the official senior bowl week discussion thread... | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

the official senior bowl week discussion thread...

SMadison29 said:
As Terrell Suggs told Skip Bayless yesterday, don't be a douche bag, you know that comment was in reference to Brady, Manning, Brees, & Palmer. Hasselbeck's career took a steep nose dive in 2005 when... surprise surprise he turned 33.
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I see. So disagreeing with you and pointing out the obvious holes in your logic = "being a douchebag". Got it. Nice discussion.
 
jim1 said:
Thank you Chairman Mao for once again trying to define the discussion. Unfortunately, yet again, you're wrong. There is no reason why Weeden can't step in and be an NFL starter in his rookie year. Newton, Dalton, Ponder, Gabbert, take your pick- and that's just from last year. Even if he spent his first year getting acclimated, that's fine. No one- njot RGIII, Tannehill, Foles, take your pick, has Weeden's superior arm. He's by all accounts a cerebral player, outstanding leader and a great guy. Weeden's upside next year wiill be to fight for a #3 spot? Hardly. The day that he steps on an NFL field he'll already be better that Pat Devlin or JP Losman.

You consistently sell Weeden short, due to your age bias and quite frankly, I doubt that you've watched enough of him to have a firm opinion, or maybe rating QBs isn't one of your fortes. I'll say it again- the fact that you rated Landry Jones ahead of Weeden, especially after watching thm play head to head, tells me all that I need to know about your rating of QBs. An I could care less how Kiper, our dear Walter from Walter Football or anyone else has the QBs rated- the tape don't lie. You clearly have no idea how good Brandon Weeden is.
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Why I am Mao Tse Tung? Could he evaluate football talent?
 
I think the Fins will go with a pass rusher at 8 or 9...especially if the team goes to a 4-3. Do people think Coples will be there? Ironically enough, the Panthers could use a player like him too. Could be a big coin flip. Is Upshaw a pure 3-4 OLB or not?

IF Coples is off the board, what is of value later in the draft to be watching this week? I think we would go with an explosive receiving threat at 8 or 9 if no pass rusher is there.

Let me hear what people think.
 
I'll just put this in here cause Russell Wilson is in the Senior Bowl

A little fact to cosider is that the Wisconsin OL is bigger than all but 3 NFL OL's and is practically identical in size to the Green Bay Packers OL.

Wilson played in a pro style offense, so I think his height issue isn't that big of a deal.
 
I haven't been following closely, so I'll trust the judgment of those here:

Who have been the most surprising (hype as a measurement?)
Who have been the most underwhelming (hype as a measurement?)
If you could choose one player from each position, who would it be?
 
Hayden Fox said:
I think the Fins will go with a pass rusher at 8 or 9...especially if the team goes to a 4-3. Do people think Coples will be there? Ironically enough, the Panthers could use a player like him too. Could be a big coin flip. Is Upshaw a pure 3-4 OLB or not?

IF Coples is off the board, what is of value later in the draft to be watching this week? I think we would go with an explosive receiving threat at 8 or 9 if no pass rusher is there.

Let me hear what people think.
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The whole issue of that 8 or 9 pick is problematic. As to WR, I like Michael Floyd. Alshon Jefrfey is ok, but he's in the mold of, from what I've seen, Barandon Marshall but slower and less quick. Just my observations there, not sure. Floyd is solid, but no burner. I still like Joe Adams, and I reject the notion that he's a duplicate of Clyde Gates- I still have high hopes for Gates btw, but he sure does need to show more. But Adams is a burner and looks WAY quicker to me, will blow away Gates on returns, too.

The point is, what do you do with that pick? Is Michael Floyd a reach there? My guess is yes- not a huge rerach, but a reach. Courtney Upshaw- he's fine, but I'd rather draft O. So who do you take? I'd be all for a trade down, but I'm still thinking David DeCastro, for need, value, and because he's just a stud, a rare OG prospect. And if my personal favorite Brandon Weeden isn't there or we do get say a Peyton Manning or Matt Flynn, then I'm looking really hard at Coby Fleener in the 2nd rd.
 
Hayden Fox said:
I think the Fins will go with a pass rusher at 8 or 9...especially if the team goes to a 4-3. Do people think Coples will be there? Ironically enough, the Panthers could use a player like him too. Could be a big coin flip. Is Upshaw a pure 3-4 OLB or not?

IF Coples is off the board, what is of value later in the draft to be watching this week? I think we would go with an explosive receiving threat at 8 or 9 if no pass rusher is there.

Let me hear what people think.
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I too think right now that a Quinton Coples would be the strongest bet, unless there's a trade down. All the talk about moving to a 4-3, that fits with taking Coples. I'm sold on Quinton as a prospect. I think that's a good top 10 pick.

I don't think Courtney Upshaw or Melvin Ingram will end up Dolphins. I strongly doubt it. Ireland is a prototype guy, taught by Parcells. They don't fit the prototypes. I don't agree with it, but I don't see Ireland taking either guy as high as we're talking about. He might consider them much lower, like the 2nd round...but they won't last that long. At least, Upshaw won't. Ingram I'm not so sure.

I don't believe the Panthers are a threat to take Coples. They're very happy with Greg Hardy and Charles Johnson. They gave Johnson a big contract and Hardy is an excellent Defensive End. That area is fine for them. They need secondary, need a wide receiver, need a defensive tackle, need help at linebacker depending on which players they let go...defensive end is one of the last on the list.
 
if it's 43 i'm down with coples...imo our biggest comp for coples is what i've been sayin all along if its not qb in jax which it doesn't appear to be even though imo they should be looking that way its 43 de...ie coples

i agree with ck that i don't think ireland will use a top 10 pick on upshaw or ingram due to height...i just think he'll be a stickler...not that i'd consider ingram in the top 10 anyways...

most disappointing guy for me yesterday at least off what little i saw was dennard...for me at least
 
ckparrothead said:
Count me among the people having a hard time being impressed with Mike Adams. To me he's not a structurally sound player, more of a waist bender than not, reaches a lot, doesn't play compact or with good balance, and plays far too soft most of the time. His body reminds me a little of Jah Reid from UCF but Reid had better natural pad level, a better back and better knee bend. He plays more like James Brewer in that he's huge and can move pretty well, but Brewer was soft as a wad of cookie dough and not overly effective.
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i agree with the lack of strength part...i'm not sure i agree with the rest of it however...but frankly i only got to see what 4 reps in one on ones....and he's not someone i've payed much attention to this year...
 
It's really too bad because Upshaw is a BEAST and he's showing it at Senior Bowl practices according to what I've heard.

But Coples is also a beast and he's also showing it.

Brandon Weeden buzz is reaching a crescendo right now. He's killing these practices. He's head and shoulders better than all the QBs in Mobile this week, and that's not me talking that's people down there.

Slimm can talk about how it's never the guy that dominates in Mobile or All Star settings but I don't think that's really true. I just don't agree with that. That's not been my experience tracking at all. There's a difference between sort of a muddy competition where one guy looks better one day, another guy another day, maybe a different guy ends up looking good in the game...and a guy going out there and DOMINATING. Last year, that QB situation was absolutely muddy. Was it Kaepernick that was the best? Some said Locker. Some said it was Ponder. Stanzi had a good day here and there. Nobody knew. Only thing agreed upon was Ponder had the best game. Same was true of Pat White's Senior Bowl appearance. He got the MVP of the game, but he did his damage running the ball. He wasn't really creating a ton of buzz during the week.

From what I heard, Joe Flacco dominated Shrine practices. Not muddy, not kinda good, not good on Tuesday but bad other days, dominated. Lots of buzz. Same with Phil Rivers at the Senior Bowl, absolutely dominated. Same with Carson Palmer at the Senior Bowl. Same with Jay Cutler, tons of buzz, rocketed up the draft boards during senior bowl practice week.

It's not perfect, but it's meaningful.
 
ckparrothead said:
I see. So disagreeing with you and pointing out the obvious holes in your logic = "being a douchebag". Got it. Nice discussion.
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a)You didn't point out any flaws in the logic. Scouts are asking the same question. Just because you have a man crush on Weeden doesn't mean he's going to be in the Brady, Manning, Brees, Palmer category. b)The douche bag comment is in reference to twisting the meaning of my statement. You're intelligent enough to know that.
 
ckparrothead said:
I don't believe the Panthers are a threat to take Coples. They're very happy with Greg Hardy and Charles Johnson. They gave Johnson a big contract and Hardy is an excellent Defensive End. That area is fine for them. They need secondary, need a wide receiver, need a defensive tackle, need help at linebacker depending on which players they let go...defensive end is one of the last on the list.
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You can add OT to the top of their needs list. Jordan Gross is 34 & Jeff Otah has only played four games the previous two years & whose career may be over due to multiple surgeries on his left knee & back issues.
 
Brandon Weeden was always going to be the best QB in Mobile this week. I fail to realize why that's a revelation. Especially in this setting. Weeden can flat out spin the football, I don't know anyone that said he couldn't.

Not to mention, he's competing against QB's that were always either completely undraftable in my opinion (Kellen Moore, etc.) or sytem QB's like Nick Foles who's always had trouble pulling the trigger. Ryan Lindley has accuracy issues and is just a streaky quarterback in general. Russell Wilson is a 5'10" quarterback who'll probably make a roster somewhere and might make a decent 5th/6th round pick. Kirk Cousins is going to fool a lot of people down in Mobile this week. His decision making in games and penchant for throwing into the worse coverages possible against good defenses is there over the past 3 years for anyone that took the time to watch.

As I said before, it's just an underwhelming group at the Senior Bowl this year in general outside of the defensive line prospects, and a few good players sprinkled in here and there at RB, TE, LB and DB.



Relax. We all know how much you love Brandon Weeden. It's perfectly clear. We get to find out how good all these guys are going to be in the NFL where Big-12 defenses don't exist.

He's a good quarterback prospect. What exactly is it that you want us to do?
 
A thought on Weeden's age and career length:

I recently read and article where Tom Brady stated that he wanted to play until he's 40. Trent Dilfer went on to say that usually the first thing that goes with a QB's age is his legs. He can't get his legs moving to drive the ball like a QB should. Brady is working to keep his legs in top shape so he can play at a reasonable high level until the age of 40.

Weeden doesn't have the wear on his legs that a usual college QB does because he spent a few years in baseball. Who's to say that Weeden can't play until he's 40? Assuming he's your starter this year (not out of the question) then if he plays until he's 40 then that's around 10 years as a franchise QB. Is that any different than drafting a 22 year old, developing him for 2 years and then having him playing until 36 or 37?
 
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