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The Hard Truth: Gus & The Offensive Line

flintsilver7

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One thing I have noticed this season is that Dolphins fans can be extremely stubborn at times. I had never really noticed there was such a sharp divide here, with some people blindly defending Gus and being absolutely unable to objectively look at the facts.

I'll state mostly facts here with some opinions.

1) Gus Frerotte is a below-average quarterback. In fact, that's generous. According to the numbers - http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PRAT/2005/regular - he's actually the third worst in the league. You'll notice there are currently two guys behind him. One of them, Michael Vick, has only one reliable target in Alge Crumpler. He plays in a heavily run-centric offense and also doubles as a third running back. His weak quarterback play, as it were, is certainly mitigated by other factors. He's not an accurate passer, though he does have a strong arm. (Sound familiar?) The other, Kyle Orton, is a rookie with seven starts under his belt on a very weak offensive team. He has only one reliable target as well - Muhsin Muhammad. It's probably worth noting that Orton has been improving and at his current pace will be ranked higher than Frerotte next week. Of course, that's purely speculation. My point in all of this is that quarterback play is not why we've won the games we've won. It's obvious with the other teams represented there that have winning records - Chicago and Atlanta have strong running games and good defenses. Also worth nothing is that Gus has three solid targets - Chambers, McMichael and Booker - and most of the other guys on that list towards the bottom have no such talent to surround them.

2) Gus is a 12-year veteran with a long and mediocre career. Yes, he made the Pro Bowl in 1996. His numbers were unspectacular - a 79.6 rating, which this year would put him tied for 20th with Brian Griese - but he still made it. Personally, even if he had posted a 120 QB rating, I wouldn't care, because what he did 9 years ago on a completely different team has absolutely no bearing on what is happening now. He has ALWAYS been inaccurate. He has ALWAYS crumbled under pressure. His poor numbers this year, sadly, are not too far off from his career averages. He's always been a backup. As an every-week starter, Frerotte only got worse. His problems are physical, as has been said, and not mental. They're not going to get fixed.

3) Miami's offensive line gets blamed left and right. While last year's line was horrible - clearly, there was no doubt about this - this year's line is significantly improved. By the numbers, Miami actually has one of the league's best lines. Gus has been sacked 12 times this year. Six of them came on either the second-last or the last possession in the four losses. One of them, last week, was widely attributed to Gus holding the ball far too long. Blitzes are far more likely to succeed on obvious passing downs - this we know. Let's talk about numbers. There are two solid metrics to determine the line's efficiency. One is rushing yardage per carry, and the other is sacks allowed per pass attempt. While the abilities of both the quarterback and the running back factor in, those are not easily measured. They affect each other, as it were - Jake Plummer is ten times better in Denver than he was elsewhere. Using a straight average of these two numbers, Miami's line is ranked third in the league. (The top ten, in order: Denver, Indianapolis, Miami, New York Giants, San Diego/Seattle (tied), Cincinnati, Kansas City, Atlanta, and St. Louis. The bottom ten, starting with the worst: New York Jets, Arizona, Dallas, San Francisco, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Baltimore, and Houston.) Some might look out of place. Some look to be right in place. Take these numbers for what you will, but my point is that it's not the line's fault.

Sidebar: Surely somebody will say that Ronnie's long runs skew our rushing average, and without those we're actually at x.xx yards per carry and so on. Well, there are numbers on this as well. Does it happen? Sure. Miami is 6th in the league of runs of 20+, and 7th in the league of runs of 20+ per rushing attempt. (Top 10 in Rushing Plays of 20+ per Attempt: Atlanta, Denver, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, New York Giants, Miami, San Francisco, Chicago, and St. Louis.) You'll notice that even bad teams - with bad offensive lines by the numbers - can occasionally break long runs. This alone doesn't skew anything, though. Tampa and San Francisco still can't pass block (ranked 26th and 30th, respectively) while being average at run blocking (tied for 15th). However, the trend is that the better lines allow for more long runs.

4) Gus has not had to deal with incorrect routes and dropped passes any more than any other quarterback in the league. Personally, I refuse to believe that a former Pro Bowler and two potential Pro Bowlers (Chambers and McMichael) are running incorrect routes when guys who have never played here (or anywhere) such as Welker and Diamond are doing fine. Sure, they drop passes, but so do other receivers. I simply don't believe - nor does watching the games make me think - that Miami's receivers are making it any harder on Gus than any other teams are on their respective quarterbacks.

Quite simply, what this means is that Gus is not leading us to any victories. If you claim that he has, the average replacement player could have done better. It's hard to believe that any other quarterback would not have scored more points against New Orleans, which is just a bad team. I don't buy into any garbage about "managing the game" or "poise in the pocket" or "knowledge of the system" because when it counts - game time - Gus has failed to put points on the board.
 
read it all and agree 100%, the one thing though is gus does throw away the ball a lot of times because he can "sense" the pass rush but I do agree with your whole thing
 
Regardless of what you think, Gus gives us the best chance not have a QB 'give the game away'. Like AJ last year, he made plays, but he also gave away a few games. Gus may not light it up, but mistakes made are fewest among our roster of QBs as I see it.
 
Flint -

Good write up.....personally, I back Saban and crew...not any QB. I just have to believe they know more about why or why not someone starts and more goes into it then stats. If Saban states in a press conference that receivers have run incorrect routes (he doesnt say who), or that Gus has done a good job avoiding the sack and accepting the incomplete by getting rid of the ball quicker than it takes to let the route develop because of pressure why would you think he is lying?

I think you overvalue our OL by stats alone. Do you know where our Offense is listed in time of possession or sustained drives? These are better keys to a OLines production and consistency.

I dont knock our rushing game or YPC or knock Ronnie's long runs, or even the times Gus has hit a long pass that led to quick scores. I just want to continue to see OLine improvement for consectutive weeks where we control the game clock and sustain drives. I dont get the sense that in time of possession or putting a scoring drive of 8+ plays for over 4 minutes a possession this team and its OLine would have us ranked high on the charts.

To me sustained drives and time of possession is the mark of a good rushing OLine and offensive team as a whole.
 
Great post. This is about as well a thought-out, statisically backed, educated post any of us will read.

Kudos Flint..

EDIT:
Here are some additional facts, and please don't take this as Anit-Gus/Pro-Sage..I really don't care who would be taking the snaps as long as they get it done...

Less than 50% completions in 4 out of 7 games
Until the NO game his ratings after the Denver game were 56.1, 66.6, 66, 68.7, 37.3 (that's not a typo...it was really 37.3)
Has at least 1 INT in 6 of 7 games.

It's safe to say that Saban realizes this, but he also realizes this may be all that he has to work with right now. He may be trying to show the Vets on the team that he wants to win now, and is therefore starting the "proven" guy.
 
Wow...great post. Never realized that about the line. All the time I was blaming them as well...but you are right. Thanks for shedding some light.
 
Great post and I agree that Gus is a below average QB. His inaccuracy is the only thing really holding back the offense. But one thing I do give Gus a lot of credit for is his phenomenal pocket presence. He has the uncanny ability to avoid rushers like the best of em. That's why I think Gus still gives us the best chance to win. Throwing Sage out their would increase sacks and their would be mental mistakes made that Gus just doesn't make. Like you pointed out his problems are physical, not mental.
 
agree 100%

here is what i think... Saban knows that neither Gus, Feeley, or Sage are going to be the answer...
so he got rid of Feeley to prevent any contraverseys....
and he brought in lemon to be next years backup QB and allow some contenuity for when he gets rid of Sage and Gus

expect him to bring in a couple of new QBs next year... lemon will be the guy who knows whats going on and can maybe run the O for a few games if we get our Future QB in the draft
 
flintsilver7 said:
One thing I have noticed this season is that Dolphins fans can be extremely stubborn at times. I had never really noticed there was such a sharp divide here, with some people blindly defending Gus and being absolutely unable to objectively look at the facts.

I'll state mostly facts here with some opinions.

1) Gus Frerotte is a below-average quarterback. In fact, that's generous. According to the numbers - http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PRAT/2005/regular - he's actually the third worst in the league. You'll notice there are currently two guys behind him. One of them, Michael Vick, has only one reliable target in Alge Crumpler. He plays in a heavily run-centric offense and also doubles as a third running back. His weak quarterback play, as it were, is certainly mitigated by other factors. He's not an accurate passer, though he does have a strong arm. (Sound familiar?) The other, Kyle Orton, is a rookie with seven starts under his belt on a very weak offensive team. He has only one reliable target as well - Muhsin Muhammad. It's probably worth noting that Orton has been improving and at his current pace will be ranked higher than Frerotte next week. Of course, that's purely speculation. My point in all of this is that quarterback play is not why we've won the games we've won. It's obvious with the other teams represented there that have winning records - Chicago and Atlanta have strong running games and good defenses. Also worth nothing is that Gus has three solid targets - Chambers, McMichael and Booker - and most of the other guys on that list towards the bottom have no such talent to surround them.

2) Gus is a 12-year veteran with a long and mediocre career. Yes, he made the Pro Bowl in 1996. His numbers were unspectacular - a 79.6 rating, which this year would put him tied for 20th with Brian Griese - but he still made it. Personally, even if he had posted a 120 QB rating, I wouldn't care, because what he did 9 years ago on a completely different team has absolutely no bearing on what is happening now. He has ALWAYS been inaccurate. He has ALWAYS crumbled under pressure. His poor numbers this year, sadly, are not too far off from his career averages. He's always been a backup. As an every-week starter, Frerotte only got worse. His problems are physical, as has been said, and not mental. They're not going to get fixed.

3) Miami's offensive line gets blamed left and right. While last year's line was horrible - clearly, there was no doubt about this - this year's line is significantly improved. By the numbers, Miami actually has one of the league's best lines. Gus has been sacked 12 times this year. Six of them came on either the second-last or the last possession in the four losses. One of them, last week, was widely attributed to Gus holding the ball far too long. Blitzes are far more likely to succeed on obvious passing downs - this we know. Let's talk about numbers. There are two solid metrics to determine the line's efficiency. One is rushing yardage per carry, and the other is sacks allowed per pass attempt. While the abilities of both the quarterback and the running back factor in, those are not easily measured. They affect each other, as it were - Jake Plummer is ten times better in Denver than he was elsewhere. Using a straight average of these two numbers, Miami's line is ranked third in the league. (The top ten, in order: Denver, Indianapolis, Miami, New York Giants, San Diego/Seattle (tied), Cincinnati, Kansas City, Atlanta, and St. Louis. The bottom ten, starting with the worst: New York Jets, Arizona, Dallas, San Francisco, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Baltimore, and Houston.) Some might look out of place. Some look to be right in place. Take these numbers for what you will, but my point is that it's not the line's fault.

Sidebar: Surely somebody will say that Ronnie's long runs skew our rushing average, and without those we're actually at x.xx yards per carry and so on. Well, there are numbers on this as well. Does it happen? Sure. Miami is 6th in the league of runs of 20+, and 7th in the league of runs of 20+ per rushing attempt. (Top 10 in Rushing Plays of 20+ per Attempt: Atlanta, Denver, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, New York Giants, Miami, San Francisco, Chicago, and St. Louis.) You'll notice that even bad teams - with bad offensive lines by the numbers - can occasionally break long runs. This alone doesn't skew anything, though. Tampa and San Francisco still can't pass block (ranked 26th and 30th, respectively) while being average at run blocking (tied for 15th). However, the trend is that the better lines allow for more long runs.

4) Gus has not had to deal with incorrect routes and dropped passes any more than any other quarterback in the league. Personally, I refuse to believe that a former Pro Bowler and two potential Pro Bowlers (Chambers and McMichael) are running incorrect routes when guys who have never played here (or anywhere) such as Welker and Diamond are doing fine. Sure, they drop passes, but so do other receivers. I simply don't believe - nor does watching the games make me think - that Miami's receivers are making it any harder on Gus than any other teams are on their respective quarterbacks.

Quite simply, what this means is that Gus is not leading us to any victories. If you claim that he has, the average replacement player could have done better. It's hard to believe that any other quarterback would not have scored more points against New Orleans, which is just a bad team. I don't buy into any garbage about "managing the game" or "poise in the pocket" or "knowledge of the system" because when it counts - game time - Gus has failed to put points on the board.

Simply not true at all. The past TWO games Gus has been the problem but before that our receiving corps was playing horribly. Further McM and CC have always had issues with dropping passes, that is nothing new for either of them. They will make the impossible catch and then lose concentration and drop far easier passes consistently.
 
one thing also about the sacks allowed is that we are 8th in passing attempts per game... so we pass it a lot and only to have that many sacks is a good thing... especially when you consider how many times we've tried the deep patterns which usually take time to develop... not to mention we've been GREAT against the blitz, compared to last year when we couldn't stop it at all... we've given up only 2 sacks to non-Dlineman... maybe its not such a telling stat, but its gotta show you that on most of the blitzes we are picking them up and not letting any LB or DB run free to the QB...

its been pissing me off how no one is giving our line any credit, they are playing much MUCH MUCH better than last year, and overall pretty good...
 
great post. I think most dolphin fans agree that we are a qb and a few lineman away from being a strong contender....maybe also a few defensive secondary players away from being super bowl contenders.
 
arsenal said:
one thing also about the sacks allowed is that we are 8th in passing attempts per game... so we pass it a lot and only to have that many sacks is a good thing... especially when you consider how many times we've tried the deep patterns which usually take time to develop... not to mention we've been GREAT against the blitz, compared to last year when we couldn't stop it at all... we've given up only 2 sacks to non-Dlineman... maybe its not such a telling stat, but its gotta show you that on most of the blitzes we are picking them up and not letting any LB or DB run free to the QB...

its been pissing me off how no one is giving our line any credit, they are playing much MUCH MUCH better than last year, and overall pretty good...

They are a good pass protecting OL. This OL has made significant progress in such a short period of time. Hudson Houck deserves so much credit for what he's done with that group of guys.
 
ohall said:
Simply not true at all. The past TWO games Gus has been the problem but before that our receiving corps was playing horribly. Further McM and CC have always had issues with dropping passes, that is nothing new for either of them. They will make the impossible catch and then lose concentration and drop far easier passes consistently.

To say simply not true at all might be a bit extreme. He backed it up with some pretty good statistics and research. We're all frustrated with simple drops, but we have seen a lot of the best drop some easy ones as well. Heck T.O. drops as many passes and anyone I've seen.

I would rather see a receiver drop a pass that hits him in the numbers occasionaly than have a QB that rarely gives him a shot to make the catch due to his constant inaccuracy .
 
flintsilver7 said:
3) Miami's offensive line gets blamed left and right. While last year's line was horrible - clearly, there was no doubt about this - this year's line is significantly improved. By the numbers, Miami actually has one of the league's best lines. Gus has been sacked 12 times this year. Six of them came on either the second-last or the last possession in the four losses. One of them, last week, was widely attributed to Gus holding the ball far too long. Blitzes are far more likely to succeed on obvious passing downs - this we know. Let's talk about numbers. There are two solid metrics to determine the line's efficiency. One is rushing yardage per carry, and the other is sacks allowed per pass attempt. While the abilities of both the quarterback and the running back factor in, those are not easily measured. They affect each other, as it were - Jake Plummer is ten times better in Denver than he was elsewhere. Using a straight average of these two numbers, Miami's line is ranked third in the league. (The top ten, in order: Denver, Indianapolis, Miami, New York Giants, San Diego/Seattle (tied), Cincinnati, Kansas City, Atlanta, and St. Louis. The bottom ten, starting with the worst: New York Jets, Arizona, Dallas, San Francisco, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Baltimore, and Houston.) Some might look out of place. Some look to be right in place. Take these numbers for what you will, but my point is that it's not the line's fault.

Great post. I would like to argue about the line however. We are not one of the leagues best. Average per run is only one thing. Mode, or what happens most often is more important for consistence. We are not consistent. We do not consistenly open holes.

We are heavily penalized on the line as well.

Gus should have enought time against NON-top tier defenses however and he is not a GREAT QB.
 
Points 1, 2, and 4 are straight shooting. I would add that Gus has a career tendency to have one good game followed by multiple bad ones. In our case he came out guns a'blazing against the Broncos and hasn't had a good game since. He's probably due for one more good game which will, unfortunately, probably keep him in the starting position for the remainder of the year.

My issue is point #3. This is a classic underestimate of the quarterback's effect on sack stats and offensive line pass protection evaluations. Quarterbacks can have a dramatic, in fact CONTROLLING effect on the sacks allowed by an offensive line. And, this year Gus Frerotte, for all his faults, has been as good at moving within the pocket to buy more time or throwing away footballs to avoid sacks as any QB in the NFL. Classic examples of QBs that weren't going to have high sack numbers no matter who was blocking in front of them are Peyton Manning and Dan Marino. Some QBs have the natural presence of mind to sense the pocket collapsing, and others have the quick release to avoid the sack better than guys with longer releases. Some QBs make up for those natural abilities by just placing EXTRA emphasis on getting rid of the ball as soon as you feel pressured. Gus has a little bit of column A, little bit of column B. In case you haven't figured it out, Gus is very close with Scott Linehan, and Linehan HATES sacks. He hates anything that brings you unnecessarily further away from the line of scrimmage than you were. You could tell how much the penalties were affecting the offense, because Scott refused to start incorporating predictions of penalties into the down and distance equations involved in his offensive game plans.

A great example of an offensive line that was actually a very bad offensive line at pass protection, but looked good because of the QB, was our own OL in 2001. At that time, Fiedler only took 27 sacks despite dropping back 450 times...which equates out to about 17 or 18 dropbacks per sack. Incidentally Gus Frerotte's career average is 17 or 18 dropbacks per sack. If you remember in 2001, we had pressed Spencer Folau into service at left tackle due to an injury to Mark Dixon. Folau was about as bad a left tackle as Wade Smith ever was. And, Todd Wade was nowhere near as good in 2001 as he was in 2000. The middle of our offensive line was not much better. But Fiedler had a pretty remarkable amount of pocket presence, and has had good pocket presence throughout his career.

If you want to TRULY evaluate this offensive line against other offensive line, I would suggest two things. One, is look at the quarterback pressures as well as the ratio of 3, 5, and 7 step drops, as well as play-action passes among NFL teams. The best and only true way to compare OLs is to time out the average amount of time a QB has to throw the ball before a defender is able to reach the quarterback's position...but that can't be done by lay fans.

The way to evaluate an offensive line's run blocking, while controlling more for RB abilities, is to look at short yardage success (OL are people movers, how well do they move people in straight up situations), look at negative runs and figure out which teams have the most negative yardage runs (OL lets DL into the backfield), and some evaluation needs to be done of RB yards after first contact.

I could nearly guarantee that if you did more accurate stat work of the Dolphins OL, you would find that the pass protection is in the bottom third of the league, and the run blocking is right around the middle of the league, maybe a little bit higher than that.
 
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