Ted Ginn/Marvin Harrison/Torry Holt discussion!

[Denny]

I think the problem most fans have with Ted Ginn is where he was drafted (1st round #9 overall) and the fact he is not your typical dominant #1 WR like a Roddy White or Andre Johnson. However, the problem with most fans disappointment with Ted Ginn is they have pigeonholed him into wanting him to be a physical dominant WR. We all know Ted Gin is not a physical WR that will make jump ball type catches over a corner. If you are disappointed because he will not run over someone to get an extra yard or he gets down to avoid a hit, well you are setting yourself up for more grief because he will not do those things like a big physical WR. This leads me to the comparison of Ted Ginn to Marvin Harrison and or Tory Holt. I bet every fan would be happy to have Harrison or Holt in there prime running routes for Miami. I think Ted Ginn has every bit the talent those two WRs had in there prime. The difference being St. Louis or Indy never asked Marvin or Tory to make a physical jump ball catch nor did they ever ask those two too run over safeties or be physical. What they asked was for those two to get vertical down the field and catch the ball IN STRIDE in a vertical passing game. If Ted Ginn were playing for Indy right now, he would never have been put in a position to play physical jump ball WR. On that play where he dropped the ball at the end of the game, if Ted were playing for Indy, he would have been given a vertical strong throw in timing where he would just have to catch the ball in stride.

My point is Ted is a vertical non physical WR capable of putting up WR1 numbers in the right offense. How many times did you see Marvin Harrison do jump ball catches or run over a safety. I challenge you one time to show me a catch by Marvin Harrison like the one we asked Ted to make at the end of the game. How many times did you Marvin Harrison get down before a crushing hit. All the time. If Ted were on Indy right now, he would lead the league in TD receptions over 40 yards, put up 1200 yards, and catch 85 passes. I challenge you to say that he is not a WR1 with those numbers.

Ted is playing in a offense that plays ball control and short passing. In this offense, where the QB cannot throw deep, you need your number 1 to be a physical jump ball WR. Dont blame Ted because he is on the wrong team playing in the wrong system. He just doesnt fit in THIS offense. However, I am sure Indy, Atlanta, NO would love him and he would put up amazing numbers. JMHO.

 

[phinphan4life]

I completely agree with everything you said except.... Ted Ginn still has to make those catches.

 

[Denny]

One more thing, I love NFL draft profiles by Drew Boylhart from huddlereport. in my opinion, he is one of the best talent evaluators in the business and NFL teams use his scouting reports. Here is his draft profile on Ted:

Ted Ginn WR Ohio St



STRENGTHS

Ted Ginn is an impact WR with the potential to be as good as Marvin Harrison (WR Colts). His speed is scary because along with his speed, he has excellent quickness. Ted is the type of player you have to game plan for just because he will be on the field. He has good body control to adjust to the ball in the air and loves to catch the deep ball. Ted is still learning the WR position and with his speed and potential to catch the deep ball, he will be a dangerous weapon for the team that drafts him.



NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Ted has so much more to learn about his position. He must bulk up without losing his speed and quickness. He has to become more consistent catching the ball and running all the routes that are required of an NFL receiver -- not just the long ball. He has to learn to deal with the bump coverages and just a whole bunch of other issues that at the college level do not matter because of his speed.



TALENT BOARD ROUND: 1
Ted needs to become a student of the game to become a true NFL wide receiver – it’s just that simple. Right now, I think that he thinks he’s just going to walk onto a NFL team and set the world on fire. It’s very possible that because of his speed, this could happen until the rest of the NFL starts to concentrate on him and defend him. That’s when the wheels could come off really fast. If Ted does not become a student of the game and learn the tricks of the trade, he runs the risk of being an average WR with great speed always ready to break out. That old saying that you can’t teach speed is true, but once you have speed at the NFL level, you need to be taught how to use it. Ted should be a weapon at the next level, but it might take some time before he becomes a consistent weapon. A weapon that will worry defensive coordinators like Marvin Harrison does. A weapon that maybe some day will open the way for others on his team to be successful. I think he will do it.

Drew Boylhart

December/2006

 

[NYinBostonFin]

I don't care about his draft status, even a #2 WR catches a pass that hits his hands.

 

[Denny]

Ok...he dropped a pass he should have caught. He still caught 11 balls yesterday. So why are you so critical then only after one drop ball? Have you not seen WR in NFL drop a pass?

I think your critical not because he dropped the game winner but because he is not the physical jump ball WR you need in THIS OFFENSE!. It does not mean Ted is not a good WR. He just isnt in THIS OFFENSE!.

 

[walt]

You make a good point. Perhaps Ginn's skills don't match well with Penny's, but for some reason Ginn was the primary option last night. I saw sure-handed Camarillo get one ball thrown his way last night, which he caught. Was he not able to get open otherwise?

 

[Denny]

Camarillo was open several times in middle of field. However, Chad really did a poor job of going thru his progressions. Just a bad day by Chad.

 

[NY8123]

It wasn't a bad day by Chad or a dropped pass by Ginn that blew the game for the Dolphins.

When you let Dallas Clark go 7 receptions for 183 yards and a TD, that was the kick to the balls that brought Miami to its knees.

The five other receivers for the Colts only had 120 yards combine. Ginn by the numbers was the second best receiver on the field that day and yes he probably should have made the catch in the end zone but if you ask me Miami shouldn't have had to throw to the end zone, the game should have been sealed on the drive prior.

 

[EJay]

Ok...he dropped a pass he should have caught. He still caught 11 balls yesterday. So why are you so critical then only after one drop ball? Have you not seen WR in NFL drop a pass?

Obviously he didn't watch any highlights this weekend. Terrell Owens dropped an easy catch that would have resulted in a big gain and possibly a TD.

Some other receiver (can't recall who or what team right now but I bet someone else will) had a catchable TD pass bounce off his facemask. ESPN had the highlight as part of their "C'Mon man" segment.

Drops happen. I just hope Ginn doesn't make a habit of drops like the one on Monday night.

On the bright side, at least the drop didn't happen in the Super Bowl with the game on the line ala Jackie Harris.

 

[VT Dolphan]

I'm not expecting him to be some huge, tough WR bulldozing safeties downfield like Boldin or Brandon Marshall. But it just seems like he's scared. EVERY SINGLE TIME he catches the ball, what does he do? Immediately turns to get out of bounds, or dives to the ground to prevent a hit. I will definitely admit there are situations where that is the smart thing to do. But c'mon man, at least TRY to pick up a yard or two after the catch.

I'm almost curious as to what percentage of Ginn's receiving yards come after the catch. I would be willing to bet it's one of the lowest in the NFL.

 

[Denny]

I am willing to bet that if Ginn had a QB that could hit him deep IN STRIDE that he would have one of the better YAC's in the league. It is hard to get YAC when the only pass your QB can make is a 10 yard stop route or a 15 yard curl in FRONT of safeties. The whole point of this thread was to say Ginn's skills would be better served getting balls thrown to him by in vertical passing games like Atlanta, NO, or Indy. He would have 85 catches, 1200 yards and 7 tds no problem in those offense because they could hit the deep ball.

How many deep passes has Teddy caught in this offense? Are you telling me Teddy cant get deep on someone? Then why hasnt he caught a deep ball in three years? Can you imaging the possibilities if the DB knew he could get beat deep with his world class speed. The intermediate YAC would open big time. We just dont have the offense or QB to get that done. It is not Teddy's fault.

 

[Denny]

When Teddy has a QB that can get him the ball in STRIDE, big things happen. I would say Teddy has been open like that at leat 10 to 15 times in the last 3 years but the QB could not connect due to lack of talent at QB position. Now you will see what I am talking about!!!!