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The Myth Flo Vs Tua Bs

Rev Kev

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Your first line doesn't add up, especially considering how Ross has replied about that other qb in hoUSton. If Tua was Ross' guy, as you said, why would he be clamoring for another one behind the scenes already, especially when "his choice" just wins? 7-3
Makes zero sense, Reverend.

Many blessings to you brother....
Ross said what about DW?

What sound bite do you have???

This man holds beyond 360 billion in wealth and assets I think he knows how to dodge the media if need be

He is only said to have wanted Lamar and that has more legs than anything DW related
 

Geordie

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My beliefs no evidence

-Ross chose Tua

-Grier and Flo would have taken a healthy Herbert with potential upside

-Fitz was the stop gap he and Chan had the full assurance of the GM and coach that Fitz would be the guy - something they both failed to deliver and why the O was solely built for Ryan

- their collective support ended when it was annunced that Fitz was benched - this was RoSs telling Grier what was gonna happen

- maybe you remember too that Somewhere in 2020 during the 3-3 record a reporter asked Flo about Tua Starting and Flo basically laughed it off he said and I paparaphrase Flo‘s words “if you were the father would you want Tua starting right now after what his body endured”

- it was only weeks later that healthy Fitz was on the bench and Tua was starting

- my belief here is that Ross wanted Tua starting and told Grier to tell his hire Flo to start Tua

- Tua didn’t catch lightning in a bottle but the team won and Ross looked smart for awhile anyways

- I think - my belief - is that Flo didn’t want Tua starting he thought he had a better chance of the POs with Fitz but Grier wouldn’t back him with the owner

- Grier is the quintessential company Man 20+ years he would twist Flos arm for Ross any day of the week

- Tua and the game ball Flo was congenial but didn’t take it from Tua the puppy dog after the Zona win


- Flo had no problem pulling

View attachment 86872

- Tua was also the man in the middle like Grier and was trying to win his coach

- fast forward Flo had no issue pulling Tua because he wanted the POs

- my belief the relationship between Flo and Grier is on shaky ground because Grier did not stick up for Flo about Fitz

- the drafts they both have to own outside of Tua

- my belief our team would Look a lot better with two starting tackles and a C and a 230 pound RB up the middle like we thought they would aspire to check off in the 2020 draft and FA vs 2020 FA spending and early picks on Defense

- my belief the hoot and holler about Watson is not about the owner and I doubt the 360th wealthiest man (give or take) got that way being expediently clueless no one with such business sense would sign off on such a stupid design to save their sinking ship before the 20 cases were dealt with

- I believe Grier did check into what it would cost to get Watson and was outed by DW agent (and he can’t deny it) as he never really wanted Tua - why not ask their collective lacklustre desire to ensure/build an Oline and quality 230 lb RB to soften the pass rush is their collective attempt to try to be smarter than the Owner

-it is my belief they want to win and keep their jobs in spite of the owners interference and win their way in essence distancing themselves from the Owners insisytemce on Tua

- it is my belief and I think it is close to what is happening behind the doors

- I believe Tua is here long after Flores becomes the DE coach of the Houston Texans

- Grier wil not work in a head office again his 20 years was just not aces

I like the thought you've put into this man. I'm not sure I'm fully on board with the base premise of Tua being Ross's guy and the other two being all for Herbert.

The reason I say this is because there seems to me a lot of revisionist theory going on here. If you cast your mind back to that draft, Burrow was the #1, because of the season he had with LSU but there was still some talk that Cincy were deliberating between him and Tua. Tua was the clear #2 though, especially after the video of him working out showed that he was make great strides in his recovery. Herbert was a distant #3, with some people having Jordan Love higher than him ! I remember back then that I was one of Herbert's biggest advocates, it was a lonely stance to take. People on here were incredulous at Tanenbaum when he was asked who was the best QB prospect in the draft Burrow or Tua and he said Herbert.

Now everyone is "oh how did we pass on him, he was clearly the best prospect, look at his arm" , yeah those people simply didn't say that at the time of the draft and I don't blame them for that because there were a LOT of question marks on Justin Herbert coming out, yes he had the big arm, but there wasn't much evidence of him being able to throw with touch. He was consistent in his inconsistency in college and he was prone to brain farts on a regular basis. He was always prototypical and I can't remember an arm as good as he showed on occasion at Oregon, but he was far from a slam dunk pick folks seem to want to make him out to be now.

If there was some disagreement, I think it was that Flo didn't want to take any QB that high, but he was of course still fairly new in the job and after posting 5 wins in year one, no matter how they were achieved in no position to over rule his GM and owner.

Think there is some truth in Tua not being Flo's guy, the benchings exposed that. I also think Flo's general disinterest in the offense is a factor here, he just expects them to go out and perform and if they are not he's coming down strong on them, hence the constant changes in the O coaching staff.
 
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fansinceGWilson

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- If the case I am right and it is all a hunch

- Ross wouldn’t appreciate how they are treating his prize - Tua is working out besides the tomfoolery Patch work this and that

- lack of offensive coheSian aside coaching and coordinating is not on Ross

- DW murmur could be huge in the actual downfall - not on Ross but his name is involved sure he likes that

- the final nail is record of course


And once it gets out that Ross forces players on GMs and HCs and then fires them for it (and it will), how many top candidates will jump at the chance to be his next scape goat for his next wrong pick?
I'm not saying grier/Flo deserve to stay or be fired. Grier/Flo can point to their record for the previous two years and say they proved they can win and would have won in '21 if Ross hadn't forced a a small injury-prone QB on them AND they can say they wanted Herbert who teams know was the 'right' choice and would have won even more. A lot of grey in the debate.
They can make the same argument to Ross and, I think, given all the factors involved will keep both. I make no guarantees, but I think their return is the most likely to happen.
 

Eesti

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Herbert is the much better QB today. He was a better QB last year. The fact is NO ONE has any idea what Tua will become. The best ability is availability but NO ONE, as of today, knows if that will be a continual problem for his career. We can speculate all we like.

A lot of it will depend on the progression of the OL as well as the rest of the team. We stink all around right now. Expecting Tua to save the day (season) is asking too much.

At least Flores stopped being so stubborn with Austin Jackson at LT.

You don't make a final decision on a top 10 pick after 10 starts unless you're the Arizona Cardinals...but they at least gave Rosen 14 games. Tua has not looked anywhere near that bad.
 

Dollhouse

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Wow such cheap conjecture. Anybody with a laptop and too much time can make this stuff up. Slow news day huh? Let's face facts, this team is putrid and unless they go on a five or six game winning run the season is already over.
 

utahphinsfan

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Everytime this topic comes up most people with sources on the team refutably deny Grier and Flores were not onboard with Tua.
One way to really piss off your boss would be to blame drafting Tua over Herbert on him, especially when your boss allegedly wanted Lamar Jackson a few years ago and said you (Grier) defiantly told him no.

I can't imagine Lamar in a Gase offense.

I really can't picture Gaze adapting his (I mean Peyton's) scheme to play to Lamar's strengths.
 

utahphinsfan

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I like the thought you've put into this man. I'm not sure I'm fully on board with the base premise of Tua being Ross's guy and the other two being all for Herbert.

The reason I say this is because there seems to me a lot of revisionist theory going on here. If you cast your mind back to that draft, Burrow was the #1, because of the season he had with LSU but there was still some talk that Cincy were deliberating between him and Tua. Tua was the clear #2 though, especially after the video of him working out showed that he was make great strides in his recovery. Herbert was a distant #3, with some people having Jordan Love higher than him ! I remember back then that I was one of Herbert's biggest advocates, it was a lonely stance to take. People on here were incredulous at Tanenbaum when he was asked who was the best QB prospect in the draft Burrow or Tua and he said Herbert.

Now everyone is "oh how did we pass on him, he was clearly the best prospect, look at his arm" , yeah those people simply didn't say that at the time of the draft and I don't blame them for that because there were a LOT of question marks on Justin Herbert coming out, yes he had the big arm, but there wasn't much evidence of him being able to throw with touch. He was consistent in his inconsistency in college and he was prone to brain farts on a regular basis. He was always prototypical and I can't remember an arm as good as he showed on occasion at Oregon, but he was far from a slam dunk pick folks seem to want to make him out to be now.

If there was some disagreement, I think it was that Flo didn't want to take any QB that high, but he was of course still fairly new in the job and after posting 5 wins in year one, no matter how they were achieved in no position to over rule his GM and owner.

Think there is some truth in Tua not being Flo's guy, the benchings exposed that. I also think his general disinterest in the offensive is a factor here, he just expects them to go out and perform and if they are not he's coming down strong on them, hence the constant changes in the O coaching staff.

This.
 

DANTODUPER

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Flores and Grier fired by Ross would have nothing to do with Tua. Grier has lots of big big misses so far. Rebuilding the OL, Noah, Jackson lots of FAs not even been able to unseat rookies. Extending Parker and Baker. We have no Home Run hits after 3 years of top picks. You would expect at least two of them playing top 5 at their positions. We have none.
Flores on the other side is failing in assembling a good coaching staff. And our defense has regresed a lot. With Flores we have not being able to stop the run, run or have an average OL. Same problem as the other Head Coaches before him. I think he is in a hard situación because he put incompetent people at key coaching positions. One of the best attributes a HC can have is indentifying who can develop players and who can do a good job on gameplan. Winning against bad teams is not why Ross hired him.
 

fansinceGWilson

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Flores and Grier fired by Ross would have nothing to do with Tua. Grier has lots of big big misses so far. Rebuilding the OL, Noah, Jackson lots of FAs not even been able to unseat rookies. Extending Parker and Baker. We have no Home Run hits after 3 years of top picks. You would expect at least two of them playing top 5 at their positions. We have none.
Flores on the other side is failing in assembling a good coaching staff. And our defense has regresed a lot. With Flores we have not being able to stop the run, run or have an average OL. Same problem as the other Head Coaches before him. I think he is in a hard situación because he put incompetent people at key coaching positions. One of the best attributes a HC can have is indentifying who can develop players and who can do a good job on gameplan. Winning against bad teams is not why Ross hired him.

A personal story. I had a supervisor tell me when I took a job . . . I won't hold you responsible for every mistake your subordinates make, but I do hold you responsible to FIX IT.
Flores has the job. There are problems. FIX IT
 

Rev Kev

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I like the thought you've put into this man. I'm not sure I'm fully on board with the base premise of Tua being Ross's guy and the other two being all for Herbert.

The reason I say this is because there seems to me a lot of revisionist theory going on here. If you cast your mind back to that draft, Burrow was the #1, because of the season he had with LSU but there was still some talk that Cincy were deliberating between him and Tua. Tua was the clear #2 though, especially after the video of him working out showed that he was make great strides in his recovery. Herbert was a distant #3, with some people having Jordan Love higher than him ! I remember back then that I was one of Herbert's biggest advocates, it was a lonely stance to take. People on here were incredulous at Tanenbaum when he was asked who was the best QB prospect in the draft Burrow or Tua and he said Herbert.

Now everyone is "oh how did we pass on him, he was clearly the best prospect, look at his arm" , yeah those people simply didn't say that at the time of the draft and I don't blame them for that because there were a LOT of question marks on Justin Herbert coming out, yes he had the big arm, but there wasn't much evidence of him being able to throw with touch. He was consistent in his inconsistency in college and he was prone to brain farts on a regular basis. He was always prototypical and I can't remember an arm as good as he showed on occasion at Oregon, but he was far from a slam dunk pick folks seem to want to make him out to be now.

If there was some disagreement, I think it was that Flo didn't want to take any QB that high, but he was of course still fairly new in the job and after posting 5 wins in year one, no matter how they were achieved in no position to over rule his GM and owner.

Think there is some truth in Tua not being Flo's guy, the benchings exposed that. I also think his general disinterest in the offensive is a factor here, he just expects them to go out and perform and if they are not he's coming down strong on them, hence the constant changes in the O coaching staff.
Yes I like this rebuff agree it has legs

I think people just may forget that the owner signs the checks and they often get what they want particularly when the the GM wasnt a slam dunk to begin with (Grier has little power behind that resume) and it isn’t always right the owner meddles but they put up the money and in this case I think he meddled

I like Tua and am still liking the pick not sure he will see a life not on the run in Miami

Herbert / Burrow would be on the ground a lot in Miami too I don’t think it would be much different
 

Rev Kev

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And once it gets out that Ross forces players on GMs and HCs and then fires them for it (and it will), how many top candidates will jump at the chance to be his next scape goat for his next wrong pick?
I'm not saying grier/Flo deserve to stay or be fired. Grier/Flo can point to their record for the previous two years and say they proved they can win and would have won in '21 if Ross hadn't forced a a small injury-prone QB on them AND they can say they wanted Herbert who teams know was the 'right' choice and would have won even more. A lot of grey in the debate.
They can make the same argument to Ross and, I think, given all the factors involved will keep both. I make no guarantees, but I think their return is the most likely to happen.
One time since 2008 are you serious?

This is not a democracy one person pays the bills - according to what I read Grier had to bring a file of papers to prove/make a case he didn’t make certain selections of his former GM bosses

I can start naming people who would jump at this job given a chance you may not like them but lots of people want to show their stuff and can work with a very hands off owner

GLO is done unless they get back into the PO race by game 17 -
 

Eesti

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A personal story. I had a supervisor tell me when I took a job . . . I won't hold you responsible for every mistake your subordinates make, but I do hold you responsible to FIX IT.
Flores has the job. There are problems. FIX IT
Sounds good in theory but what if you need to replace them with better employees and HR can't seem to find any?
 

royalshank

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*IF* you are right and Ross forced TT on Grier/Flo, that makes their return almost guaranteed. It would be hard to fire two guys you forced to take a QB who failed, PARTICULARLY when the QB they wanted is playing well
Hey well the Pats fired the two guys deflating footballs at Brady’s directive so you never know!!!
 

fansinceGWilson

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One time since 2008 are you serious?

This is not a democracy one person pays the bills - according to what I read Grier had to bring a file of papers to prove/make a case he didn’t make certain selections of his former GM bosses

I can start naming people who would jump at this job given a chance you may not like them but lots of people want to show their stuff and can work with a very hands off owner

GLO is done unless they get back into the PO race by game 17 -

We disagree
 
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