The Quarterback Debate, Whose #3? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Quarterback Debate, Whose #3?

Geordie said:
No offense CK but you obviously didn't watch the whole game against SC, it wasn't just the 3 picks that were bad about that performance. I sat there excited to see what he could do and watched just to evaluate him in the hope that people like yourself whom I respect way more than my own evaluation skills have been right all along about him and I've just been Gator biased. But all I saw was a run of the mill QB, getting pressured for what appeared the first time, unable to make good decisions, motivate his offense, put a team on his back to win an important game against a very average opponent. These leadership, football IQ skills that folks keep mentioned were not on display at all that day.
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I did watch the entire game. I guarantee I've watched that game more times than you have. I just think that whenever someone brings up to me that Jake Fromm threw 3 INTs against South Carolina, implying that South Carolina's pressure or their defense got him to fall apart and throw 3 picks, they're telling on themselves. It's happened quite a few times and it always means people are being careless in the way they account and form their opinions.
 
I talked about this a while back in regards to Fromm, but what you have to pay attention to is the drastic difference in the way he plays against zone coverage vs. man coverage, and what it illustrates. It points to the archaic design of the offense he's stuck in.

Fromm excels against zone coverage where he's required to find the weak spots and utilize his ability to rapidly and seamlessly get through his progressions. Against teams that play a lot of man coverage, his effectiveness plummets. However, it's not really because of Fromm - it's because of the lack of man beater concepts they tend to run against man coverage, and the lack of difference makers at the receiver positions.

His effectiveness suddenly jumps back up again against man coverage when the OC wakes up and utilizes some man beater concepts - stacks, switch releases, rubs, etc. Rather than just running into the coverage manned up across the formation. You give your quarterback somewhere to throw the football when you employ these concepts and allow the receivers to leverage DB's and run away from it. UGA doesn't feature any RPO's or anything designed to target a specific second level defender and make him commit to one or the other. Fromm is forced to beat defenses the old fashioned way.
 
Something I havent seen discussed much is Fromm or/and Love going back to school. Both probably feel like they have something to prove and this QB class is pretty heavy. Especially if say Georgia loses to Auburn or LSU in the SEC championship game. Could opt to stay and compete against Lawrence next year.
 
Geordie said:
I kind of disagree, I think it's the opposite at Georgia, he not asked to do a lot for a reason. The staff there know his limitations and call conservative games because of that.
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I mentioned it in another thread, but almost all of Burrow's throws vs Alabama were relatively easy, and Fromm could make any of them. Before 2019, Burrow was in a similar offense to Fromm (relative to what he's in now), and he was MUCH worse than Fromm. I don't think you're connecting the dots.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I talked about this a while back in regards to Fromm, but what you have to pay attention to is the drastic difference in the way he plays against zone coverage vs. man coverage, and what it illustrates. It points to the archaic design of the offense he's stuck in.

Fromm excels against zone coverage where he's required to find the weak spots and utilize his ability to rapidly and seamlessly get through his progressions. Against teams that play a lot of man coverage, his effectiveness plummets. However, it's not really because of Fromm - it's because of the lack of man beater concepts they tend to run against man coverage, and the lack of difference makers at the receiver positions.

His effectiveness suddenly jumps back up again against man coverage when the OC wakes up and utilizes some man beater concepts - stacks, switch releases, rubs, etc. Rather than just running into the coverage manned up across the formation. You give your quarterback somewhere to throw the football when you employ these concepts and allow the receivers to leverage DB's and run away from it. UGA doesn't feature any RPO's or anything designed to target a specific second level defender and make him commit to one or the other. Fromm is forced to beat defenses the old fashioned way.
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For all that he does a good job actually signaling players to set picks against man. Doing the best he can with what he's got to work with.
 
Rowdy1972 said:
Something I havent seen discussed much is Fromm or/and Love going back to school. Both probably feel like they have something to prove and this QB class is pretty heavy. Especially if say Georgia loses to Auburn or LSU in the SEC championship game. Could opt to stay and compete against Lawrence next year.
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It's interesting because I mentioned at the beginning of the season that I had heard through a chain of high school coaches here in Alabama that Fromm wasn't planning to enter the draft this year. I think reading between the lines what that really meant was, he wasn't planning to enter the draft this year unless he just had an outstanding season.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
It's interesting because I mentioned at the beginning of the season that I had heard through a chain of high school coaches here in Alabama that Fromm wasn't planning to enter the draft this year. I think reading between the lines what that really meant was, he wasn't planning to enter the draft this year unless he just had an outstanding season.
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As it stands now, he would be entering as with his stock at its lowest throughout his career at Georgia. After the first half of that national championship game, I was thinking this kid has first overall material. If I was in his ear, I would tell him to stay unless he has some really impressive games coming up.
 
I don't want anyone without great touch. That was increasingly evident during my recent trip. That Steelers stadium is quite vertical. For the Canes game I had relatively normal seating. But for Dolphins/Steelers I was very high, perhaps the highest I've ever been for a football game.

Amazing perspective, even if I could barely make out the numbers at times. Fitzpatrick broke free several times while loitering just behind the line of scrimmage. That play is increasingly prevalent in football right now. There were opportunities galore, if only Fitzpatrick sensed them. Dolphin receivers were in ideal position to get to a lofted pass, in areas the defensive back couldn't reach at all.

But since Fitzpatrick is a line drive type, he never even contemplated those touch throws. They don't exist in his repertoire. Consequently every broken play was boring. It was only going to be a flailing line drive. Tannehill had basically the same flaw. So limiting.

Contrast to Russell Wilson on Monday night, with the impromptu lob into the end zone for a touchdown. Even the lobbed interception in overtime was the correct choice, merely thrown a foot too short.

Herbert is a line drive type. I don't see how he becomes extra special. Jordan Love even though he is struggling right now is starting to make the finesse throws. The one pass to he made against Air Force early third quarter was that type of wow rainbow I'm talking about.
 
Agree with you about touch throws... but you can teach a guy with a fastball to throw them... while it is all but impossible to teach a junk baller to develop the rocket ball.

This is why I will always defer to the tall QB with an NFL arm... the other guy is limited.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I don't want anyone without great touch. That was increasingly evident during my recent trip. That Steelers stadium is quite vertical. For the Canes game I had relatively normal seating. But for Dolphins/Steelers I was very high, perhaps the highest I've ever been for a football game.

Amazing perspective, even if I could barely make out the numbers at times. Fitzpatrick broke free several times while loitering just behind the line of scrimmage. That play is increasingly prevalent in football right now. There were opportunities galore, if only Fitzpatrick sensed them. Dolphin receivers were in ideal position to get to a lofted pass, in areas the defensive back couldn't reach at all.

But since Fitzpatrick is a line drive type, he never even contemplated those touch throws. They don't exist in his repertoire. Consequently every broken play was boring. It was only going to be a flailing line drive. Tannehill had basically the same flaw. So limiting.

Contrast to Russell Wilson on Monday night, with the impromptu lob into the end zone for a touchdown. Even the lobbed interception in overtime was the correct choice, merely thrown a foot too short.

Herbert is a line drive type. I don't see how he becomes extra special. Jordan Love even though he is struggling right now is starting to make the finesse throws. The one pass to he made against Air Force early third quarter was that type of wow rainbow I'm talking about.
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ckparrothead said:
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Beautiful throw!

I can’t wait for the SEC champion game. Burrow vs Fromm! Anyone talking up Fromm needs to watch because Fromm is about to get exposed for the garbage QB that he is. No way he keeps up with Burrow! LSU defense is going to trash Fromm. I’m not a Tua fan but it will show how good Tua is and especially considering that Tua wasn’t near 100%. Most people with a tight rope are in a boot for 6 weeks.
 
Rowdy1972 said:
As it stands now, he would be entering as with his stock at its lowest throughout his career at Georgia. After the first half of that national championship game, I was thinking this kid has first overall material. If I was in his ear, I would tell him to stay unless he has some really impressive games coming up.
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I think he goes back too unless he wins the national champ this year. Just strikes me as a college guy, who would like to play in the NFL but wants to win the big onefor a coach who is obviously his biggest fan.

I think Love probably declares though, it's a coin flip but if he weighs up the risk of his stock dropping even more stuck in that horrible team, the chance of injury and the fact that although he's not had a great year, he's still seen as a potential 1st rounder
 
ckparrothead said:
I did watch the entire game. I guarantee I've watched that game more times than you have. I just think that whenever someone brings up to me that Jake Fromm threw 3 INTs against South Carolina, implying that South Carolina's pressure or their defense got him to fall apart and throw 3 picks, they're telling on themselves. It's happened quite a few times and it always means people are being careless in the way they account and form their opinions.
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You obviously didn't read either of my previous posts then because twice I mentioned that it WASN"T just because of his 3 Ints that he sucked against SC.
 
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