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The Pach's 2021 Quarterbacks (Underclassman)

I just can't cotton to these Mahomes comparisons with Zach Wilson.

Patrick Mahomes had virtually no pocket structure when he came out and it was specifically because the combination of Kliff Kingsbury's wide line splits, the Air Raid offense, and the total lack of talent on the TTech offensive line had Patrick Mahomes running for his damn life on every play. That sort of constant pressure created a god damned diamond with Mahomes.

Zach Wilson could read F. Scott Fitzgerald novels while rollerblading in the backfield behind that BYU offensive line. And on the very rare occasions when the defensive front actually started to get to him a little more, that's where he struggled.

One thing you learn when you do so much charting and timing of throws is how to standardize so that you get fair basis for comparison. Not all throws can be powered the same way. You need a lot of the classic setup-and-throw stuff at different distances and on certain routes that don't call for feathering. Anyway Phil Simms does the same exercise looking for those classic setup-and-throw clips from the contemporary QBs because he teaches to young QBs, and he's noted that more and more it's becoming hard to find those standard throws. In my mind, Patrick Mahomes was the epitome of that. I could rarely find a single throw I could cap, time, and chart. Everything was non-standard, on the run, off balance, pressured, etc.

That's just not the case with Zach Wilson. He and Mahomes aren't birds of a feather. They're opposite sides of the spectrum. Mahomes had it so hard in college he got to the NFL and it got easier. Wilson's had it easy in college. So what comes next for him?
 
ckparrothead said:
I just can't cotton to these Mahomes comparisons with Zach Wilson.

Patrick Mahomes had virtually no pocket structure when he came out and it was specifically because the combination of Kliff Kingsbury's wide line splits, the Air Raid offense, and the total lack of talent on the TTech offensive line had Patrick Mahomes running for his damn life on every play. That sort of constant pressure created a god damned diamond with Mahomes.

Zach Wilson could read F. Scott Fitzgerald novels while rollerblading in the backfield behind that BYU offensive line. And on the very rare occasions when the defensive front actually started to get to him a little more, that's where he struggled.

One thing you learn when you do so much charting and timing of throws is how to standardize so that you get fair basis for comparison. Not all throws can be powered the same way. You need a lot of the classic setup-and-throw stuff at different distances and on certain routes that don't call for feathering. Anyway Phil Simms does the same exercise looking for those classic setup-and-throw clips from the contemporary QBs because he teaches to young QBs, and he's noted that more and more it's becoming hard to find those standard throws. In my mind, Patrick Mahomes was the epitome of that. I could rarely find a single throw I could cap, time, and chart. Everything was non-standard, on the run, off balance, pressured, etc.

That's just not the case with Zach Wilson. He and Mahomes aren't birds of a feather. They're opposite sides of the spectrum. Mahomes had it so hard in college he got to the NFL and it got easier. Wilson's had it easy in college. So what comes next for him?
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I don't think anybody ever said Zach Wilson retreated and scrambled all over the place like Mahomes at Texas Tech. Frankly, you never want anybody compared to Mahomes if that is the criteria. It was a scattergun offense combined with Mahomes taking off and wandering around on his own like the Bob Lilly play even when a perfectly normal throw was available. That's why I had virtually no opinion on Mahomes. I despise Big 12 offenses enough as it is, without being asked to watch Texas Tech. Besides, visit West Texas along I-40 and talk to the locals. That's not my type of world. As I've gotten older I'm happy to apply that type of thinking toward who I watch and who I root for.

Wilson has rare ability to alter platform and make piercing wow throws out of nowhere, while also carrying enough athletic ability to create on his feet. Obviously he's unlikely to pan out anywhere close to Mahomes. That's not what a comparison is. When I see a young PGA pro I recognize the swing as similar to a top guy from 10 or 40 years ago. I'll mention it on those forums to widespread agreement. Obviously when you are making a swing comparison like that it has to be to a top player of yesteryear, a recognizable name. Nobody makes comparisons to journeyman guys who flunked one cut after another. I have no idea why that reality is not recognized around here. We're not going to have a wave of comparisons to Paxton Lynch or Easton Stick.
 
I hope everyone watched the Dan Orlovsky segment on NFL Live this afternoon. He broke down exactly what I've been trying to say about Justin Fields' throwing motion with the high elbow and how it differs from ideal and differs from the other top four quarterback prospects.

That segment was so in line with my thought process -- and a post I made earlier today in a Justin Fields thread -- that it was like I wrote the script. Orlovsky showed the throwing motion of Lawrence, Wilson, Jones and Lance and how similar they are. He compared all of them to a candy cane or a C in terms of the arm path. The tracer was almost identical for Lawrence, Wilson and Jones. Same shape and length. The tracer is similar with Lance but much longer. I emphasized that earlier today in this forum, that Lance keeps his elbow down in the proper place, but the overall motion is longer. All four of those quarterbacks had throwing motions requiring .4 to .6 from start to finish. Wilson was quickest at .4

Contrast to Justin Fields. Orlovsky drew the tracer on Fields' wacky throwing motion with the high elbow. He said it was "totally different" and "like a wire going all over the place." Consequently Fields' throwing motion takes significantly longer, .8 of a second. That's huge in the big league. It equates to windows closed instead of open.

Orlovsky said it was a "mechanical flaw that separates him from the other top quarterbacks." Later he stood up and demonstrated that Fields holds the ball below the elbow when it should be the other way around. Precisely. Orlovsky said, "I think this is a mechanical issue with Justin that teams have identified and said, we don't like that, because it takes longer to get out."

I realize my mechanical analysis can sound overdone sometimes. But I lived in Las Vegas as a sports bettor for 24 years. We made huge wagers against each other in man to man situations, like the result of field goal attempts, whether the ball would be left of absolute center or right of absolute center. Very precise stuff like that. In that setting you have to identify mechanical issues and how they hold up under pressure, or you've got no chance.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I hope everyone watched the Dan Orlovsky segment on NFL Live this afternoon. He broke down exactly what I've been trying to say about Justin Fields' throwing motion with the high elbow and how it differs from ideal and differs from the other top four quarterback prospects.

That segment was so in line with my thought process -- and a post I made earlier today in a Justin Fields thread -- that it was like I wrote the script. Orlovsky showed the throwing motion of Lawrence, Wilson, Jones and Lance and how similar they are. He compared all of them to a candy cane or a C in terms of the arm path. The tracer was almost identical for Lawrence, Wilson and Jones. Same shape and length. The tracer is similar with Lance but much longer. I emphasized that earlier today in this forum, that Lance keeps his elbow down in the proper place, but the overall motion is longer. All four of those quarterbacks had throwing motions requiring .4 to .6 from start to finish. Wilson was quickest at .4

Contrast to Justin Fields. Orlovsky drew the tracer on Fields' wacky throwing motion with the high elbow. He said it was "totally different" and "like a wire going all over the place." Consequently Fields' throwing motion takes significantly longer, .8 of a second. That's huge in the big league. It equates to windows closed instead of open.

Orlovsky said it was a "mechanical flaw that separates him from the other top quarterbacks." Later he stood up and demonstrated that Fields holds the ball below the elbow when it should be the other way around. Precisely. Orlovsky said, "I think this is a mechanical issue with Justin that teams have identified and said, we don't like that, because it takes longer to get out."

I realize my mechanical analysis can sound overdone sometimes. But I lived in Las Vegas as a sports bettor for 24 years. We made huge wagers against each other in man to man situations, like the result of field goal attempts, whether the ball would be left of absolute center or right of absolute center. Very precise stuff like that. In that setting you have to identify mechanical issues and how they hold up under pressure, or you've got no chance.
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It's definitely the biggest knock imo. I'd still bet on everything else - especially since he's the most accurate downfield passer in the class. Think his throwing motion reminds me a bit of a shortstop wind-up, and he was a shortstop.

He definitely has things to clean up, but he reminds me a lot of Russell Wilson - but more physically talented.
 
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