - GM of Detroit. When Mayhew was promoted to replace Millen I scoffed but damn was I wrong. He has hit a grand slam in Detroit and what he and Schwartz have accomplished in 2 years is amazing. Keep in mind the Lions were 0-16 one year after our current clowns assumed control. He is my first choice without question.

Mike Tannenbaum - GM of the Jets. Has done an excellent job in building them mixing vets with young guys and making the right coaching hire. You will have to pay him top dollar to lure him away and promote him but either he or Mayhew would be an excellent hire

Thomas Dmitroff - GM of Atlanta. Hired when Parcells was hired and has done a nice job of getting his franchise QB and surrounding him with talent. Not afraid to make deals to upgrade his team. A significant drop from Tannenbaum or Mayhew but still a GM of interest.

Discuss.
there is more than one way to skin a cat. on balance u are correct. however its not necessarily the best way, or the most ideal. sometimes it is the easiest way to find success. however, its not often that a super bowl winning coach is both available and motivated and seemingly a philosophical fit with an organization either. so its not black and white. ideally that coach is as good as that GM you are talking about. its not often that a guy has BOTH skill sets that it requires to be elite on both levels.

jimmy johnson and bill belicheck are two examples of men who do and bill walsh as well?

ideally it seems the best case is to find THAT guy. but they dont just grow on trees. and right now i dont know if that guy is out there.

as an owner. you have to explore both cowher and gruden. u just have to. you have to gather the information and figure out those answers. at that point the picture should become more clear. at that point you either are convicted that the structure of the organization you can put in place with this guy is a winning model. or you move on. if you move on. obviously at that point you gotta go with the GM/team president and expand your search.
 

hightempo

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There are so many threads that discuss hiring this coach or that coach but that is not the most important hire the Phins need to make. They need to find a Team President or Vice President of Football Operations or whatever title you wish to put on him. In laymen's terms, the guy who can hire a GM. Forget the sexy coach names like Gruden or Cowher and concentrate here first if you want long term success. Here's a couple of names:

Martin Mayhew - GM of Detroit. When Mayhew was promoted to replace Millen I scoffed but damn was I wrong. He has hit a grand slam in Detroit and what he and Schwartz have accomplished in 2 years is amazing. Keep in mind the Lions were 0-16 one year after our current clowns assumed control. He is my first choice without question.

Mike Tannenbaum - GM of the Jets. Has done an excellent job in building them mixing vets with young guys and making the right coaching hire. You will have to pay him top dollar to lure him away and promote him but either he or Mayhew would be an excellent hire

Thomas Dmitroff - GM of Atlanta. Hired when Parcells was hired and has done a nice job of getting his franchise QB and surrounding him with talent. Not afraid to make deals to upgrade his team. A significant drop from Tannenbaum or Mayhew but still a GM of interest.

Discuss.
i posted this. but its on topic here as well and it relates to do we go with GM model or hire the coach.

well the owner isnt going anywhere its his team. so lets talk about the things that actually can change. and yes clearly whoever is picking players needs to do a good job of collecting talent. what this is really all about is developing a system of player acquisition and development. its not ALL about simply coaching. u have to have a vision, then figure out how the pieces fit into that vision and whats needed to make it run smoothly. thats why its important for the head coach and the guy finding talent to have a good relationship - if the are cohesive you are strong at the top and that will trickle down.

so it starts there, and it helps if a guy has already been through it, because it reduces his learning curve. and hes less inclined to make the mistakes that an inexperienced guy will make (see sparano). its rare to find a guy available that has a track record of success at the highest level available - for one thing because there simply arent very many of them to begin with. in addition, those guys are generally retained or are up there in years when those things happen. there happen to be a few guys out there that have been there done that. and any search SHOULD start with them. if you eliminate them, then you should have a LEGITIMATE reason as an owner to eliminate them from your search. and one legit reason potentially would be full control if they havent done it. but a great coach isnt going to want to want his vision for the team to be limited - so you have to find those answers. and how do you make it work? so all these things come into play.

as far as cowher is concerned, as a coach - you cant really make a case against him. im just philosophically opposed to him. people generally dont change much and he would be even less inclined to change because he thinks hes had success doing it his way. and his way can work. i just dont think its the best way. and i think history tells us this. personally i love running the ball. i think at times teams get away from too quickly and for the wrong reasons. BUT, passing can open up the running game. and for me you pass to run. you pass in order to generate those 6-10 yard gains in the running game - did u see how the patriots handled the running against us?? it wasnt the passing game that was so impresssive - although that was very impressive - it was HOW they mixed in the run and the success they had running the ball. we were worried about the pass and then they gashed us with the run. the run kept us off balance the whole game.

see generally i feel teams that want to run the ball think if they just continue to pound the rock into the line...eventually theyll have success. they can dominate the clock, keep the defense fresh etc etc. but that not what offense should be about. its about efficiency and nothing more. and THAT is why the patriots have become so dangerous now.

i dont ever see that happening under cowher. i dont believe cowher believes in offensive efficiency. i believe he believes he has to RUN to win and its just not accurate.

gruden has clearly demonstrated he understands the importance of the passing game. but as evidenced by his slogan for that super-bowl season he DOES want to "pound the rock" also. i believe he believes you pass to run. but he wants to run. and thats how u do it. thats how bill walsh did it. thats how the west coast offense developed. gruden called his own plays. and rich gannon developed into an NFL MVP under his watch. the bucs offense was very efficient and effective in the playoffs under his watch, and brad johnson won a super bowl.

this guy UNDERSTANDS offense AND he UNDERSTANDS coaching. he knows what it takes to win. and this team wouldnt be boring with gruden as coach. he gives us the best chance to be the most efficient team offensively as we can be. HES DONE IT. he KNOWS what hes doing. cowher would win. i dont think hed win as efficiently as gruden. and i dont believe his style fits the city or what we as fans would love to see. off course winning trumps all. but tell me you dont wish you didnt have an offense to root for like new englands the last couple years.

i dont know how the personal part of it all fits together. and perhaps as a big picture kind of thing cowher would get the nod because of his personal people and his support system. we dont know those answers. and perhaps that picture looks brighter with gruden. not sure.

but from a PURELY coaching perspective Gruden should get the nod based on several key advantages he brings to the table.

but yes weve got to find the right guy picking the players. they go hand in hand. talent acquisition and development. gotta build the system, and gotta find the guy that will stick around and see it through. gruden can
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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There are so many threads that discuss hiring this coach or that coach but that is not the most important hire the Phins need to make. They need to find a Team President or Vice President of Football Operations or whatever title you wish to put on him. In laymen's terms, the guy who can hire a GM. Forget the sexy coach names like Gruden or Cowher and concentrate here first if you want long term success. Here's a couple of names:

Martin Mayhew - GM of Detroit. When Mayhew was promoted to replace Millen I scoffed but damn was I wrong. He has hit a grand slam in Detroit and what he and Schwartz have accomplished in 2 years is amazing. Keep in mind the Lions were 0-16 one year after our current clowns assumed control. He is my first choice without question.

Mike Tannenbaum - GM of the Jets. Has done an excellent job in building them mixing vets with young guys and making the right coaching hire. You will have to pay him top dollar to lure him away and promote him but either he or Mayhew would be an excellent hire

Thomas Dmitroff - GM of Atlanta. Hired when Parcells was hired and has done a nice job of getting his franchise QB and surrounding him with talent. Not afraid to make deals to upgrade his team. A significant drop from Tannenbaum or Mayhew but still a GM of interest.

Discuss.


I doubt Miami has a shot at getting any of those guys, but I think the model is correct. I tried to tell people a while back that Martin Mayhew was the best up and coming GM in the league in this thread right here....

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?297891-What-team-has-the-best-Draft-Board



He makes Jeff Ireland look like Wanny.



I think I'd go after a guy like Tom Heckert as the GM, and let him hire his own coach. If I had my preferrence, it'd be Jeff Fisher. I'd let the dominos fall into place, because I trust Fisher to put a solid staff of assistant coaches together.
 

datruth55

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We won't get any of the 3 mentioned. Their current teams are happy with them and you can't tamper with their front office guys to lure them here even if their current teams weren't happy. It's just like tampering with a player who's going to become a free agent or a coach that may be on the hot seat. If the NFL finds out you could forfeit draft picks.
 

MadDog 88

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We won't get any of the 3 mentioned. Their current teams are happy with them and you can't tamper with their front office guys to lure them here even if their current teams weren't happy. It's just like tampering with a player who's going to become a free agent or a coach that may be on the hot seat. If the NFL finds out you could forfeit draft picks.
It is not tampering if they are being interviewed for a promotion, hence the title of President or VP of football operations.
 

flynryan15

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I doubt Miami has a shot at getting any of those guys, but I think the model is correct. I tried to tell people a while back that Martin Mayhew was the best up and coming GM in the league in this thread right here....

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?297891-What-team-has-the-best-Draft-Board



He makes Jeff Ireland look like Wanny.



I think I'd go after a guy like Tom Heckert as the GM, and let him hire his own coach. If I had my preferrence, it'd be Jeff Fisher. I'd let the dominos fall into place, because I trust Fisher to put a solid staff of assistant coaches together.
Go sit in the corner!

Hey maybe we van hire Parcells call him a football czar or something?
 
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