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The Grier Debate Is Over - Hopefully We Have The Right Guy To Fix It!

No, Tannenbaum was not in charge of those drafts. Here’s Tannenbaum himself before the 2016 saying Grier was running the draft:

(On how the draft process will work among the staff) - "Chris (Grier) is running the draft. Chris has put a grade on every player, and we've already hashed out where we want to go with things for the most part. We have some more tweaking to do, but we're really going to let the board dictate, and that has really been based on the final grade that Chris has put on each player."


And here’s Grier in 2019 confirming that he had final say on draft decions for the prior 3 drafts:

(Before you came in, we were having a debate about the last three years whether you had final say in the draft. Did you have final say in the draft the last three years?) – “Yes, I did. It was a collaboration, as you know. You know me, as we talked about, I’m not going to force a coach to take a player, because that doesn’t work. If the coach doesn’t want a player and I say, ‘No, we’re taking him,’ and then it works out one way or the other, good; but if it doesn’t, it creates that animosity and then the distrust and it’s not worth it, because you’ve been around here long enough and you’ve seen a lot of that happen. I’m not going to force any player on anyone. But yes, I had the final say.”

(So is this year any different?) – “No. You know me, I’m going to be very collaborative and that’s the only way it works. Again, you guys have all heard stories here and stuff from the past. It’s a combination of coaching staff, personnel, all working together, having the same vision, getting on the same page together of picking the players that we feel are good fits for us as an organization.”


Plenty of other sources say differently as well as the irrefutable fact that Grier reported to Tannebaum. I’m not sure what type of work experience you have but typically the guy lower in the company doesn’t have final say.

I’m sure grier put a ton of work into the draft and I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve any credit however if you were to redo your data using only 2019 and on when we know for certain there was nobody above him and he indisputably had full control, it’d tell a much different story. He pretty much never replicates 2016 or 2018 despite having far more picks as well higher quality draft positions in the next 7 years is pretty telling of who had final say.

Not only that but as gm despite having some hits whether his or not may be debatable, what’s not debatable is that part of that gm job is to retain talent. Does it really matter if you draft an all pro or pro bowler but that all pro came from being on another team like Tunsil/minkah/hunt/van ginkel?
 
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The new guy Sullivan has an enormous amount of work to do. On top of the data in the following tweet, there is a salary cap mess to clean up as well. The good news, look who is on the top of the list. There seems to be decent, although not perfect correlation between the data in this list, and team success. The other vector is time, which is not included, but I suspect better drafting also leads to more durable performance. Regardless, where the Dolphins are on this list is unacceptable. This is part of why we have a roster full of bandaids and a poor cap situation. This problem needs to be cleaned up for us to be good on a sustained basis. They are barking up the right tree in theory with the new guy and his stated approach, hopefully the execution by the GM is good and the owner is patient and allows him to do his job the way he claims to want to do it:


Wow! That's definitely a good sign, it means they have drafted well all while staying competitive, which is key. It's one thing to have a bunch of guys you drafted start a lot of games, and you're not so good, but to do that and be competitive while doing it is another. You're doing something right. I was not surprised to see us at the bottom of this list.
 
Plenty of other sources say differently as well as the irrefutable fact that Grier reported to Tannebaum. I’m not sure what type of work experience you have but typically the guy lower in the company doesn’t have final say.

I’m sure grier put a ton of work into the draft and I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve any credit however if you were to redo your data using only 2019 and on when we know for certain there was nobody above him and he indisputably had full control, it’d tell a much different story. He pretty much never replicates 2016 or 2018 despite having far more picks as well higher quality draft positions in the next 7 years is pretty telling of who had final say.

Not only that but as gm despite having some hits whether his or not may be debatable, what’s not debatable is that part of that gm job is to retain talent. Does it really matter if you draft an all pro or pro bowler but that all pro came from being on another team like Tunsil/minkah/hunt/van ginkel?

Those other reports are pretty clearly wrong, as both Tannenbaum and Grier both explicitly made clear.

If you have worked in any kind of semi-functional organization, you surely understand that the person at the top doesn’t make all decisions. Many people beneath them make decisions in their respective fields of expertise. Tannenbaum reported to Ross, but that surely doesn’t mean Ross was making all the draft decisions. Tannenbaum was not a scout or talent evaluator. He didn’t make the draft decisions under Grier’s predecessor at GM, Dennis Hickey,either:

"All roster decisions rest with Dennis," Tannenbaum assured reporters during Friday's pre-draft press conference, per ESPN.com. Tannenbaum also emphasized that Hickey holds final say over Miami's six draft picks.”

 
Wow! That's definitely a good sign, it means they have drafted well all while staying competitive, which is key. It's one thing to have a bunch of guys you drafted start a lot of games, and you're not so good, but to do that and be competitive while doing it is another. You're doing something right. I was not surprised to see us at the bottom of this list.
yes. totally agree. my suspicion is better drafting also leads to better duration of success as well
 
Those other reports are pretty clearly wrong, as both Tannenbaum and Grier both explicitly made clear.

If you have worked in any kind of semi-functional organization, you surely understand that the person at the top doesn’t make all decisions. Many people beneath them make decisions in their respective fields of expertise. Tannenbaum reported to Ross, but that surely doesn’t mean Ross was making all the draft decisions. Tannenbaum was not a scout or talent evaluator. He didn’t make the draft decisions under Grier’s predecessor at GM, Dennis Hickey,either:

"All roster decisions rest with Dennis," Tannenbaum assured reporters during Friday's pre-draft press conference, per ESPN.com. Tannenbaum also emphasized that Hickey holds final say over Miami's six draft picks.”


Yes hickey made the picks prior until he was fired and Tannebaum was put in charge while Grier was puppeted and reported to Tannebaum. Also yes Tannebaum was a talent evaluator, he was a gm for 7 years prior to coming to Miami.

You ignored the rest of the post as well.
 
Good point. A team can be improved quickly if they have a decent foundation because previous GMs prioritized building through the draft and believed that you win in the trenches. However, in Miami it's going to take longer because Grier's legacy is a roster full of holes, issues in the trenches, underperforming players, injury-prone players, and bad contracts. He even stated that he and McDaniel weren't worried about the o-line!
EXACTLY. like if you only had say i dunno, your the raiders crap roster alot of cap.. you got something you can work with, whilst you fix the other

or say the bills good roster no cap, you have something to work with whilst you fix the other

Miami has.. no decent roster/self drafted players.. well a few but not enough to build from.. and no cap so its a double your ****ed, and people really need to understand that before they start waiting with baited breath to come down on the new hc and gm.. they have to right alot of messes before they can even start to build properly
 
Yes hickey made the picks prior until he was fired and Tannebaum was put in charge while Grier was puppeted and reported to Tannebaum. Also yes Tannebaum was a talent evaluator, he was a gm for 7 years prior to coming to Miami.

You ignored the rest of the post as well.

He was a GM and did have draft control in New York but was a lawyer and not himself a talent evaluator. He did not have final say on the draft in Miami from at least 2015 on. He said that himself explicitly and that was echoed and confirmed by the guys who did have final say.
 
The new guy Sullivan has an enormous amount of work to do. On top of the data in the following tweet, there is a salary cap mess to clean up as well. The good news, look who is on the top of the list. There seems to be decent, although not perfect correlation between the data in this list, and team success. The other vector is time, which is not included, but I suspect better drafting also leads to more durable performance. Regardless, where the Dolphins are on this list is unacceptable. This is part of why we have a roster full of bandaids and a poor cap situation. This problem needs to be cleaned up for us to be good on a sustained basis. They are barking up the right tree in theory with the new guy and his stated approach, hopefully the execution by the GM is good and the owner is patient and allows him to do his job the way he claims to want to do it:


OMFG that number is absolutely insane!

122 compared to 563?

Just insane.
 
OMFG that number is absolutely insane!

122 compared to 563?

Just insane.
that is exactly right. no way to justify that performance. as they say baloney is still baloney, no matter how thin you slice it. sullivan comes from a place that was at the top of the list. hopefully he can replicate that performance here. hopefully ownership gives him the leeway to do it. first thing, sadly, is there is a big mess to clean up with what was left in terms of bad contracts and roster holes. there is a lot on his plate. i cannot even begin to do the math, it is his job to figure it out.
 
that is exactly right. no way to justify that performance. as they say baloney is still baloney, no matter how thin you slice it. sullivan comes from a place that was at the top of the list. hopefully he can replicate that performance here. hopefully ownership gives him the leeway to do it. first thing, sadly, is there is a big mess to clean up with what was left in terms of bad contracts and roster holes. there is a lot on his plate. i cannot even begin to do the math, it is his job to figure it out.

It’s also really good perspective on our new GM. We have always been making these exciting splash moves — kings of the offseason — that got us nowhere.

Here’s hoping dude only keeps getting better. Because most professionals do.
 
Thats what happens when you dont resign your drafted players and you load up on expensive vets.
 
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