The Quarterback Debate, Whose #3? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Quarterback Debate, Whose #3?

phins_4_ever said:
See this is what I don't understand. Tua may not be the 1st QB selected. I could see the Bengals picking Burrow. Even at 6-10 which could bring us as high as 7 in the draft order Tua is not out of reach. It depends on who is ahead of us. If we pick at 8 and Bengals, Redskins, Browns, Jets, Giants, Arizona are ahead of us either Tua or Burrow could fall all the way to 7 (depending on the Bengals).
Right now we are 4. If that would stay this way and Bengals pick Burrow then Tua is still a possibility. Neither Washington nor the Giants will spend their top pick on a QB. They'll give Haskins and Jones a full year next year.
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You're forgetting that teams move up every year. 2020 will be no different.
 
Herbert is has moved clear in 3rd for me. Still Tua #1, Burrow now a close 2nd. That physical toolset, is just too tempting and he's been hitting more than missing in recent weeks, if we can't get Tua, I would be excited to take a chance on him.

Still don't get this Fromm love in, he's been playing behind a stellar line his entire career, has probably the best or 2nd best LT (that freshman at Oregon is insanely good) in College, has the smallest shoulders I've ever seen in a grown man, not to mention his child like hands, lacks any kind of wow factor, for a small man he's not really that elusive. The SC game showed all the reasons why you shouldn't draft him if you don't have perfect line play, under pressure he doesn't impress. I think he's a horrible fit for any team in transition, his football IQ may appeal to those teams looking to add that final piece at QB that can protect him but that's not us and a reason why I would rather we stay clear.

Eason I think has failed to grasp this season of opportunity like he appeared to have at the start of it. His play has been way too inconsistent in a conference that's not dominated by brilliant defensive play. I'm not sure I would take a chance on him unless we use a throwaway kind of pick like we did with Rosen last year.

I have no idea what to make of Love, it's all about the upside though with him, difficult to justify a first rounder for him but in the 2nd you take a chance and not even think about it.
 
Geordie said:
Still don't get this Fromm love in, he's been playing behind a stellar line his entire career, has probably the best or 2nd best LT (that freshman at Oregon is insanely good) in College, has the smallest shoulders I've ever seen in a grown man, not to mention his child like hands, lacks any kind of wow factor, for a small man he's not really that elusive. The SC game showed all the reasons why you shouldn't draft him if you don't have perfect line play, under pressure he doesn't impress. I think he's a horrible fit for any team in transition, his football IQ may appeal to those teams looking to add that final piece at QB that can protect him but that's not us and a reason why I would rather we stay clear.
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Jeez. Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel. LOL.

He does have a strong offensive line. I just don't see how that's a particularly bad thing. If anything it helps a player to develop the right habits. Patrick Mahomes's offensive line at Texas Tech saw him developing habits that he needed a full year in the lab, away from a real game field, in order to break.

I don't think you have to have a sh-tty offensive line in order to see how a guy handles pressure.




As for his hands, that's going to be a question until he measures at the Senior Bowl/Combine, unfortunately. The problem is he measured 8.75 inches as an All Star game back in high school. But hands do grow when you go from 17 years old to 21 years old. I do recall lots of whispers that Baker Mayfield's hands would measure below 9 inches, and then he measured 9.25 inches at the Combine.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Tua

Herbert, Burrow, Fromm

Not much separating the second tier, but I think it highlights what I've been saying all offseason and through this season. The OC/playcaller is just as important as the QB.
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Pretty much...

I refer to it as QB situation and how that leads to a player's long term success.

One of the biggest reasons many of the number 1 QBs never pan out is they end up in horrible situations. Poor Coaching, rushing the player to carry the team and failing to build around that QB early to give them some early success and confidence.
 
I like Fromm, probably for the same reason I like Tua rather than Burrow or Herbert; I'm just done with the 'prototypical physical specimen' and cringe whenever anyone mentions size and arm strength. Teams that fixate on that are often ones who end up making massive mistakes on draft day. As a result that probably means I put more value on intelligence and the ability to handle pressure and read progressions, but I'd rather have a smart guy than a big guy.
 
ckparrothead said:
Jeez. Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel. LOL.

He does have a strong offensive line. I just don't see how that's a particularly bad thing. If anything it helps a player to develop the right habits. Patrick Mahomes's offensive line at Texas Tech saw him developing habits that he needed a full year in the lab, away from a real game field, in order to break.

I don't think you have to have a sh-tty offensive line in order to see how a guy handles pressure.




As for his hands, that's going to be a question until he measures at the Senior Bowl/Combine, unfortunately. The problem is he measured 8.75 inches as an All Star game back in high school. But hands do grow when you go from 17 years old to 21 years old. I do recall lots of whispers that Baker Mayfield's hands would measure below 9 inches, and then he measured 9.25 inches at the Combine.
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Hehe, you like my sitting on the fence here ? :p

I agree with the premise here that you shouldn't look at the OLine greatness as a bad thing, but when it to me at least masks his issues, that's when you need to take it into account how little pressure he is generally under and how much time he has to throw the ball. Two games this season highlighted it for me, first the SC game where his line for once really struggled, he couldn't generate anything, it wasn't just the three ints he threw up but his general stewardness of that offense was terrible in that game. Then the Florida game, his line was awesome, my gators couldn't get near him even with our two best pass rushers back from injury, in 30 throws we managed 2 pressures ! In game it was picked up by the CBS folks and they put a timer on how long he had to throw it, 5 plus seconds on average ! Georgia won the game, and Fromm was efficient, converted a lot of 3rd downs but really it wasn't that impressive if you break it down a little.

I'm really pissed off with Fromm, because prior to that SC game, I was willing to take off my Gators Blinkers and gave the kid a chance, he was probably my #3 guy going into that, but shitting the bed like he did just highlighted the reasons why I just don't like him. Just think he's a horrible fit for our team, understand the attraction of a smart game manager type QB but with the quality of player we currently have on the line (and I know it will get better but it's not going to be an overnight transformation) it makes picking a QB who relies on good Oline play and doesn't do enough to demonstrate he can extend plays, folly.

I'm really not that bothered about the size of his hands, made that comment for effect, I am more worried though about his overall frame, like I said my 4 year old has bigger shoulders than this guy ! He's not elusive enough to protect that slight frame in my view, unlike Kyler or Tua or other QB's of smaller stature. Again his line has protected him over the years so he's not been asked that questions a lot.

To counter all that, Eason is at Washington and Fields is at Ohio State now, partly perhaps because they couldn't beat this kid out. Wonder if when he gets his grades, he goes back for his senior year, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. If he does declare and is still around come the 3rd or 4th round, I think he has value to the fins, but I doubt he will be.
 
No offense but when you say that he threw up 3 INTs against South Carolina, I think that belies a little bit of careless accounting and it makes me question the basis for some of the generalizations you're making about him.

He threw A pick against South Carolina, for sure. He was pressured and he backed up and then threw an ill-fated ball to a receiver on a comeback even though the defensive back was sitting on the route and jumped it.

But the other two picks were not his fault. A freshman wide receiver ran the wrong route, literally zigged when he needed to zag, and that was how the ball got picked off. It was timing, nothing Fromm could've done other than just decide he's not going to throw to a freshman.

And the third pick hilariously hit his intended receiver right on the face mask it was so well thrown. The receiver popped it up and it was picked off.

That ONE pick he threw against South Carolina...is literally the only pick he's thrown this year, that he earned. Accounting matters. Details matter.
 
Geordie said:
Hehe, you like my sitting on the fence here ? :p

I agree with the premise here that you shouldn't look at the OLine greatness as a bad thing, but when it to me at least masks his issues, that's when you need to take it into account how little pressure he is generally under and how much time he has to throw the ball. Two games this season highlighted it for me, first the SC game where his line for once really struggled, he couldn't generate anything, it wasn't just the three ints he threw up but his general stewardness of that offense was terrible in that game. Then the Florida game, his line was awesome, my gators couldn't get near him even with our two best pass rushers back from injury, in 30 throws we managed 2 pressures ! In game it was picked up by the CBS folks and they put a timer on how long he had to throw it, 5 plus seconds on average ! Georgia won the game, and Fromm was efficient, converted a lot of 3rd downs but really it wasn't that impressive if you break it down a little.

I'm really pissed off with Fromm, because prior to that SC game, I was willing to take off my Gators Blinkers and gave the kid a chance, he was probably my #3 guy going into that, but ****ting the bed like he did just highlighted the reasons why I just don't like him. Just think he's a horrible fit for our team, understand the attraction of a smart game manager type QB but with the quality of player we currently have on the line (and I know it will get better but it's not going to be an overnight transformation) it makes picking a QB who relies on good Oline play and doesn't do enough to demonstrate he can extend plays, folly.

I'm really not that bothered about the size of his hands, made that comment for effect, I am more worried though about his overall frame, like I said my 4 year old has bigger shoulders than this guy ! He's not elusive enough to protect that slight frame in my view, unlike Kyler or Tua or other QB's of smaller stature. Again his line has protected him over the years so he's not been asked that questions a lot.

To counter all that, Eason is at Washington and Fields is at Ohio State now, partly perhaps because they couldn't beat this kid out. Wonder if when he gets his grades, he goes back for his senior year, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. If he does declare and is still around come the 3rd or 4th round, I think he has value to the fins, but I doubt he will be.
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The OL is very important, but it's not as important as the OC/playcaller, and Fromm is hurt more by the playcalling than helped by the OL imo.
 
Fromm hands down. Give me brains and accuracy over all the physical traits in the world when evaluating a QB. I don’t understand the love for Herbert. His numbers are deceiving. I will be very surprised if he is ever a decent nfl QB. I have watched many of his games and every time I’m thinking what is it that ppl see in this guy that makes him a top prospect
 
Geordie said:
And which team has the most capital to move up ?
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Where did I say otherwise?

The post I quoted is making the assumption that there is only one QB needy team ahead of us right now, and ignoring the fact that ANY team can move up -- Dolphins or any other.

The implication that Tua or Burrow can fall all the way to the 8th pick is laughable. That's all I was pointing out.

Of course we have the capital.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
The OL is very important, but it's not as important as the OC/playcaller, and Fromm is hurt more by the playcalling than helped by the OL imo.
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I kind of disagree, I think it's the opposite at Georgia, he not asked to do a lot for a reason. The staff there know his limitations and call conservative games because of that.
 
ckparrothead said:
No offense but when you say that he threw up 3 INTs against South Carolina, I think that belies a little bit of careless accounting and it makes me question the basis for some of the generalizations you're making about him.

He threw A pick against South Carolina, for sure. He was pressured and he backed up and then threw an ill-fated ball to a receiver on a comeback even though the defensive back was sitting on the route and jumped it.

But the other two picks were not his fault. A freshman wide receiver ran the wrong route, literally zigged when he needed to zag, and that was how the ball got picked off. It was timing, nothing Fromm could've done other than just decide he's not going to throw to a freshman.

And the third pick hilariously hit his intended receiver right on the face mask it was so well thrown. The receiver popped it up and it was picked off.

That ONE pick he threw against South Carolina...is literally the only pick he's thrown this year, that he earned. Accounting matters. Details matter.
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No offense CK but you obviously didn't watch the whole game against SC, it wasn't just the 3 picks that were bad about that performance. I sat there excited to see what he could do and watched just to evaluate him in the hope that people like yourself whom I respect way more than my own evaluation skills have been right all along about him and I've just been Gator biased. But all I saw was a run of the mill QB, getting pressured for what appeared the first time, unable to make good decisions, motivate his offense, put a team on his back to win an important game against a very average opponent. These leadership, football IQ skills that folks keep mentioned were not on display at all that day.
 
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