the official senior bowl week discussion thread... | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

the official senior bowl week discussion thread...

mayock just said something interesting about weeden...he said he'll be a 29 year old rookie in october how do you feel as a general manager about a kid who by the time he gets to his second contract will be a 33-34 year old guy...

i think its a valid point...

It has been the question I and many others have said all year. He is too damn old.

A GM has better chance of getting his *** fired for drafting an old quarterback as a franchise's answer to the quarterback than vice-versa.
 
Go sign Matt Flynn and be done with this argument for at least awhile. Flynn, who is slightly younger than Weeden, makes this argument of Weeden obsolete.

Flynn has been in a pro system...Joe Philbin's nonetheless and he is ready to become a NFL starter. He has compete against actual NFL D's and has been around the professional game.

In terms of Weeden HOWEVER, I will still keep an open mind and see how he competes during this week. I am interested to see if he (or whomever) makes the most progress.
 
mayock just said something interesting about weeden...he said he'll be a 29 year old rookie in october how do you feel as a general manager about a kid who by the time he gets to his second contract will be a 33-34 year old guy...

i think its a valid point...


This was the question I brought up to CK in another thread which lead to a longer discussion. & not to rehash it, there were only two starting QBs in the NFL this past year that were that age or older; Tom Brady & Matt Hasselbeck (I'll throw Peyton in there too). Next year you can add Brees & Palmer, so in short you have to be damn near elite to start at that age. Will Weeden be at that level, more than likely not.
 
Go sign Matt Flynn and be done with this argument for at least awhile. Flynn, who is slightly younger than Weeden, makes this argument of Weeden obsolete.

If you can't get Luck, RGIII, or Peyton you keep Moore. He deserves a shot more than spending a pick on Weeden. He's younger, developed as the season went on like you expect, & has proven he can win with this team. He finished the season 6-3, 15 Tds, 5 Ints, 61% completion. Over their final nine games that's better numbers than every starting QB not named Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Stafford, & Ryan, THAT'S IT. His numbers were better than Eli (16 TDs, 11 Ints, 58%, Rec 4-5), Big Ben (12 TDs, 8 Ints, 64%, Rec 7-2), & arguably Rivers (20 TDs, 9 Ints, 62%, Rec 4-5) over that time span.
 
This was the question I brought up to CK in another thread which lead to a longer discussion. & not to rehash it, there were only two starting QBs in the NFL this past year that were that age or older; Tom Brady & Matt Hasselbeck (I'll throw Peyton in there too). Next year you can add Brees & Palmer, so in short you have to be damn near elite to start at that age. Will Weeden be at that level, more than likely not.

Your methodology here is a little bit flawed. There's an obvious survivor's bias in looking at QBs that start over a certain age. They've all been in the league so long that if they're not talented, they've already been found out, and so they bit the dust long ago. The mere fact that there are really good QBs at that age every year that continue starting and playing well shows that IF Brandon Weeden is a good quarterback, then you can fully expect him to continue playing well into that age range.

It's the opposite of what you're trying to imply. It's evidence that your PRIMARY question on Brandon Weeden is, how talented is he? Because, if he's talented, he's going to keep playing into his mid 30's and maybe even beyond. You just showed that by bringing up all those examples.
 
Go sign Matt Flynn and be done with this argument for at least awhile. Flynn, who is slightly younger than Weeden, makes this argument of Weeden obsolete.

Flynn has been in a pro system...Joe Philbin's nonetheless and he is ready to become a NFL starter. He has compete against actual NFL D's and has been around the professional game.

In terms of Weeden HOWEVER, I will still keep an open mind and see how he competes during this week. I am interested to see if he (or whomever) makes the most progress.

An interesting measure considering Weeden went out there on Monday already and observers pretty much unanimously agreed that he showed himself to be head and shoulders above the rest of the quarterbacks in his squad. If progress is what you're looking for, does that mean that if Ryan Lindley improves during the week to where by the end he's looking nearly as impressive as Weeden, you'll take Lindley over Weeden because in your eyes Lindley was the one that made progress?
 
Your methodology here is a little bit flawed. There's an obvious survivor's bias in looking at QBs that start over a certain age. They've all been in the league so long that if they're not talented, they've already been found out, and so they bit the dust long ago. The mere fact that there are really good QBs at that age every year that continue starting and playing well shows that IF Brandon Weeden is a good quarterback, then you can fully expect him to continue playing well into that age range.

It's the opposite of what you're trying to imply. It's evidence that your PRIMARY question on Brandon Weeden is, how talented is he? Because, if he's talented, he's going to keep playing into his mid 30's and maybe even beyond. You just showed that by bringing up all those examples.

I don't follow your logic. My facts back up my point. Weeden will have to be damn near elite to survive as a starter. It's not like he's been resting for years & just decided to play football. He still has a lot of wear & tear on his arm from playing baseball. That's another test he'll have to pass at the combine, how sound is his shoulder which caused the end to his baseball career. But I'm done arguing this point, time will tell.
 
I don't follow your logic. My facts back up my point. Weeden will have to be damn near elite to survive as a starter. It's not like he's been resting for years & just decided to play football. He still has a lot of wear & tear on his arm from playing baseball. That's another test he'll have to pass at the combine, how sound is his shoulder which caused the end to his baseball career. But I'm done arguing this point, time will tell.

I guess you must have lost me right around the point where you insinuated that Matt Hasselbeck is "damn near elite"...
 
The discussion on Weeden is NOT if he can be a starter next year. It is can he beat out Tannehill, Foles or Cousins for the number three spot.

He has work cut out for him. Tannehill has the "upside" that teams will love. Foles is a specimen, that teams will want to work with and Cousins is a four year starter, in a pro system, good arm strength, great character and is of normal age.

I just do not see Weeden over coming this on draft day.

However, again, I am willing to see what he does in a pro setting this week. I said at the start of the week Foles would make up the most ground. However, I am wondering if my boy Kirk Cousins does?
 
If I were a betting man, I think the QB draft order would go something like:

Luck
RG3
Tannehill
Weeden
Wild Card

I think that fifth spot is really open, but I'm pretty confident with the order of the first four. I'd take Tannehill over RG3, though.
 
The discussion on Weeden is NOT if he can be a starter next year. It is can he beat out Tannehill, Foles or Cousins for the number three spot.

He has work cut out for him. Tannehill has the "upside" that teams will love. Foles is a specimen, that teams will want to work with and Cousins is a four year starter, in a pro system, good arm strength, great character and is of normal age.

I just do not see Weeden over coming this on draft day.

However, again, I am willing to see what he does in a pro setting this week. I said at the start of the week Foles would make up the most ground. However, I am wondering if my boy Kirk Cousins does?

It appears thus far that Kirk Cousins is helping himself a lot. He came in taller than 6'2" which some people did not expect. He's up against Russell Wilson and Kellen Clemens, so his arm looks strong next to those guys. That seems to be the thing that is impressing people most about him thus far, the arm strength...because he's throwing it stronger than Moore (obviously) and also Wilson (a little surprising). I heard some say Wilson overall had the more crisp day yesterday but the buzz is stronger right now on Cousins.

On the other hand, the media are very clear and unanimous that Weeden is the best QB there. It doesn't even seem to be a question at this point.
 
Count me among the people having a hard time being impressed with Mike Adams. To me he's not a structurally sound player, more of a waist bender than not, reaches a lot, doesn't play compact or with good balance, and plays far too soft most of the time. His body reminds me a little of Jah Reid from UCF but Reid had better natural pad level, a better back and better knee bend. He plays more like James Brewer in that he's huge and can move pretty well, but Brewer was soft as a wad of cookie dough and not overly effective.
 
What I kind of expected with Kirk Cousins, and it's hard to tell if this is coming to fruition or not, is for him to look good in 7 on 7's and other pressureless drills, but when you get him into situations where he's got to handle pressure, he will look shakey. I also expect him to throw interceptions. It sounds like he threw one ot George Iloka but I can't tell so far if evaluators are dinging him for it.
 
The discussion on Weeden is NOT if he can be a starter next year. It is can he beat out Tannehill, Foles or Cousins for the number three spot.

He has work cut out for him. Tannehill has the "upside" that teams will love. Foles is a specimen, that teams will want to work with and Cousins is a four year starter, in a pro system, good arm strength, great character and is of normal age.

I just do not see Weeden over coming this on draft day.

However, again, I am willing to see what he does in a pro setting this week. I said at the start of the week Foles would make up the most ground. However, I am wondering if my boy Kirk Cousins does?

Thank you Chairman Mao for once again trying to define the discussion. Unfortunately, yet again, you're wrong. There is no reason why Weeden can't step in and be an NFL starter in his rookie year. Newton, Dalton, Ponder, Gabbert, take your pick- and that's just from last year. Even if he spent his first year getting acclimated, that's fine. No one- njot RGIII, Tannehill, Foles, take your pick, has Weeden's superior arm. He's by all accounts a cerebral player, outstanding leader and a great guy. Weeden's upside next year wiill be to fight for a #3 spot? Hardly. The day that he steps on an NFL field he'll already be better that Pat Devlin or JP Losman.

You consistently sell Weeden short, due to your age bias and quite frankly, I doubt that you've watched enough of him to have a firm opinion, or maybe rating QBs isn't one of your fortes. I'll say it again- the fact that you rated Landry Jones ahead of Weeden, especially after watching thm play head to head, tells me all that I need to know about your rating of QBs. An I could care less how Kiper, our dear Walter from Walter Football or anyone else has the QBs rated- the tape don't lie. You clearly have no idea how good Brandon Weeden is.
 
I guess you must have lost me right around the point where you insinuated that Matt Hasselbeck is "damn near elite"...

As Terrell Suggs told Skip Bayless yesterday, don't be a douche bag, you know that comment was in reference to Brady, Manning, Brees, & Palmer. Hasselbeck's career took a steep nose dive in 2005 when... surprise surprise he turned 33.
 
Back
Top Bottom