The Mik's role in the Wide 9 scheme. Step forward Kiko

[Fin Thirteen]

The Mike's role in the Wide 9 scheme. Step forward Kiko

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2012/2/3/2769523/understanding-the-wide-9-mike

Came across this article on the Eagles fansite. It dates from when Washburn was DC. It was just before the draft when we took Tannehill and Philly took Fletcher Cox. The poster was advocating Keuchly because the Wide 9 under Washburn needs an instinctive Mike or it fails.

It's a great read and it tells you why us trading for a guy like Kiko was an essential move for us. Whatever about injury history, Kiko is the playreading Mike this scheme needs.

Ironic that Washburn left and Philly traded for Kiko when Kelly came in.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Kiko does have elite instincts right?

I'm not twisting words am I?

 

[Fin Thirteen]

If you get a chance go and watch his senior Oregon tape or his rookie year with the Bills. Not only is he instinctive, but he's long limbed and strong for his frame. He just reads plays and wraps guys up all day. We haven't had an instinctive LB since Dansby (getting rid of Karlos and Vontae was a complete crime)

 

[NBP81]

Great find! I envoy reading tldr strategy posts. I would add that DTs are also of major importance in that scheme...

 

[Fin Thirteen]

I can see Chris Jones having an important impact in that regard. Savvy player.

 

[maralieus]

Good read. Boy was he right about Kuechly. Kiko was on that track at one point. I have a feeling we're gonna see that kiko this year.

 

[hoops]

Ive got some issues with this...yes alonso is instinctual but hes still more your keep me clean run and chase mike lb who doesnt particularly get off blocks well...i mean no doubt alonso shows the best instincts weve had at the position since karlos dansby but his instincts arent on luke kuechly level...he made a lot of his plays prior to injury on athleticism as much as anything else

The other issue i have here is that for miamis purposes lets say that example with fred davis played out vs us where he went from in line to flexed out and the sam followed with the strong safety walking up in the box...vs miami that becomes single high and press on the outside and no qb or oc worth a damn wont check into a pa deep vertical shot over the top vs our boundary corners and miamis gonna find that out a ton if we get into 3rd or 2nd and very short scenarios for the opposition to exploit

The qb is gonna look off the deep safety and let her rip at the matchup he likes more be it lippett or howard or maxwell and the rbs will stay in to protect off the pa or they will send one out to the flat while they work the flex tight end into the middle of the field to try and occupy the deep safety long enough for him to take a false step or two

 

[malzacher]

Good article. Explains a lot. This is the type of stuff these beat writers need to learn. At least know the game before spewing off non-sense...this is for you Omar! Alonso is no kuechly but he's pretty damn close when healthy. Think Vance Joseph is going to be one happy camper come draft time next year. He'll have a lot of new draft picks to groom. (Random thought)

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Ive got some issues with this...yes alonso is instinctual but hes still more your keep me clean run and chase mike lb who doesnt particularly get off blocks well...i mean no doubt alonso shows the best instincts weve had at the position since karlos dansby but his instincts arent on luke kuechly level...he made a lot of his plays prior to injury on athleticism as much as anything else

The other issue i have here is that for miamis purposes lets say that example with fred davis played out vs us where he went from in line to flexed out and the sam followed with the strong safety walking up in the box...vs miami that becomes single high and press on the outside and no qb or oc worth a damn wont check into a pa deep vertical shot over the top vs our boundary corners and miamis gonna find that out a ton if we get into 3rd or 2nd and very short scenarios for the opposition to exploit

The qb is gonna look off the deep safety and let her rip at the matchup he likes more be it lippett or howard or maxwell and the rbs will stay in to protect off the pa or they will send one out to the flat while they work the flex tight end into the middle of the field to try and occupy the deep safety long enough for him to take a false step or two

While I agree with your general sentiment, Maxwell excelled in a press cover-3, with some cover-1, in Seattle. Chancellor in the box more often than not, Maxwell can hang on deep patterns. It's the across the field and quick breaking routes in true man that gave him issues. The other CB is a concern. Lippett better get a good jam running 4.6.

 

[hoops]

Your gonna see that teams are not gonna be afraid to test maxwell deep if they get single high looks after they run a few A or b gap dives etc on short yardage to see how the corners look carrying coverage on the outside for the oc and qb to look at on the sideline or off miami film study during gameplan weekly prep

And if miami shades the deep safety to lippett or howard or whoevers side its gonna be attack byron maxwell without hesitation

Its not gonna take long on tape for miami to be bombs away vs the boundary if teams get favorable downs and distances

 

[GasPed]

While I agree with your general sentiment, Maxwell excelled in a press cover-3, with some cover-1, in Seattle. Chancellor in the box more often than not, Maxwell can hang on deep patterns. It's the across the field and quick breaking routes in true man that gave him issues. The other CB is a concern. Lippett better get a good jam running 4.6.

As someone who watched the Seahawks a lot, I can tell you that Maxwell was not often asked to carry man-to-man deep - he usually had help from Thomas or Chancellor as he pressed and funnelled the routes inside. In that regard he was nothing like Richard Sherman who was often asked to press and stay in the hip pocket of the #1 receiver by himself. On the occasions Maxwell was asked to carry his man downfield it seemed his primary technique was the good old fake press and bail. I dunno, but to my eyes, he benefited a lot from Sherman being on the other side. I worry that in our D he may be asked to be the shutdown guy, and he's not that kind of guy. At least not from what I've seen.

 

[BigNastyFish]

... miamis gonna find that out a ton if we get into 3rd or 2nd and very short scenarios for the opposition to exploit

Seriously???

Maybe I just don't get the "insight" on your part -- but if ANY D is faced with that situation the advantage shifts to the O so WTF does it matter???

You think we can find a MLB who can stop all situations regardless of down and distance?

He's 1 of 11 on D and he needs to do his job -- not be superman.

Just my Oh Pinion.

BNF.

 

[hoops]

As someone who watched the Seahawks a lot, I can tell you that Maxwell was not often asked to carry man-to-man deep - he usually had help from Thomas or Chancellor as he pressed and funnelled the routes inside. In that regard he was nothing like Richard Sherman who was often asked to press and stay in the hip pocket of the #1 receiver by himself. On the occasions Maxwell was asked to carry his man downfield it seemed his primary technique was the good old fake press and bail. I dunno, but to my eyes, he benefited a lot from Sherman being on the other side. I worry that in our D he may be asked to be the shutdown guy, and he's not that kind of guy. At least not from what I've seen.

Bingo

 

[Fin Thirteen]

Ive got some issues with this...yes alonso is instinctual but hes still more your keep me clean run and chase mike lb who doesnt particularly get off blocks well...i mean no doubt alonso shows the best instincts weve had at the position since karlos dansby but his instincts arent on luke kuechly level...he made a lot of his plays prior to injury on athleticism as much as anything else

The other issue i have here is that for miamis purposes lets say that example with fred davis played out vs us where he went from in line to flexed out and the sam followed with the strong safety walking up in the box...vs miami that becomes single high and press on the outside and no qb or oc worth a damn wont check into a pa deep vertical shot over the top vs our boundary corners and miamis gonna find that out a ton if we get into 3rd or 2nd and very short scenarios for the opposition to exploit

The qb is gonna look off the deep safety and let her rip at the matchup he likes more be it lippett or howard or maxwell and the rbs will stay in to protect off the pa or they will send one out to the flat while they work the flex tight end into the middle of the field to try and occupy the deep safety long enough for him to take a false step or two

On your first issue, Hoops, I flat out disagree. In fact, I'd say Alonso's biggest positive is his decisiveness. His read-react speed is right up there with the best. True, he's not a Dansby type physique that can stack and shed with ease, but his ability to slip blocks with speed and body position is huge. I don't see his physique limiting which gaps he can fill, which is the point of the thread. I do agree he doesn't have Keuchly level ability, but who does?

On your second issue, I agree we have issues in the scenario above where the QB sees the SS come down and feasts on our wobbly secondary. But that wasn't really the point of the article, to ID what the play should have been. The author was trying to show how the wide 9 leaves gap responsibility for the Mike and in many cases it could be two gaps the Mike has to cover or the RB is galloping through empty turf.

 

[hoops]

On your first issue, Hoops, I flat out disagree. In fact, I'd say Alonso's biggest positive is his decisiveness. His read-react speed is right up there with the best. True, he's not a Dansby type physique that can stack and shed with ease, but his ability to slip blocks with speed and body position is huge. I don't see his physique limiting which gaps he can fill, which is the point of the thread. I do agree he doesn't have Keuchly level ability, but who does?

On your second issue, I agree we have issues in the scenario above where the QB sees the SS come down and feasts on our wobbly secondary. But that wasn't really the point of the article, to ID what the play should have been. The author was trying to show how the wide 9 leaves gap responsibility for the Mike and in many cases it could be two gaps the Mike has to cover or the RB is galloping through empty turf.

he's giving you one very basic example out of the same formation