the offense must recast their identity starting this week

[BGtoKNfor6]

against a very bad seattle team. Let's face it, our run game was nothing short of lackluster against a very bad denver run defense. What did they do to stop us? It appeared to me they were stacking the box using a cover 2 while brining the safety down leaving single coverage on the outside wideouts and one safety over the top.

Now for the teams on the next level, they would have eaten that kind of defense apart, especially with denvers top corner on the sidelines. We, however did not and was barely able to must 60 yards from our top back.

This is why it is imperative that this week, if we are going to start brining the team together, that we recast our identity on offense this week. Our schedule is obviously favorable. Since this is a copy cat league though, you can bet your *** that other teams will stack 8 in the box and disrespect our passing game until we PROVE we can do something about it. That leaves ronnie/ricky to have lackluster performances unless we start to exploit matchups with ginn and fasano and whomeever else wants to step up.

Another important facet is continuity on the o-line. Where is our nastiness? I am not in favor or rotating guys on the line and we did that last week. We need to gel down the mid stretch here in hopes that we have what it takes to get to the next level and into the playoffs. Nothing would be sweeter to see ronnie getting 110-120 yards a game because the o-line simply put all the pieces together. This could be a reality given our schedule, but call it "practice" for the big dance if we actually get into the first round of the playoffs.

I am in favor of scraping the gimicky wildcat, which we have been doing in the last few games. I think it has worn out it's welcome as we had a few 3& short that we used it on and failed. Defenese have known to go into blitz mode when ronnie is back there and it is working. Let's just get back to basics against teams that we have a good chance at beating. For our offense long drives and ball control is where we are at. We just don't have the ability right now, to score at will. 12-15 play drives is our bread and butter, while wearing the opposing defense down.

Hopefully we can build on our last two weeks but there is still a HUGE room for improvement on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[Sexytime48]

I agree 100%. This is setting up to be our "breakout" offensive game.

Improvements in the passing game should translate into some big yards this week if Seattle tries to stack 8 in the box. I'm so so so impressed with how our wide outs have been performing the past couple of weeks with Ginn and Camarillo having monster games respectively. Lets hope that we can get both of them involved early and often to loosen up the D and then pound the rock down the stretch with Ronnie/Ricky. If everything clicks, we should be running the ball the entire second half if our passing game can put up some points early. I'm not advocating that we sling it 90% in the first half by any means, but Penny has proven that he can make 99% of the throws asked of him and we need to seriously exploit one of the worse pass defenses in the league. I'd love to see a bomb to Camarillo or Ginn on the first play just like the Buffalo game. I felt that it sent a clear message and it really gets guys amped up for the rest of the game.

 

[dolphinator86]

Yeah you made some good points. And Coach Sparano has said that our O-line has to get back to getting off the line and holding their respective blocks. And Denver run blitzed like crazy and that hampered the running attack as well.

The main reason i see no one respecting our passing is because everyone knows at the end of the day we want to run even if we had stud 1st team all pro wide-outs we would want to run we are built to run. But 8 in the box run blitzes and a young offensive line has slowed the running attack.

But let them put 8 in the box Camarillo and Ginn seem willing to take the burden off the run game and if London develops into any kind of a wide-out WE WILL have quick strike ability.

So should we be worried, eariler in the season i would say yes but with Cam/Ginn emerging as a pretty good duo Bess/Fasano running the middle of the field and Penny putting it on the money i would say not as worried as most.

Do we need to improve YES YES YES but we have to just keep working hard and continue to improve each DAY. This team has beaten the Chargers, Pats, Broncos, Bills and we are not even close to our ceiling. Once the whole UNIT run blocking clicks for this O-line i think that we will be DEADLY to all who face us.

 

[BGtoKNfor6]

Yeah you made some good points. And Coach Sparano has said that our O-line has to get back to getting off the line and holding their respective blocks. And Denver run blitzed like crazy and that hampered the running attack as well.

The main reason i see no one respecting our passing is because everyone knows at the end of the day we want to run even if we had stud 1st team all pro wide-outs we would want to run we are built to run. But 8 in the box run blitzes and a young offensive line has slowed the running attack.

But let them put 8 in the box Camarillo and Ginn seem willing to take the burden off the run game and if London develops into any kind of a wide-out WE WILL have quick strike ability.

So should we be worried, eariler in the season i would say yes but with Cam/Ginn emerging as a pretty good duo Bess/Fasano running the middle of the field and Penny putting it on the money i would say not as worried as most.

Do we need to improve YES YES YES but we have to just keep working hard and continue to improve each DAY. This team has beaten the Chargers, Pats, Broncos, Bills and we are not even close to our ceiling. Once the whole UNIT run blocking clicks for this O-line i think that we will be DEADLY to all who face us.

What I would LOVE to see is pennington picking up the defensive calls and if a team is going to stack 8, then let's get ginn in a hot route or greg. You have single coverage with a safety 10 yards back for gods sake! I have no clue if it is just growing pains and we don't have the players yet that can make those kinds of "on the fly" decisions or what.

It was very frustrating to see us not adjust to the base defense that denver had all game, in terms of the running game. I think chad saw this and had a field day with greg on the short routes but our offense has to start to exploit the defensive scheme (ala zone coverages with fasano down the seam, 8 in the box with ginn deep down the sideline in single coverage, so on and so forth).

The division title and playoffs will depend on whether we can do this or not. This is where I miss guys like zach thomas who were TRUE students of the game. I know it is probably alot asking guys like satele (he should be making these calls anyway on the line) to be able to recognize this stuff. However it is critical if our team is going to mature.

 

[Clipse]

Teams should know by now they can't stack 8 in the box against Penny. But if they want to keep stacking, we'll keep passing, which is working pretty well for us. And then as soon as they learn they can't stack the box. BOOM! They get hit with a dose of R&R. Gotta love the way this offense is heading.

 

[dolphinator86]

Teams should know by now they can't stack 8 in the box against Penny. But if they want to keep stacking, we'll keep passing, which is working pretty well for us. And then as soon as they learn they can't stack the box. BOOM! They get hit with a dose of R&R. Gotta love the way this offense is heading.

EXACTLY SOMEONE GETS IT!!! you work with what the defense gives you last year we would run 3 times and go 3 and out we beat our heads against the wall. We are molding the offense to what we are seeing on defense.

And like you said when they FINALLY see Ginn/Camarillo will beat you they will be forced to back it up and the Ronnie and Ricky will go huge then they will stack then you pass they back up again you RUN.

I love the R&R express but they along with the team LOVE WINNING and will do whatever they have to do in order to win!!

 

[BGtoKNfor6]

Teams should know by now they can't stack 8 in the box against Penny. But if they want to keep stacking, we'll keep passing, which is working pretty well for us. And then as soon as they learn they can't stack the box. BOOM! They get hit with a dose of R&R. Gotta love the way this offense is heading.

While I love the enthusiasm, our passing game was pretty lackluster too and nothing to write home about. Had champ played, the outcome could have been very different. The only bright spot in the passing game was 11 completions to camarillo. I wouldn't be too happy about that. Teams with better defenses will continue to stack 8 because again they don't respect our passing game. The dink and dunk will continue to work but if you cannot run the ball in the nfl, your going to lose. This may work against the oaklands and rams of the nfl but if we get into the first round of the playoffs we will lose. Mark my words.

We need continuity on the line as well as someone other than camarillo stepping up. We need ginn to start stretching the field so they cannot stack 8 in the box against us. We still have a long way to go but a very favorable schedule to do it. These teams will allow us headroom to make mistakes and still have a very good shot at winning the ballgame. The titans, steelers, etc won't give us that and if we don't get more balance are going to show us the exit VERY quickly IF we even get a shot to play them.

 

[Clipse]

While I love the enthusiasm, our passing game was pretty lackluster too and nothing to write home about. Had champ played, the outcome could have been very different. The only bright spot in the passing game was 11 completions to camarillo. I wouldn't be too happy about that. Teams with better defenses will continue to stack 8 because again they don't respect our passing game. The dink and dunk will continue to work but if you cannot run the ball in the nfl, your going to lose. This may work against the oaklands and rams of the nfl but if we get into the first round of the playoffs we will lose. Mark my words.

We need continuity on the line as well as someone other than camarillo stepping up. We need ginn to start stretching the field so they cannot stack 8 in the box against us. We still have a long way to go but a very favorable schedule to do it. These teams will allow us headroom to make mistakes and still have a very good shot at winning the ballgame. The titans, steelers, etc won't give us that but are going to show us the exit VERY quickly IF we even get a shot to play them.

Why not be happy about it? Camarillo is too underrated. This kid has loads of talent. Like I said, they can continue to stack the box, they will learn that isn't a very good idea though. Then when they start to pull out that 8th man, Ronnie and Ricky will get their yards.

 

[BGtoKNfor6]

Why not be happy about it? Camarillo is too underrated. This kid has loads of talent. Like I said, they can continue to stack the box, they will learn that isn't a very good idea though. Then when they start to pull out that 8th man, Ronnie and Ricky will get their yards.

I guess I just don't understand what your trying to get at. It isn't like we have peyton manning and reggie wayne, dallas clark and harrison to throw too. I understand that the emergence of camarillo is nice but we have nobody else that want's to step up like that. Ginn had one good game but couldn't shake dre bly for gods sake. Simply stated we had nobody to make them pay for stacking 8 in the box. If you call 8-10 out or curl routes "paying" for stacking 8 in the box....

Not only that but denver stacked the box all game long and we really didn't do anything to make them release from that defensive scheme. That is what I am getting at. Also denver was what the 29th or 30th ranked defense. I am sure you can get where this is going. You can only be one dimensional for so long. Right now we are a one dimensional offense with our run game. We are 1&30 something in 3rd down conversions greater than 7 yards. That is horrendous. Seems to me the stacking of the box is working.

Again this won't fly against teams that actually play defense. That is all I am saying and the scope of what I am trying to convey in this thread. Don't be alarmed when seattle stacks 8 in the box and if we don't at least attempt to get ginn the ball down the field, we are going to see another game like denver IMO.

 

[Clipse]

I guess I just don't understand what your trying to get at. It isn't like we have peyton manning and reggie wayne, dallas clark and harrison to throw too. I understand that the emergence of camarillo is nice but we have nobody else that want's to step up like that. Ginn had one good game but couldn't shake dre bly for gods sake. Simply stated we had nobody to make them pay for stacking 8 in the box. If you call 8-10 out or curl routes "paying" for stacking 8 in the box....

Not only that but denver stacked the box all game long and we really didn't do anything to make them release from that defensive scheme. That is what I am getting at. Also denver was what the 29th or 30th ranked defense. I am sure you can get where this is going. You can only be one dimensional for so long. Right now we are a one dimensional offense with our run game. We are 1&30 something in 3rd down conversions greater than 7 yards. That is horrendous. Seems to me the stacking of the box is working.

Again this won't fly against teams that actually play defense. That is all I am saying and the scope of what I am trying to convey in this thread. Don't be alarmed when seattle stacks 8 in the box and if we don't at least attempt to get ginn the ball down the field, we are going to see another game like denver IMO.

We're actually a top 10 passing team. I would assume that makes us far from a 1 dimensional run team. And us not getting the ball to Ginn downfield isn't because we're 1 dimensional, it's because Henning has demonstrated conservative playcalling which doesn't really consist of many downfield throws. This offense is suited perfectly for Penny, lots of underneath routes and passes to the RB, I really wish we would do more screens to Brown/Ricky, we do a very good job at them. Very seldom do we take shots downfield, and rightfully so. Our offense is all about moving chains 10 yards at a time and burning clock.

With that being said, I do agree we need a playmaker WR, however that won't be happening anytime this year. I do feel really good about Brandon London and Armstrong from our Practice Squad has impressed me as well. Bess and Camarillo have very good hands, and Ginn is always a threat due to his speed. Not to mention Fasano and Martin have impressed. But a Playmaker WR wouldn't hurt, not at all.

 

[Fish-Head]

I am in favor of scraping the gimicky wildcat, which we have been doing in the last few games. I think it has worn out it's welcome as we had a few 3& short that we used it on and failed. Defenese have known to go into blitz mode when ronnie is back there and it is working. Let's just get back to basics against teams that we have a good chance at beating. For our offense long drives and ball control is where we are at. We just don't have the ability right now, to score at will. 12-15 play drives is our bread and butter, while wearing the opposing defense down.

Hopefully we can build on our last two weeks but there is still a HUGE room for improvement on the offensive side of the ball.

Some good points made... I would disagree with the scrapping of the Wildcat... I think we just need to use it differently, in fact I think it has become predictable with Ronnie taking so many shots at off tackle...

It is a very creative formation and when we began it we introduced a new wrinkle each week... Now it has become much easier to defend as we use it in predictable situations with predictable sets.

I really think Ricky is underused in it... Having him at full speed when he receives the football should be A HUGE advantage as there are no LB's in the league who can run with him... Also the fact that he passes in front of Ronnie makes for a beautiful fake... Ricky needs to sell that a little better.

Next if we lined up a better blocker wide to that side.. Say Cobbs or even Polite he can atttack the pursuit and seal them inside leaving Ricky to deal with a safety or even a corner and I would take that match up all day... I think the formation is FULL of possibilities but we have become a little complacent in its execution and used it at very predictable times in the game.

 

[BGtoKNfor6]

We're actually a top 10 passing team. I would assume that makes us far from a 1 dimensional run team. And us not getting the ball to Ginn downfield isn't because we're 1 dimensional, it's because Henning has demonstrated conservative playcalling.

The past 4 weeks probably had something do with those stats when we couldn't run to save our lives. Stats don't always tell the truth. Top 10 passing team but can barely score against a team that is almost dead last in the nfl in defense. Our lone td was a run too setup by a pass to williams.

I am glad we are winning but I am not going to use stats to help myself sleep at night over the status of our offense.

Again, mark my words and I will eat crow all day long. If miami doesn't find a way to convert on 3rd and 7 or more and doesn't have another viable receiver who is going to stretch the field., we aren't going to go very far. Teams will continue to stack 8 and the good ones will shut us down on the outside with single coverage because they have the guys to do so.

Ever care to wager that our conservative play calling is due to lack of ginn emerging? I will say it again and stand by it. Right now, the pass opens the run for us by relaxing opposing defenses and keeping them honest. Not the other way around. It was evident that denver didn't even flinch on our meager attempts at play action. In the games against NE and SD, they didn't stack the box because they didn't really fear us. Ronnie ran all over them and we had the wildcat which helped. Again teams don't fear our pass but we are doing nothing to force them to be honest.

All we need to do is have someone emerge opposite camarillo. Greg is very good third wideout who is playing as our number one right now. Any team with a good corner will shut him down. Then what are we going to do? Team stacks 8, shuts down camarillo.....

That is all I am saying. It will come together, we just need this week to move forward and start to bring it together.

 

[BGtoKNfor6]

We're actually a top 10 passing team. I would assume that makes us far from a 1 dimensional run team. And us not getting the ball to Ginn downfield isn't because we're 1 dimensional, it's because Henning has demonstrated conservative playcalling which doesn't really consist of many downfield throws. This offense is suited perfectly for Penny, lots of underneath routes and passes to the RB, I really wish we would do more screens to Brown/Ricky, we do a very good job at them. Very seldom do we take shots downfield, and rightfully so. Our offense is all about moving chains 10 yards at a time and burning clock.

With that being said, I do agree we need a playmaker WR, however that won't be happening anytime this year. I do feel really good about Brandon London and Armstrong from our Practice Squad has impressed me as well. Bess and Camarillo have very good hands, and Ginn is always a threat due to his speed. Not to mention Fasano and Martin have impressed. But a Playmaker WR wouldn't hurt, not at all.

That is a much better explanation and I whole-heartedly agree. My problem is with the offensive line on screens. While they are getting better, I have seen plays this year and there was one against denver where ronnie just simply outran his blockers because they really weren't doing anything and he was tackled 10 yards later.

What I see are our guys getting out in space and not removing their blockers from the play. Maybe it is bad angles. I have no clue but sometimes I question ronnies field vision. He tends to make the first guy miss and then doesn't seem to get into position or use his blockers well at times. I know I am not down on the field but that is how I see it sometimes. I see ronnie in the mold of westbrook but westbrook is much more polished in terms of field vision.

I do believe that fasano can become more of a center piece of the offense. That would help greg out tremendously. Fasano has impressed me and martin for that matter with their ability to hold onto the football.

I also believe we need to get ricky more involved somehow but I do think he has lost a step. He just seems to not be able to make the first guy miss and goes down on first contact. He does have the speed though in open space. Having him back there with ronnie will pay huge dividends during the last leg of the season when teams are getting run down defensively.

 

[Clipse]

That is a much better explanation and I whole-heartedly agree. My problem is with the offensive line on screens. While they are getting better, I have seen plays this year and there was one against denver where ronnie just simply outran his blockers because they really weren't doing anything and he was tackled 10 yards later.

What I see are our guys getting out in space and not removing their blockers from the play. Maybe it is bad angles. I have no clue but sometimes I question ronnies field vision. He tends to make the first guy miss and then doesn't seem to get into position or use his blockers well at times. I know I am not down on the field but that is how I see it sometimes. I see ronnie in the mold of westbrook but westbrook is much more polished in terms of field vision.

I do believe that fasano can become more of a center piece of the offense. That would help greg out tremendously. Fasano has impressed me and martin for that matter with their ability to hold onto the football.


I also believe we need to get ricky more involved somehow but I do think he has lost a step. He just seems to not be able to make the first guy miss and goes down on first contact. He does have the speed though in open space. Having him back there with ronnie will pay huge dividends during the last leg of the season when teams are getting run down defensively.

We do a pretty good job blocking on screens. Satele is a beast on screens. I do not know why we don't do more screens than we do. Matter of fact, screens were about the only thing we had going for us last year.

About the Wildcat, I don't think we should scrap it, we should make it more unpredictable. Everyone knows Ronnie is going to keep it, so if only we could incorporate more plays into it.

I agree, Ricky should be used more often. I want to see more Ricky/Ronnie in the same play. Perhaps 3 RB backfields with the emergence of Cobbs as a solid back, the possibilites are there.

 

[BGtoKNfor6]

We do a pretty good job blocking on screens. Satele is a beast on screens. I do not know why we don't do more screens than we do. Matter of fact, screens were about the only thing we had going for us last year.

About the Wildcat, I don't think we should scrap it, we should make it more unpredictable. Everyone knows Ronnie is going to keep it, so if only we could incorporate more plays into it.

I agree, Ricky should be used more often. I want to see more Ricky/Ronnie in the same play. Perhaps 3 RB backfields with the emergence of Cobbs as a solid back, the possibilites are there.

I think the blocking is decent but there is room for improvement. Our line sometimes allows defenders to shed blocks instead of running them out of the play. Look at the buffalo game for a few good examples of that. It isn't all inclusive to screens though. I think it is more of a positional blocking thing and something that can be coached in time.

We have had screens setup where a guy like westbrook would have made the guys miss and taken it to the house and ronnie hasn't at this point been able to do that. Yes he is a VERY good back but I still think he is coming into his own. I still see him very similar to westbrook and that is why I use those analogies. I think he just needs to start running around guys instead of always trying to go through them.