The Post of Hope (Not what you think) | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Post of Hope (Not what you think)

Marino2.0

Club Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
Messages
252
Reaction score
680
I don't get all the love for Tua. He's unathletic (by today's standards), immobile, slow-footed, has a weaker-than-average arm, has below average pocket awareness, has only showed one game that he's capable (cardinals game he was AWESOME).. please convince me lol but i dont see it at all
I completely disagree with you that Tua has below average pocket awareness. For a 23 year old, I think he has highly advanced pocket awareness. The problem is that our offensive line rarely creates anything resembling a pocket.

As to your other points, at least in my opinion, being relatively unathletic and having below average arm strength isn’t a huge detriment to being an excellent quarterback. Tom Brady is unathletic with below average arm strength. So is Drew Brees. So is Matt Ryan. So were Philip Rivers and Andrew Luck. And though Peyton Manning started with elite arm strength, by the time he was dominating the league in Denver, he could barely get it 50 yards in the air.

Arm strength is nice, don’t get me wrong. So is athleticism. But I’ll take a smart, instinctive, accurate passer over a highly athletic one with a cannon for an arm any day. I’m not saying Tua is going to be an elite QB. We don’t know yet. But physical tools aren’t really that big of a deal at that position. Tua has the accuracy. He has the leadership qualities. He has pocket awareness, and he’s instinctual. The questions are going to be whether he can (a) read defenses well enough to consistently and quickly make the right decision with the ball, and (b) stay in one piece long enough to learn how to do that.

I don’t know what the answers will be. But either way, I don’t see Tua’s career rising or falling with his arm strength. And unless our offensive line can keep him upright and our offensive coordinator can design plays that get guys open, Tua really doesn’t have a chance.
 

mandal24

Genesis
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
2,141
Reaction score
1,347
Oh, no, I read it.
Then you saw, "This is NOT meant to be a knock on Tua. I think he could be solid but he needs a solid foundation around him to succeed and we definitely don't have that."

This post wasn't a knock on Tua but rather a indictment against this Dolphins staff. They've been horrible for 20 years and counting. They won't be able to provide a solid OL for Tua. And as we all know, Tua isn't the type of QB who can succeed if things around him breakdown.
 
Last edited:

mandal24

Genesis
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
2,141
Reaction score
1,347
I completely disagree with you that Tua has below average pocket awareness. For a 23 year old, I think he has highly advanced pocket awareness. The problem is that our offensive line rarely creates anything resembling a pocket.

As to your other points, at least in my opinion, being relatively unathletic and having below average arm strength isn’t a huge detriment to being an excellent quarterback. Tom Brady is unathletic with below average arm strength. So is Drew Brees. So is Matt Ryan. So were Philip Rivers and Andrew Luck. And though Peyton Manning started with elite arm strength, by the time he was dominating the league in Denver, he could barely get it 50 yards in the air.

Arm strength is nice, don’t get me wrong. So is athleticism. But I’ll take a smart, instinctive, accurate passer over a highly athletic one with a cannon for an arm any day. I’m not saying Tua is going to be an elite QB. We don’t know yet. But physical tools aren’t really that big of a deal at that position. Tua has the accuracy. He has the leadership qualities. He has pocket awareness, and he’s instinctual. The questions are going to be whether he can (a) read defenses well enough to consistently and quickly make the right decision with the ball, and (b) stay in one piece long enough to learn how to do that.

I don’t know what the answers will be. But either way, I don’t see Tua’s career rising or falling with his arm strength. And unless our offensive line can keep him upright and our offensive coordinator can design plays that get guys open, Tua really doesn’t have a chance.
Respect your perspective. I guess different of opinion on Tua. Fitzy and more so Brissett have much better pocket presence in my opinion (although Tua is a much better pure QB that Brissett)

Arm talent, again, I see things differently. Brady still has a strong arm at 44, just doesn't need to use it so much because he's insanely, stupidly accurate. Drew Brees is the one guy I definitely agree with you on! The thing about those guys though is they were big, tall back there. They could see over the line. Tua looks so small back there.

Your implication is that Tua is smart, instinctive, accurate passer.. We haven't seen any of that through 4 quarters outside of the Cardinals game. Josh Allen is the highly athletic QB with a cannon (Herbert kind of as well :() - I'd take those physical traits over Tua anyday. We need a guy who can escape from the pocket and throw it on the run. The problem with Tua is that he needs everything to be perfect in order to succeed.
 

Travis34

chea
Moderator
Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
18,798
Reaction score
11,015
Location
NE, Indiana
Then you saw, "This is NOT meant to be a knock on Tua. I think he could be solid but he needs a solid foundation around him to succeed and we definitely don't have that."

This post wasn't a knock on Tua but rather a indictment against this Dolphins staff. They've been horrible for 20 years and counting. They won't be able to provide a solid OL for Tua.
I just feel like even though you are sayings it not meant to be a knock on him, it is. Give him a chance to prove he can be a good qb.

The second part of your post is sure spot on though. We are an inept franchise
 

Marino2.0

Club Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
Messages
252
Reaction score
680
Respect your perspective. I guess different of opinion on Tua. Fitzy and more so Brissett have much better pocket presence in my opinion (although Tua is a much better pure QB that Brissett)

Arm talent, again, I see things differently. Brady still has a strong arm at 44, just doesn't need to use it so much because he's insanely, stupidly accurate. Drew Brees is the one guy I definitely agree with you on! The thing about those guys though is they were big, tall back there. They could see over the line. Tua looks so small back there.

Your implication is that Tua is smart, instinctive, accurate passer.. We haven't seen any of that through 4 quarters outside of the Cardinals game. Josh Allen is the highly athletic QB with a cannon (Herbert kind of as well :() - I'd take those physical traits over Tua anyday. We need a guy who can escape from the pocket and throw it on the run. The problem with Tua is that he needs everything to be perfect in order to succeed.
I don’t actually think we disagree on much. Fitz had better pocket presence for sure, but he was also a 15-year veteran. I think Tua will get better and better in that aspect, and I think he’s got way better pocket presence than most do this early in their career.

And I agree with you that given our current state, we’d be better off with a QB with elite physical traits that can compensate for a lot of flaws with our offense. Guys like Allen can create when there’s nothing there and turn chicken **** into chicken salad by making ridiculous plays. Tua isn’t that guy and never will be.

But I don’t think he needs things to be perfect, either. He’s still very young. He needs to learn. If he can develop his decision-making and ability to read defenses to an elite level, he will be able to cover up for a bad OL—the same way guys like Brady and Brees (and to a much lesser extent, Fitz) do. But that doesn’t happen overnight. He’s just 23. If he ultimately caps out and is still holding the ball too long after a few seasons, he just isn’t going to make it. But I want to give him the few seasons—at least last year and this year and maybe next year, depending on what he shows this year. I just don’t know if this OL will keep him alive that long.
 

mandal24

Genesis
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
2,141
Reaction score
1,347
I don’t actually think we disagree on much. Fitz had better pocket presence for sure, but he was also a 15-year veteran. I think Tua will get better and better in that aspect, and I think he’s got way better pocket presence than most do this early in their career.

And I agree with you that given our current state, we’d be better off with a QB with elite physical traits that can compensate for a lot of flaws with our offense. Guys like Allen can create when there’s nothing there and turn chicken **** into chicken salad by making ridiculous plays. Tua isn’t that guy and never will be.

But I don’t think he needs things to be perfect, either. He’s still very young. He needs to learn. If he can develop his decision-making and ability to read defenses to an elite level, he will be able to cover up for a bad OL—the same way guys like Brady and Brees (and to a much lesser extent, Fitz) do. But that doesn’t happen overnight. He’s just 23. If he ultimately caps out and is still holding the ball too long after a few seasons, he just isn’t going to make it. But I want to give him the few seasons—at least last year and this year and maybe next year, depending on what he shows this year. I just don’t know if this OL will keep him alive that long.
Appreciate the civility -- Yeah, I'm definitely going to be rooting for Tua for the rest of the year. Perhaps this time away was good for him in the long run as we finally got Jackson out of the LT spot and our OL improved (slightly?) and hey, a game against the worst defense in the Jags is a nice way to start some momentum
 

Mindtornado

Support Our QB
Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
1,678
Reaction score
3,102
Location
Almost Heaven
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think Tua could be the guy. Not disagreeing that he needs help, though.

Was watching part of the GB game and Rodgers is obviously amazing. But he also had a lot of time to throw. To look for second and third options. I mentioned Rodgers specifically because he's been mentioned as a potential option by the fan base.

I'm not sure there's a quarterback who would have success behind this line.


I hope he is too. But the more I think about it, have a problem that he wasnt chosen to be a captain.
 

SF Dolphin Fan

Seasoned Veteran
Club Member
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
15,923
Reaction score
11,903
I hope he is too. But the more I think about it, have a problem that he wasnt chosen to be a captain.
Maybe, but leadership was always considered a plus for him. Can't remember if Marino was team captain year two???
 
Top Bottom