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The Pach's 2021 Quarterbacks (Underclassman)

He needs to stop showing off and practicing off platform throws and focus more on the fundamentals of making the simple throws, at times he loses his mechanics because he thinks it’s such an easy throw he can just get it there without focus of feet, hips and shoulders.This causes his inaccuracies from time time.

That's what I see. I liked your entire summary. Zach Wilson is immensely talented but he does it in a showboating lazy fashion that often lends to poorly distributed weight and therefore errant throws. His arm isn't special enough to get away with that in the pros. Everything needs to be tightened up toward simplicity. He also runs a bit high and slides a half stride too late. That's going to be smackeroo unless he realizes he doesn't need that extra yard.

I have to say I enjoyed the belly laugh that we're not allowed to compare anyone to anyone without first sampling the archives for accurate prior assessments of said player. That's taking insecurity to new Wallenda heights. Nobody is good enough at this for anyone to care or bow. That's the whiff. I'm amazed it is not universally understood. Self touting means squat when it's too simple to remember or research all the flubs. djphinfan is the best guy here in many respects because he does offer all the detailed multifaceted scouting reports like the Wilson example above, with a great track record but not so full of himself. He doesn't run away from mistakes like Dion Jordan or dangle daily based on Twitter review.

BTW, Zach Wilson did defeat three ranked teams...USC in 2019 and Boise State both in 2019 and 2020.

Also BTW, Ourlads shipped the draft guide at record speed this year after I decided late to extend my streak of 44 years of ordering at least one physical book. The cover itself paid for the book. There are action photos of the 5 top quarterback prospects plus Pitts. The photo of Mac Jones' release was so familiar. It took me a few minutes to place it. Chad Pennington. That's it. There was an almost identical photo of Pennington's relaxed over the top mechanics when he was coming out of Marshall. Likewise the photo of Justin Fields was extremely familiar. That one took all of two seconds. Carson Wentz. The photo shows Fields with the very high elbow, and therefore awkward arm angle requiring constant last second adjustment based on type of throw. I started mentioning Wentz' high elbow many years ago and how it screwed up his touch and accuracy. It will be very interesting to see what Frank Reich can do with it. Fields likewise needs a remodeling. I have mentioned that high elbow and crankup delivery and how it impacts his midrange throws. In golf that flying elbow is derisively called a chicken wing.
 
Can I see your list? Easy to say now. :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :cool: :KIP:

I guarantee I could post many on the record posts that have myself and CK stating that Pat Mahomes be the #1 overall pick..I said it after his sophomore year..

if you really want me too I will go back and find the posts?

for real sir.
 
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That's what I see. I liked your entire summary. Zach Wilson is immensely talented but he does it in a showboating lazy fashion that often lends to poorly distributed weight and therefore errant throws. His arm isn't special enough to get away with that in the pros. Everything needs to be tightened up toward simplicity. He also runs a bit high and slides a half stride too late. That's going to be smackeroo unless he realizes he doesn't need that extra yard.

I have to say I enjoyed the belly laugh that we're not allowed to compare anyone to anyone without first sampling the archives for accurate prior assessments of said player. That's taking insecurity to new Wallenda heights. Nobody is good enough at this for anyone to care or bow. That's the whiff. I'm amazed it is not universally understood. Self touting means squat when it's too simple to remember or research all the flubs. djphinfan is the best guy here in many respects because he does offer all the detailed multifaceted scouting reports like the Wilson example above, with a great track record but not so full of himself. He doesn't run away from mistakes like Dion Jordan or dangle daily based on Twitter review.

BTW, Zach Wilson did defeat three ranked teams...USC in 2019 and Boise State both in 2019 and 2020.

Also BTW, Ourlads shipped the draft guide at record speed this year after I decided late to extend my streak of 44 years of ordering at least one physical book. The cover itself paid for the book. There are action photos of the 5 top quarterback prospects plus Pitts. The photo of Mac Jones' release was so familiar. It took me a few minutes to place it. Chad Pennington. That's it. There was an almost identical photo of Pennington's relaxed over the top mechanics when he was coming out of Marshall. Likewise the photo of Justin Fields was extremely familiar. That one took all of two seconds. Carson Wentz. The photo shows Fields with the very high elbow, and therefore awkward arm angle requiring constant last second adjustment based on type of throw. I started mentioning Wentz' high elbow many years ago and how it screwed up his touch and accuracy. It will be very interesting to see what Frank Reich can do with it. Fields likewise needs a remodeling. I have mentioned that high elbow and crankup delivery and how it impacts his midrange throws. In golf that flying elbow is derisively called a chicken wing.

Zach Wilson didn't even play against Boise St. in 2019.

Three picks by Slovis and he did manage to squeak by USC in 2019. Making him 1-6 against ranked teams.

He's talented and if he pans out it's just because somebody got lucky. It won't be because of what they saw him do in college. He's got some pocket presence issues reminiscent of Gabbert.
 
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It doesn't seem like a foolish request, to me lol..anyone can claim that they had, "SO and SO #1 back in ____ year, etc." Sorry it's too much effort and energy to expand for you lol

It's foolishness to assume I'm lying unless I can prove that I'm telling the truth.

Why would I lie? What do I have to gain? Are you gonna pay me money because I had a high opinion of Patrick Mahomes going all the way back to his first appearance against Oklahoma State in 2014, when he came onto the field in place of Davis Webb and screwed me over on my picking Oklahoma State to cover the spread?

You're just being a dick. And I've got no time for it.
 
Zach Wilson didn't even play against Boise St. in 2019.

Three picks by Slovis and he did manage to squeak by USC in 2019. Making him 1-6 against ranked teams.

He's talented and if he pans out it's just because somebody got lucky. It won't be because of what they saw him do in college. He's got some pocket presence issues reminiscent of Gabbert.

I think this is kind of it with Zach Wilson, if he pans out you got lucky. He's a roll of the dice. There's so much you can't really know about him because he had so much time and space to operate behind that BYU offensive line against that schedule they played.

I'd roll the dice though. He's got talent and even though he lost that Coastal Carolina game, I like what he showed at the end of it in a pressure situation.

Said it before he's like a mix of Jared Goff and Drew Lock. Not such a bad thing. Could be really good. Could be bad. Tough to know.
 
That's what I see. I liked your entire summary. Zach Wilson is immensely talented but he does it in a showboating lazy fashion that often lends to poorly distributed weight and therefore errant throws. His arm isn't special enough to get away with that in the pros. Everything needs to be tightened up toward simplicity. He also runs a bit high and slides a half stride too late. That's going to be smackeroo unless he realizes he doesn't need that extra yard.

I have to say I enjoyed the belly laugh that we're not allowed to compare anyone to anyone without first sampling the archives for accurate prior assessments of said player. That's taking insecurity to new Wallenda heights. Nobody is good enough at this for anyone to care or bow. That's the whiff. I'm amazed it is not universally understood. Self touting means squat when it's too simple to remember or research all the flubs. djphinfan is the best guy here in many respects because he does offer all the detailed multifaceted scouting reports like the Wilson example above, with a great track record but not so full of himself. He doesn't run away from mistakes like Dion Jordan or dangle daily based on Twitter review.

BTW, Zach Wilson did defeat three ranked teams...USC in 2019 and Boise State both in 2019 and 2020.

Also BTW, Ourlads shipped the draft guide at record speed this year after I decided late to extend my streak of 44 years of ordering at least one physical book. The cover itself paid for the book. There are action photos of the 5 top quarterback prospects plus Pitts. The photo of Mac Jones' release was so familiar. It took me a few minutes to place it. Chad Pennington. That's it. There was an almost identical photo of Pennington's relaxed over the top mechanics when he was coming out of Marshall. Likewise the photo of Justin Fields was extremely familiar. That one took all of two seconds. Carson Wentz. The photo shows Fields with the very high elbow, and therefore awkward arm angle requiring constant last second adjustment based on type of throw. I started mentioning Wentz' high elbow many years ago and how it screwed up his touch and accuracy. It will be very interesting to see what Frank Reich can do with it. Fields likewise needs a remodeling. I have mentioned that high elbow and crankup delivery and how it impacts his midrange throws. In golf that flying elbow is derisively called a chicken wing.

I'm sorry if it offends your sensibilities but it's a legit point. If I were to say to Pach that Zach Wilson sucks and reminds me of Blaine Gabbert coming out, Pach will turn around and say yeah but didn't you like Blaine Gabbert coming out? And it's true I had him as a 1st rounder. So how the hell am I going to turn around and say another player sucks because he reminds me of a guy I liked?

You've got a lot of people who were lukewarm on Patrick Mahomes saying that Zach Wilson is awesome because he reminds them of Patrick Mahomes. It's a bit disingenuous.
 
I think this is kind of it with Zach Wilson, if he pans out you got lucky. He's a roll of the dice. There's so much you can't really know about him because he had so much time and space to operate behind that BYU offensive line against that schedule they played.

I'd roll the dice though. He's got talent and even though he lost that Coastal Carolina game, I like what he showed at the end of it in a pressure situation.

Said it before he's like a mix of Jared Goff and Drew Lock. Not such a bad thing. Could be really good. Could be bad. Tough to know.

I'd take him over Mac Jones and Trey Lance and Davis Mills because I like what he can do in terms of throwing off platform and off script. But in no way would I bet on him. I'm not confident in him whatsoever.

I've always liked some of the players on that BYU offensive line - and Zach Wilson still just can't beat anybody. He shares a lot of those similarities with Drew Lock in terms of never being able to beat anybody.

Then Lock finally beat Florida towards the end of his 4 years and some of the gaytor fans and Lock homers around here started acting like he just beat the '85 Bears and ignored the other 30 games of the player Drew Lock truly was. I don't think Wilson is anywhere near as good as Jared Goff was.

Zach Wilson plays a frantic game, and better teams magnify that flaw.
 
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It's foolishness to assume I'm lying unless I can prove that I'm telling the truth.

Why would I lie? What do I have to gain? Are you gonna pay me money because I had a high opinion of Patrick Mahomes going all the way back to his first appearance against Oklahoma State in 2014, when he came onto the field in place of Davis Webb and screwed me over on my picking Oklahoma State to cover the spread?

You're just being a dick. And I've got no time for it.
No. I am curious to see the proof. And if I saw it, I'd by all means give kudos. But yeah, you do you.
 
I'm sorry if it offends your sensibilities but it's a legit point. If I were to say to Pach that Zach Wilson sucks and reminds me of Blaine Gabbert coming out, Pach will turn around and say yeah but didn't you like Blaine Gabbert coming out? And it's true I had him as a 1st rounder. So how the hell am I going to turn around and say another player sucks because he reminds me of a guy I liked?

You've got a lot of people who were lukewarm on Patrick Mahomes saying that Zach Wilson is awesome because he reminds them of Patrick Mahomes. It's a bit disingenuous.
Except when you factor in how prototypes in the game evolve over time making it logical to course-correct. If Herbert and Allen turn out great then in the future, college guys that play that way will correctly be viewed as more likely to succeed: that 'type' will have a proven couple of examples. Not saying that's what happened in the Mahomes case, but for Herbert 'types' and Lamar Jackson/Mike Vick types, absolutely...
 
Sure. Go for it!

CK I hope you don’t mind me doing this, but I remember distictly our conversations About Mahomes.

CK below.

“The guy you need to watch now for a year from now? Texas Tech QB Patrick Mahomes. Holy **** what a beast. I'm not sure he's not the best draft eligible quarterback in this draft. ”

Can't believe I'm actually going to start subjecting myself to QB tape this early. But the early early opinion is that I adore Patrick Mahomes...

“If Pat Mahomes comes out and falls out of the 1st round (which I still have a tough time believing but weird stuff happens) then Miami just has to take the guy.”




for Myself on the record. Below is from 2016..

“I have no hesitation on Mahomes, I'd take him # 1 overall if I needed a QB and I had the pick.“

“im on board any scenario that lands Mahomes.”

“biggest joke thus far in this pre draft pundit talk is the absence of hype for one Pat Mahomes..lol..I can only laugh.”


“Instinct and movement by the prospect and the ability to identify those instincts and movement relative to the position is a huge part of winning in this game, highlighting the weaknesses is something that I will do if I'm on the fence of a player..I do understand your criticisms, but I see him deal with your criticisms like progressions naturally even though he's not running a progression system.

Mahomes has an excellent throwing motion and delivery, very smooth and all done in one sweeping motion, its beautiful quite frankly, so any mechanic issues are that of overconfidence, and can be tightened up very easy, but the foundation of a beautiful swing is all right there to see and analyze..the footwork gets lazy because the arm is so good and the brain is so confident.imo.

Mahomes is a junior, lets not forget that

lastly, and something I haven't heard you highlight is, you can't teach what Pat Mahomes can do..He's an elite playmaker at the qb position, his improv skills are the best in the draft by far..and I will always take that foundation of talent and ante up with it when it comes to learning the finer nuances at the next level.”
 
CK I hope you don’t mind me doing this, but I remember distictly our conversations About Mahomes.

CK below.

“The guy you need to watch now for a year from now? Texas Tech QB Patrick Mahomes. Holy **** what a beast. I'm not sure he's not the best draft eligible quarterback in this draft. ”

Can't believe I'm actually going to start subjecting myself to QB tape this early. But the early early opinion is that I adore Patrick Mahomes...

“If Pat Mahomes comes out and falls out of the 1st round (which I still have a tough time believing but weird stuff happens) then Miami just has to take the guy.”




for Myself on the record. Below is from 2016..

“I have no hesitation on Mahomes, I'd take him # 1 overall if I needed a QB and I had the pick.“

“im on board any scenario that lands Mahomes.”

“biggest joke thus far in this pre draft pundit talk is the absence of hype for one Pat Mahomes..lol..I can only laugh.”


“Instinct and movement by the prospect and the ability to identify those instincts and movement relative to the position is a huge part of winning in this game, highlighting the weaknesses is something that I will do if I'm on the fence of a player..I do understand your criticisms, but I see him deal with your criticisms like progressions naturally even though he's not running a progression system.

Mahomes has an excellent throwing motion and delivery, very smooth and all done in one sweeping motion, its beautiful quite frankly, so any mechanic issues are that of overconfidence, and can be tightened up very easy, but the foundation of a beautiful swing is all right there to see and analyze..the footwork gets lazy because the arm is so good and the brain is so confident.imo.

Mahomes is a junior, lets not forget that

lastly, and something I haven't heard you highlight is, you can't teach what Pat Mahomes can do..He's an elite playmaker at the qb position, his improv skills are the best in the draft by far..and I will always take that foundation of talent and ante up with it when it comes to learning the finer nuances at the next level.”
Cool. Thanks. That's great. 😎
 
Beyond looking like an adonis coming off the team bus and having Uncle Rico's arm strength, I just don't see it with Zack Wilson.

I hope the Jets take him.
 
CK I hope you don’t mind me doing this, but I remember distictly our conversations About Mahomes.

CK below.

“The guy you need to watch now for a year from now? Texas Tech QB Patrick Mahomes. Holy **** what a beast. I'm not sure he's not the best draft eligible quarterback in this draft. ”

Can't believe I'm actually going to start subjecting myself to QB tape this early. But the early early opinion is that I adore Patrick Mahomes...

“If Pat Mahomes comes out and falls out of the 1st round (which I still have a tough time believing but weird stuff happens) then Miami just has to take the guy.”




for Myself on the record. Below is from 2016..

“I have no hesitation on Mahomes, I'd take him # 1 overall if I needed a QB and I had the pick.“

“im on board any scenario that lands Mahomes.”

“biggest joke thus far in this pre draft pundit talk is the absence of hype for one Pat Mahomes..lol..I can only laugh.”


“Instinct and movement by the prospect and the ability to identify those instincts and movement relative to the position is a huge part of winning in this game, highlighting the weaknesses is something that I will do if I'm on the fence of a player..I do understand your criticisms, but I see him deal with your criticisms like progressions naturally even though he's not running a progression system.

Mahomes has an excellent throwing motion and delivery, very smooth and all done in one sweeping motion, its beautiful quite frankly, so any mechanic issues are that of overconfidence, and can be tightened up very easy, but the foundation of a beautiful swing is all right there to see and analyze..the footwork gets lazy because the arm is so good and the brain is so confident.imo.

Mahomes is a junior, lets not forget that

lastly, and something I haven't heard you highlight is, you can't teach what Pat Mahomes can do..He's an elite playmaker at the qb position, his improv skills are the best in the draft by far..and I will always take that foundation of talent and ante up with it when it comes to learning the finer nuances at the next level.”

September 25, 2014:


December 15, 2015:


November 11, 2016:


April 18, 2017:


At the end of the 2016 season I had identified the three best college QBs who were good NFL prospects were Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, and Josh Allen. They were arguably three of the five best QBs in the NFL this year.
 
Beyond looking like an adonis coming off the team bus and having Uncle Rico's arm strength, I just don't see it with Zack Wilson.

I hope the Jets take him.

I think they will and if so, if this kid can do what Mahomes did when he came out and find the structure and discipline within his game to start from the inside out, he’s so dam talented i believe we will be not happy he’s a jet..

when I say inside out I mean the game is easy for him, like it was for Mahomes, so if he focuses on his fundamentals first and controls the tempo of his rhythm to execute the easy stuff and learns when the play calls for his improvisational talent to kick in Then he will reach his potential, The talent foundation is sky high imo.

good coaching will do that.
 
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