Teambuilding 101

[Feverdream]

Now that we're starting to talk about the final roster (and the Practice Squad), I thought I might weigh in on some theories about setting your roster.

The first idea that I'd like to loudly take issue with is the misguided notion that you break camp with your best 53. Every year, I see posters screaming that "Smart teams do this", when this just ain't so. I can hear them now, "Fever, you've lost your mind... again. Everybody knows that you have to be all in on winning right now or fans won't come to the stadium! You gotz to take yer bestest players!!!"

Well, no... you don't cut your early round picks because a 32-year-old vet is outperforming the new guy currently. Right? Of course not. Nor do you keep a 28-year-old backup who doesn't play any special teams over a 24-year-old rookie who does. So... no, you don't keep your 'best' 53. There are many roles on a team that do not show up on that stat sheet.

A smart GM also weighs a player's potential vs. their 'now'. We've touched on this before when we've discussed draft theory. Do you take a mediocre player from a major conference who is likely tapped out, or do you take a shot on a guy from a minor conference who hasn't received the same coaching and training regimen? The same thing applies to that final 53; you just might protect the player that you believe will be better in the long run, over the useful immediate return.

...and this leads me back to the Practice Squad. First of all, let's be honest. Very few players make the leap from PS to the main roster the following year... Very few, and the ones that do, are mostly bottom of the roster types who never really flourish into a long-term starter. Oh it happens, so don't bother giving me one of the few examples who have managed it, but it doesn't happen often or with a very large percentage of your guys.

So the PS is worthless? Right?

Well, no... they are your tackling dummies during the week before the game. If you can get guys to continually emulate what your upcoming foes are going to do, then you've got a viable PS member. For some of these guys, intelligence and the ability to mimic 4 different ways of playing football can be VERY valuable. My take is that the guys who spend 2-4 years on a practice squad are JUST these kind of guys.

Will they ever play many games in the NFL... not a chance in Hell. My guess... there might be 3-4 players on the entire PS that have any hopes whatsoever. So my take on whether a player should be stashed is... is he one of those 3-4 guys or is he just a tackling dummy? The rest of your PS has include a certain number of players from each position just to manage a full practice schedule. (For instance, you'll need one TE, 3 linemen, 2 WRs, a RB, etc... and you may cut a 'better player' just so you can have enough of a different position to run a decent practice.)

Now... given what I've said above, how do you construct your 53 and your PS for maximum efficiency while still trying to win, and protecting players who are not succeeding... yet. Good luck...

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

If he has a good camp and plays well in preseason games, Thompson might make the 53.

Miami could weigh the fact that he won't play in 2022 against the chances that another team will sign him before the Dolphins can stash him on the practice squad.

 

[Feverdream]

If he has a good camp and plays well in preseason games, Thompson might make the 53.

Miami could weigh the fact that he won't play in 2022 against the chances that another team will sign him before the Dolphins can stash him on the practice squad.

I think so too.
Carrying 3 QBs isn't the norm, but it is done by a few teams. What it really costs you is one special teams player.
If you get to the end of camp, and you really think a young QB can be your 2nd string guy in his second year, it's a no-brainer.

 

[AMakados10]

If you polled the forum before the 2021 draft if using three #1s, a 2nd, and all those other draft picks plus the richest WR contract for 2 WRs was good team building 101, I’m pretty sure the winning option would’ve been “you’re out of your ****ing mind.”

 

[Feverdream]

If you polled the forum before the 2021 draft if using three #1s, a 2nd, and all those other draft picks plus the richest WR contract for 2 WRs was good team building 101, I’m pretty sure the winning option would’ve been “you’re out of your ****ing mind.”

Actually... I think most folks would have been okay with that.
The general tilt of this board is toward open worship of name players, and when the name player is an actual top 5 offensive weapon, most of them will pony up whatever is asked.

I would suggest that about half of this board would trade our #1 for a 'name' any day of the week.... sadly.

 

[Jamesw]

True. But half of this board dont even read or research our beloved Dolphins or player prospects in any depth . They just comment based on a headline or sound bite just trying to feel relevant.

I’m very pleased with our latest offseason moves, however I will always believe in the draft and developing players internally. Hopefully we have a balance with regard to team building.

I appreciate your analysis and effort you put into it Brother Fever.

 

[Bridgeburner]

Now that we're starting to talk about the final roster (and the Practice Squad), I thought I might weigh in on some theories about setting your roster.

The first idea that I'd like to loudly take issue with is the misguided notion that you break camp with your best 53. Every year, I see posters screaming that "Smart teams do this", when this just ain't so. I can hear them now, "Fever, you've lost your mind... again. Everybody knows that you have to be all in on winning right now or fans won't come to the stadium! You gotz to take yer bestest players!!!"

Well, no... you don't cut your early round picks because a 32-year-old vet is outperforming the new guy currently. Right? Of course not. Nor do you keep a 28-year-old backup who doesn't play any special teams over a 24-year-old rookie who does. So... no, you don't keep your 'best' 53. There are many roles on a team that do not show up on that stat sheet.

A smart GM also weighs a player's potential vs. their 'now'. We've touched on this before when we've discussed draft theory. Do you take a mediocre player from a major conference who is likely tapped out, or do you take a shot on a guy from a minor conference who hasn't received the same coaching and training regimen? The same thing applies to that final 53; you just might protect the player that you believe will be better in the long run, over the useful immediate return.

...and this leads me back to the Practice Squad. First of all, let's be honest. Very few players make the leap from PS to the main roster the following year... Very few, and the ones that do, are mostly bottom of the roster types who never really flourish into a long-term starter. Oh it happens, so don't bother giving me one of the few examples who have managed it, but it doesn't happen often or with a very large percentage of your guys.

So the PS is worthless? Right?

Well, no... they are your tackling dummies during the week before the game. If you can get guys to continually emulate what your upcoming foes are going to do, then you've got a viable PS member. For some of these guys, intelligence and the ability to mimic 4 different ways of playing football can be VERY valuable. My take is that the guys who spend 2-4 years on a practice squad are JUST these kind of guys.

Will they ever play many games in the NFL... not a chance in Hell. My guess... there might be 3-4 players on the entire PS that have any hopes whatsoever. So my take on whether a player should be stashed is... is he one of those 3-4 guys or is he just a tackling dummy? The rest of your PS has include a certain number of players from each position just to manage a full practice schedule. (For instance, you'll need one TE, 3 linemen, 2 WRs, a RB, etc... and you may cut a 'better player' just so you can have enough of a different position to run a decent practice.)

Now... given what I've said above, how do you construct your 53 and your PS for maximum efficiency while still trying to win, and protecting players who are not succeeding... yet. Good luck...

You seem to argue with imaginary people a lot.

 

[NBP81]

If you polled the forum before the 2021 draft if using three #1s, a 2nd, and all those other draft picks plus the richest WR contract for 2 WRs was good team building 101

Since you're using the before the 21 draft timeline, this heavily depends on how you look at the situation. You are correct that the Fins did use 3x 1st and a 2nd to acquire these 2 players, but thats not the bottom line cost of these 2 players. Before the 21 draft, Fins had pick #3. Pick bank: 1

Fins traded #3 for 2021 #12 + 2022 1st + 2022 3rd + 2023 1st. Pick bank: 1st + 1st + 1st + 3rd

Fins traded #12 + 2022 1st for 2021 #6. Pick bank: 1st + 1st + 3rd

Fins picked Waddle: with #6. Pick bank: 1st + 3rd

Fins trade 1st + 2nd. Pick bank: 0

The real cost for acquiring Waddle and Hill was #3 overall and a 2nd to 3rd round swap. Didnt mention the chump change picks because in the end, they dont change much value wise. As for the contract, sure you usually want to draft WRs but the fact Waddle is on his rookie contract for a while does balance things out for the unit somewhat.

 

[Andyman]

Now that we're starting to talk about the final roster (and the Practice Squad), I thought I might weigh in on some theories about setting your roster.

The first idea that I'd like to loudly take issue with is the misguided notion that you break camp with your best 53. Every year, I see posters screaming that "Smart teams do this", when this just ain't so. I can hear them now, "Fever, you've lost your mind... again. Everybody knows that you have to be all in on winning right now or fans won't come to the stadium! You gotz to take yer bestest players!!!"

Well, no... you don't cut your early round picks because a 32-year-old vet is outperforming the new guy currently. Right? Of course not. Nor do you keep a 28-year-old backup who doesn't play any special teams over a 24-year-old rookie who does. So... no, you don't keep your 'best' 53. There are many roles on a team that do not show up on that stat sheet.

A smart GM also weighs a player's potential vs. their 'now'. We've touched on this before when we've discussed draft theory. Do you take a mediocre player from a major conference who is likely tapped out, or do you take a shot on a guy from a minor conference who hasn't received the same coaching and training regimen? The same thing applies to that final 53; you just might protect the player that you believe will be better in the long run, over the useful immediate return.

...and this leads me back to the Practice Squad. First of all, let's be honest. Very few players make the leap from PS to the main roster the following year... Very few, and the ones that do, are mostly bottom of the roster types who never really flourish into a long-term starter. Oh it happens, so don't bother giving me one of the few examples who have managed it, but it doesn't happen often or with a very large percentage of your guys.

So the PS is worthless? Right?

Well, no... they are your tackling dummies during the week before the game. If you can get guys to continually emulate what your upcoming foes are going to do, then you've got a viable PS member. For some of these guys, intelligence and the ability to mimic 4 different ways of playing football can be VERY valuable. My take is that the guys who spend 2-4 years on a practice squad are JUST these kind of guys.

Will they ever play many games in the NFL... not a chance in Hell. My guess... there might be 3-4 players on the entire PS that have any hopes whatsoever. So my take on whether a player should be stashed is... is he one of those 3-4 guys or is he just a tackling dummy? The rest of your PS has include a certain number of players from each position just to manage a full practice schedule. (For instance, you'll need one TE, 3 linemen, 2 WRs, a RB, etc... and you may cut a 'better player' just so you can have enough of a different position to run a decent practice.)

Now... given what I've said above, how do you construct your 53 and your PS for maximum efficiency while still trying to win, and protecting players who are not succeeding... yet. Good luck...

Such a well written and thoughtful write up. I think you pretty much nailed it.

No question “best 53” isn’t a reality nor frankly is “the best guys are going to start.” Depending on where you’re at with your team, you may prefer to start a young player that’s not as good as the vet option on your team just to accelerate their development. It will probably cost you wins on the short term but theoretically pays off in the long term if they’re the players you thought they were.

I think that’s something the “good teams” do - look big picture. Having your finger on which young player to insert in the lineup now because they’re soon to pass the vet ahead of them and which guys (ie Noah I.) need to sit because they’re simply not ready and the vets and miles ahead of them.

What the Fins do with the final 53 at the WR position has me particularly intrigued.

Great post Feverdream!

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Now that we're starting to talk about the final roster (and the Practice Squad), I thought I might weigh in on some theories about setting your roster.

The first idea that I'd like to loudly take issue with is the misguided notion that you break camp with your best 53. Every year, I see posters screaming that "Smart teams do this", when this just ain't so. I can hear them now, "Fever, you've lost your mind... again. Everybody knows that you have to be all in on winning right now or fans won't come to the stadium! You gotz to take yer bestest players!!!"

Well, no... you don't cut your early round picks because a 32-year-old vet is outperforming the new guy currently. Right? Of course not. Nor do you keep a 28-year-old backup who doesn't play any special teams over a 24-year-old rookie who does. So... no, you don't keep your 'best' 53. There are many roles on a team that do not show up on that stat sheet.

A smart GM also weighs a player's potential vs. their 'now'. We've touched on this before when we've discussed draft theory. Do you take a mediocre player from a major conference who is likely tapped out, or do you take a shot on a guy from a minor conference who hasn't received the same coaching and training regimen? The same thing applies to that final 53; you just might protect the player that you believe will be better in the long run, over the useful immediate return.

...and this leads me back to the Practice Squad. First of all, let's be honest. Very few players make the leap from PS to the main roster the following year... Very few, and the ones that do, are mostly bottom of the roster types who never really flourish into a long-term starter. Oh it happens, so don't bother giving me one of the few examples who have managed it, but it doesn't happen often or with a very large percentage of your guys.

So the PS is worthless? Right?

Well, no... they are your tackling dummies during the week before the game. If you can get guys to continually emulate what your upcoming foes are going to do, then you've got a viable PS member. For some of these guys, intelligence and the ability to mimic 4 different ways of playing football can be VERY valuable. My take is that the guys who spend 2-4 years on a practice squad are JUST these kind of guys.

Will they ever play many games in the NFL... not a chance in Hell. My guess... there might be 3-4 players on the entire PS that have any hopes whatsoever. So my take on whether a player should be stashed is... is he one of those 3-4 guys or is he just a tackling dummy? The rest of your PS has include a certain number of players from each position just to manage a full practice schedule. (For instance, you'll need one TE, 3 linemen, 2 WRs, a RB, etc... and you may cut a 'better player' just so you can have enough of a different position to run a decent practice.)

Now... given what I've said above, how do you construct your 53 and your PS for maximum efficiency while still trying to win, and protecting players who are not succeeding... yet. Good luck...

Such a well written and thoughtful write up. I think you pretty much nailed it.

No question “best 53” isn’t a reality nor frankly is “the best guys are going to start.” Depending on where you’re at with your team, you may prefer to start a young player that’s not as good as the vet option on your team just to accelerate their development. It will probably cost you wins on the short term but theoretically pays off in the long term if they’re the players you thought they were.

I think that’s something the “good teams” do - look big picture. Having your finger on which young player to insert in the lineup now because they’re soon to pass the vet ahead of them and which guys (ie Noah I.) need to sit because they’re simply not ready and the vets and miles ahead of them.

What the Fins do with the final 53 at the WR position has me particularly intrigued.

Great post Feverdream!

The hurdle is defining "best" 53. Talent? Potential? Scheme fit. You (correctly) mentioned a number of the variables, but there are numerous flavors. Much like best 11 on the field. Depends on what the opposition is doing, down/distance, field position, . . . "Best" is not static.
Good writeup

 

[BC Phins4Life]

Since you're using the before the 21 draft timeline, this heavily depends on how you look at the situation. You are correct that the Fins did use 3x 1st and a 2nd to acquire these 2 players, but thats not the bottom line cost of these 2 players. Before the 21 draft, Fins had pick #3. Pick bank: 1

Fins traded #3 for 2021 #12 + 2022 1st + 2022 3rd + 2023 1st. Pick bank: 1st + 1st + 1st + 3rd

Fins traded #12 + 2022 1st for 2021 #6. Pick bank: 1st + 1st + 3rd

Fins picked Waddle: with #6. Pick bank: 1st + 3rd

Fins trade 1st + 2nd. Pick bank: 0

The real cost for acquiring Waddle and Hill was #3 overall and a 2nd to 3rd round swap. Didnt mention the chump change picks because in the end, they dont change much value wise. As for the contract, sure you usually want to draft WRs but the fact Waddle is on his rookie contract for a while does balance things out for the unit somewhat.

Gets even crazier to look at when that 3 cam from the Tunsil trade!

Would be awesome if it was just Tunsil for Hill and Waddle...

 

[Mach2]

The hurdle is defining "best" 53. Talent? Potential? Scheme fit. You (correctly) mentioned a number of the variables, but there are numerous flavors. Much like best 11 on the field. Depends on what the opposition is doing, down/distance, field position, . . . "Best" is not static.
Good writeup

Completely agree. It kind of reminds me of the adage about the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Having the best possible "team" is not always about having the 53 best individuals.

I also agree with @Feverdream that at times you may roster a young, developing player over an aging vet, even though the vet may be "better" in the short term, particularly when you are talking about the bottom two thirds of the roster.

 

[Andyman]

The hurdle is defining "best" 53. Talent? Potential? Scheme fit. You (correctly) mentioned a number of the variables, but there are numerous flavors. Much like best 11 on the field. Depends on what the opposition is doing, down/distance, field position, . . . "Best" is not static.
Good writeup

That’s true. The o-line unit is like that. Not necessarily the best five guys but the best five man unit

 

[NY8123]

Since you're using the before the 21 draft timeline, this heavily depends on how you look at the situation. You are correct that the Fins did use 3x 1st and a 2nd to acquire these 2 players, but thats not the bottom line cost of these 2 players. Before the 21 draft, Fins had pick #3. Pick bank: 1

Fins traded #3 for 2021 #12 + 2022 1st + 2022 3rd + 2023 1st. Pick bank: 1st + 1st + 1st + 3rd

Fins traded #12 + 2022 1st for 2021 #6. Pick bank: 1st + 1st + 3rd

Fins picked Waddle: with #6. Pick bank: 1st + 3rd

Fins trade 1st + 2nd. Pick bank: 0

The real cost for acquiring Waddle and Hill was #3 overall and a 2nd to 3rd round swap. Didnt mention the chump change picks because in the end, they dont change much value wise. As for the contract, sure you usually want to draft WRs but the fact Waddle is on his rookie contract for a while does balance things out for the unit somewhat.

And this Tunsil trade thing ain't over yet.

If Tua does what we expect him to do and win and San Fran tanks and a QB panic erupts in the 2023 draft Miami can still cash in on those two 1st rounds picks for even more capital. It's insane if this goes right Miami can finagle more 1st out of that Tunsil deal.

 

[phinzfan21]

Great post.