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The Pach's 2021 Quarterbacks (Underclassman)

Pachyderm_Wave

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The only problem I see with Trey Lance is you just don't know what you're getting in terms of a competitor because he hasn't faced any adversity yet. You don't even know how he responds to an interception. Only one year of football on film and level of competition is a question.

Finally threw his first interception against Central Arkansas in his only game NDSU played this year, but he just dominated on the ground being a runner.

The tape looks good. Big and athletic. Can move in the pocket. He'll stand in there against a free rusher and not flinch - deliver a dime with velocity and trajectory into tight windows. I certainly see the upside. Has a bit of overstride a lot like Jalen Hurts. In fact - his mechanics, body language and the way he plays looks exactly like a bigger Jalen Hurts. Except with a much faster process. Always calm and cool. Winner.

Completely comfortable turning his back to the defense and getting his head back around to relocate safeties, just needs to carry out the play action fakes more and improve his ball handling. If the right coach gets his hands on him - looks like he could be a player. Does a lot of things that translate.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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what are the experts thoughts on Ridder?
I dont get to see al as much college ball as I would love to.i have watched him play in a few games and he has looked solid.
With Fitzy maybe retiring maybe not.Would he be ideal to put behind a backup to Tua to let him grow?
If anyone says that he reminds them of Huntley then I'll pass because that's kinda my take on him.

He's improved as a passer, but he's still most dangerous as a runner. Still a project - lacks consistency in his reads. He's getting there though. I'd be surprised if he declared - still needs more time.
 

LargoFin

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Ridder is kind a like Lock, slightly better. I think he can be safely taken in the first round, but the value is no later than 2nd round. He should come out, unless next year he can be top 10.
 

ckparrothead

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I remember not rating Carson Wentz the same way others did because there was so little you could really know about him, aside from the obvious physical talents that he flashed. He played in the FCS, didn't play that many games, didn't even necessarily do all that well when he faced FBS opponents. It was like all the stuff people said about the lack of experience for Ryan Tannehill (or if you go back further Mark Sanchez), except even worse because it was at the FCS level. Carson got to the NFL, lit the world on fire for a year, but is now floundering, benched. He's not been handling the adversity or professional atmosphere, rumors often swirling about the way teammates regard him, which is one of the things you had to wonder about him coming from a place like NDSU. He's not shown the year to year consistency, which means he's not transitioned his physical talent into technical acumen and consistency that has to be achieved if you want to be consistent in the NFL. Again, these are things you tend to wonder about when you see a guy that doesn't have much experience.

So now we have Trey Lance. Comes from the same bubble of dominance over lesser opponents. Has even less experience than Wentz did, with Wentz himself having even less experience than Tannehill did, and remember Tannehill was (rightly) criticized on the basis of lack of experience. Lance is not as physically gifted as Wentz, particularly as a passer. He wasn't particularly impressive when he faced an FBS opponent. And that was Central Arkansas, it wasn't like Bailey Zappe marching into Jones Stadium and taking it to Texas Tech in their own house.

When I think of the boom-or-bust nature of the 2021 NFL Draft, something I've been talking about for a while, due to COVID and all the interruptions to business-as-usual, all the information gathering that hasn't happened, all the games and opportunities for accurately sifting the class that has been missed, Trey Lance is pretty much the poster boy for it. His picture should be on every cover of everything written about the 2021 Draft. He's the epitome of the relative black hole of information that teams and scouts face when trying to sort through the players and ID the most reliable assets.

I don't dislike Trey Lance at all. The first time I looked at him, I could point out the talent that would probably make him a 1st rounder. Same as I did with Wentz. Sometimes the risk analyst in me comes out, and that's what is happening here just as it did with Wentz. And I may end up looking like a fool for a while, just as I did with Wentz. If I were desperate for a quarterback, I'd probably roll the dice, just as I would have with Wentz. But if Lance ends up going Top 5 like Wentz did, I probably couldn't condone it.
 

jimthefin

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There is a lot to like about Trey Lance.

Sure you would like to have seen more, and against better competition, but he going to impress when he works out.

As for Wentz, he was the presumptive MVP when he got hurt, more than justifying being taken as high as he was.

His confidence is shot right now but he clearly is not the same player physically, and may never be again, which is a shame.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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I remember not rating Carson Wentz the same way others did because there was so little you could really know about him, aside from the obvious physical talents that he flashed. He played in the FCS, didn't play that many games, didn't even necessarily do all that well when he faced FBS opponents. It was like all the stuff people said about the lack of experience for Ryan Tannehill (or if you go back further Mark Sanchez), except even worse because it was at the FCS level. Carson got to the NFL, lit the world on fire for a year, but is now floundering, benched. He's not been handling the adversity or professional atmosphere, rumors often swirling about the way teammates regard him, which is one of the things you had to wonder about him coming from a place like NDSU. He's not shown the year to year consistency, which means he's not transitioned his physical talent into technical acumen and consistency that has to be achieved if you want to be consistent in the NFL. Again, these are things you tend to wonder about when you see a guy that doesn't have much experience.

So now we have Trey Lance. Comes from the same bubble of dominance over lesser opponents. Has even less experience than Wentz did, with Wentz himself having even less experience than Tannehill did, and remember Tannehill was (rightly) criticized on the basis of lack of experience. Lance is not as physically gifted as Wentz, particularly as a passer. He wasn't particularly impressive when he faced an FBS opponent. And that was Central Arkansas, it wasn't like Bailey Zappe marching into Jones Stadium and taking it to Texas Tech in their own house.

When I think of the boom-or-bust nature of the 2021 NFL Draft, something I've been talking about for a while, due to COVID and all the interruptions to business-as-usual, all the information gathering that hasn't happened, all the games and opportunities for accurately sifting the class that has been missed, Trey Lance is pretty much the poster boy for it. His picture should be on every cover of everything written about the 2021 Draft. He's the epitome of the relative black hole of information that teams and scouts face when trying to sort through the players and ID the most reliable assets.

I don't dislike Trey Lance at all. The first time I looked at him, I could point out the talent that would probably make him a 1st rounder. Same as I did with Wentz. Sometimes the risk analyst in me comes out, and that's what is happening here just as it did with Wentz. And I may end up looking like a fool for a while, just as I did with Wentz. If I were desperate for a quarterback, I'd probably roll the dice, just as I would have with Wentz. But if Lance ends up going Top 5 like Wentz did, I probably couldn't condone it.

I didn't like Carson Wentz. I had a hard time putting him over Jake Coker.

Zappe transferred to W. Kentucky by the way - followed his OC.
 

ckparrothead

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I didn't like Carson Wentz. I had a hard time putting him over Jake Coker.

Zappe transferred to W. Kentucky by the way - followed his OC.

That's a good spot for him. It's big enough he could catch some attention. It's not a situation he'd be stepping into with very little time to absorb the new offense and get to know new teammates and then BAM you're smacked in the face with SEC pressure before you've even got your legs under you.

Following Zach Kittley is pretty big because I think he might be a rising star, too.
 

j-off-her-doll

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If I was building a team, I'd lean Fields, too. The Top 3 are close enough that situation will likely determine who people see as "the best" 5+ years from now, but none of the QB's have shown elite processing or instincts - all have weird quirks they'll need to improve. Fields, though, has the most dynamic toolbox.

He has the worst throwing mechanics, but he's shown improvement. Wilson has the sweetest release imo, but he gets lazy with his lower half too often. I'd feel good drafting any of them - Top 10 - but a good OC could do so much with Fields as they're developing the nuances of his game.

I like that Fields hasn't relied on his legs as much as he could have. I understand the Cam Newton comps - some of the mechanical issues look similar - but Fields is a much more natural passer, and he was asked to do more QB things.

Arm strength: Fields > Lawrence > Wilson
Wheels: Fields > Wilson > Lawrence

All show excellent accuracy and playmaking ability. Wilson is the one that gets too cute, but as long as you like the person/trust that he's coachable, it's not too concerning.

Given the value of the position, there's no question in my mind that the draft should start QB, QB, QB. If Miami has the 3rd pick, they should be able to trade down for a real haul - big gap between the Top 3 and every other QB.

If Miami isn't able to trade down (doubtful), they should at least consider drafting whoever ends up QB3 - not as any indictment on Tua, just recognition of the value of the position - especially since they still have a ton of picks - and the quality of the the 2021 QB's. I want Miami to spend the draft on offense anyway - WR, OL, and (later) RB. Say you think Tua is 50%+ to hit big, and you think these guys are 30-40%, the position is worth increasing your chances even if you love the guy you have.

While I'd prefer to add an elite talent at WR like Smith, Miami could still build an explosive group of WR's without him. If you're picking Top 5, it's really hard to maximize the value of that pick without trading down or drafting a QB. Doubt Miami would really go that route, but they should take the option seriously imo.
 

ANUFan

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Given the value of the position, there's no question in my mind that the draft should start QB, QB, QB. If Miami has the 3rd pick, they should be able to trade down for a real haul - big gap between the Top 3 and every other QB.

If Miami isn't able to trade down (doubtful), they should at least consider drafting whoever ends up QB3 - not as any indictment on Tua, just recognition of the value of the position - especially since they still have a ton of picks - and the quality of the the 2021 QB's. I want Miami to spend the draft on offense anyway - WR, OL, and (later) RB. Say you think Tua is 50%+ to hit big, and you think these guys are 30-40%, the position is worth increasing your chances even if you love the guy you have.

While I'd prefer to add an elite talent at WR like Smith, Miami could still build an explosive group of WR's without him. If you're picking Top 5, it's really hard to maximize the value of that pick without trading down or drafting a QB. Doubt Miami would really go that route, but they should take the option seriously imo.

Absolutely cannot do it!

-Respectfully submitted.
 
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j-off-her-doll makes some interesting points. We most likely will not see a pick this high again in the next decade (assuming we stay at 3). QB is the most important position and the chances of getting it right increase with another blue chip prospect. While the 3rd pick isn't free, it seems like a luxury pick for a 10-11 win team. I am not advocating the pick of a quarterback at 3, but the front office should think about it, right? We have seen this franchise with a top quarterback (Marino) and without one (since Marino). We all hope Tua is that guy.

Completely hypothetical since there is no way to know this right now...but if Tua ends up being a top 12-15 quarterback in the league and a kid like Wilson is a top 5 quarterback in the league, do you make that pick? This probably isn't a great comparison because I am just throwing some names out regardless of where they were drafted, but if you drafted Matt Ryan, would you double down and draft Aaron Rodgers the following year.

I know there are so many layers to this decision like salary cap, who gets playing time, qb controvery and its effect on team dynamics, etc. J-off should start a new topic on this. I would be curious to see people weigh in on this.
 

Kebo

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If Lawrence goes #1 and Sewell goes #2 I am trying to trade down. I feel like there would be multiple offers. If there are no offers for #3 then I am taking Justin Fields.
 

Rick Cartman

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I have to eat crow on Fields, after watching him this past weekend against Clemson my opinion has changed on him. It may have been clouded due to the preferential treatment Ohio State has been getting all season from the CFB committee.
 

HeavenCent

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I like Desmond Ridder from Cincy. If he comes out, I wouldn’t hate using a pick on him as a hedge against Tua not working out.

I still believe in Tua, but I would feel better if Ridder was the floor, not Rudock. Develop and flip once Tua takes off. And if Tua doesn’t work out, you have an option that you’ve developed in your system.

Wonder if he can be had in the 4th...probably wishful thinking. Would be open to using a third
 

LargoFin

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If Miami isn't able to trade down (doubtful), they should at least consider drafting whoever ends up QB3 - not as any indictment on Tua,

Unfortunately it is an indictment on Tua's athletic ability and what is minimally expected for the position.
 
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