The Real Alex Smith

[Steve S]

Don't believe the hype. Those present at Alex Smith's workout certainly didn't. Sure the former Utah quarterback looked good in working out in front of numerous scouts and personnel men on March 16. But his performance was nowhere near as good as the agents who leaked the workout "information" would have you believe. Smith's receivers at the workout were told not to run full speed and he worked almost exclusively out of the shotgun. "He sure looked clumsy taking the snap from under center," one scout revealed.
-- New York Post

Gotta consider the source here. The NY Post has some of the laziest, biased and dead wrong sports guys in the business such as Serby, Cannizarro, George King and Joel Sherman.

The guy who wrote this article, Ken Palmer, is not too bright either, so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in this article or opinion at all.

Among Palmer's more recent items in his columns are:

"Miami is definitely going to bring in Ron Dayne to compete for a starting job next year"

Sure, Ken. Good call.

"Denver will be actively looking for a running back."

Ever heard of Tatum Bell, Ken? They also have Mike Anderson and Reuben Droughns under contract.


"Don't be surprised if a team trades up to number one spot for Ronnie Brown"

Where does he get this stuff? Every indication is that the 49ers want Rodgers and won't be able to trade down much to get him. Which team is going to give up high draft picks to move to number one to pick Brown when there's plenty of backs in this draft. All of the teams that need a back like Tampa, Miami and the Bears are in prime position anyway to get one of the backs.

 

[infiltrateib]

No, Saban was there personally.

Sorry, I misspoke. I know he was there--I saw the handshake picture. I meant it in the sense of "he'll make his own judgments."

 

[BlueFin]

You really have to question this article. Why would Smith work almost exclusivly out of the shotgun? That is the knock on him-so he would want to show more under center. Also, don't you think that it would do more harm than good to have the WR run less than full speed-the scouts would be able to tell, besides these WR are working on their own draft stock. Do you really think that they would want to go less than full speed? They would only be hurting their stock.

I may be wrong, but this article seems a bit off to me.

You almost get the feeling this writer was snubbed for an interview or something like that and he's taking his revenge with unnamed sources who don't exist and knowing he doesn't have to provide them.

As I said, Gil Brandt and others completely contradict this writer who is one person who was not there.

Maybe this is propaganda being put out for someone who hopes he falls to them.....who knows? But as it stands, its uncredible.

 

[Phishstix]

Gotta consider the source here. The NY Post has some of the laziest, biased and dead wrong sports guys in the business such as Serby, Cannizarro, George King and Joel Sherman.

The guy who wrote this article, Ken Palmer, is not too bright either, so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in this article or opinion at all.

Among Palmer's more recent items in his columns are:

"Miami is definitely going to bring in Ron Dayne to compete for a starting job next year"

Sure, Ken. Good call.

"Denver will be actively looking for a running back."

Ever heard of Tatum Bell, Ken? They also have Mike Anderson and Reuben Droughns under contract.


"Don't be surprised if a team trades up to number one spot for Ronnie Brown"

Where does he get this stuff? Every indication is that the 49ers want Rodgers and won't be able to trade down much to get him. Which team is going to give up high draft picks to move to number one to pick Brown when there's plenty of backs in this draft. All of the teams that need a back like Tampa, Miami and the Bears are in prime position anyway to get one of the backs.

exactly, the new york post sports dept. is nothing but a bunch of hacks that sensationalize everything. have a grain of salt ready for anything they print.

 

[PhinBeck]

See this thead from yesterday. Same issue and throughly shot down

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=71867

Only cause you agree. Sorry but the idea that this is shot down is funny. No teh issues are out there. If Saban drafts Smith, doesnt mean the issues arent issues, it means Saban believes those can be worked out and wont hinder him from being great. Which is possible. Blue says he trusts Saban, so do I, does that mean if Saban doesnt draft him that the concerns were real? How exactly was the NFL personnel mens concerns shot down and proven false by fans who are not in teh loop and who have not seen teh kid play 1 down? Hardy shot down, not in any way.

Brandt, why is he a god now? Ron Wolf is considered widely respected for his qb evaluations and he said he likes what he see in Feeley, yet that was said to be bogus? why? because fans didnt agree, as if teh fans opinions were somehow more valid than a recognized expert. Kosar is considered a very intelligent person, he sees something in AJ yet he is dicredited because some dont want to hear it. So why should Brandt's opinion be taken as gospel? Sorry I am not saying he is wrong, he may be right, but that certainly doesnt discount the concerns raised about Smith. No matter how much anyone disagrees.


Now this is my feeling on Smith and why I dont want to draft him. Blue and others can testify that the concerns raised by some personnel men who obviously have a smidgen of crdibility since some teams actually value their opinion, I had teh same concerns. I raided those concerns over numerous threads. So hearing teh reports, further escalates teh concerns in my eyes. I do think Smith will be a very good qb, he has the intelligence and teh intangibles. I just am not sold he will be elite, outs are critical in teh NFL as I learbned from watching Jay play. Sorry but Jay is a smart qb, he just was limited physically. defenses knew it and schemed for it, forcing Jay to throw to his weaknesses, thus causing teh mistakes. That is why he was so effective with Ricky that firt year til teh thumb injury, defenses couldnt take away teh posts and teh seems that Jay hit well. After teh thumb well he couldnteven throw teh deep post well. There are certain passes that every qb has to make each game that have to have teh zip on it to get it there, dbs can close so fast if it isnt zipped in, teh dbs will recover and pick it off. That haoppened to Jay alot. I alway defended jay saying that with Ricky and teh right personnel, that we could avoid putting Jay in a position of havoing to play to his weakness. Well that is where I was wrong, that is where teh danger exists with AJ. That is what I see with Smith. Smith may be smart, but may havbe no say in it because the defense will take that say away and force him into situations that play to his weaknesses. Aj weakness? Pressure in his face. Is it correctable? to some degree, yes. He showed some better composure at the end of last year, he needs to show more. Quicker recognition, finding teh outlet guy with a defender in his face. If he can do that, he will succeed. But anyway that is teh concern with Smith, his intelligence can not fully compensate if he cnt get the drop back, get set quickly and mechanicly correct and make the outs and teh deep ball with any zip on it. That is all required, he is a longer project IMO because of it, and a qb that will no be ready fro 3 years is not worth teh #2 pick IMO.

So far, nothing has been shot down rgarding teh concerns for Smith, if Saban takes him, to me, it says that Saban doesnt think teh concerns will hamper him, not that they arent concerns, but that they arent sign enough to say he isnt worth the pick. But Saban has to say that and he hasnt. What he says to teh press and what he does on draft day are 2 diff things possibly.

Oh and this comment came from more than one writer.

 

[chdoyle]

This article is a joke.

As Gil Brandt put it quote "I've been coming to private workouts for decades, but this is the first time I can remember a player receiving a standing ovation from his audience."

Is he lying? Did he get the player mixed up with someone else?

I doubt the professionals present at the workout were ones given to handing out standing ovations on a regular basis.

 

[THOMAS_54]

Another reason why we should draft Ronnie Brown.:D

 

[PhinBeck]

This article is a joke.

As Gil Brandt put it quote "I've been coming to private workouts for decades, but this is the first time I can remember a player receiving a standing ovation from his audience."

Is he lying? Did he get the player mixed up with someone else?

I doubt the professionals present at the workout were ones given to handing out standing ovations on a regular basis.

Yeah the NFC teams personnel men that made teh same comment obviously do not know as much as teh posters on this board who have fallen in love with Smith Right? GBN posted this. (KB posted a link a couple days after the workout quoting this yet none of teh Smith supporter tried to discredit that, wonder why?). Just because you dont like it, doesnt make it not real. I admit Saban's comments have me thinking he likes him, how much we will find out April 23rd. I am not gaga over it, but will give him teh benefit of teh doubt. Given my concerns, hearing Saban say what he did, doesnt overhelm me with joy. But I do not believe I know as much as Saban does, so I revert to his decision.

Oh in the GBN article, one personnel man said teh standing ovation report was blown out of proportion, they had been all standing throughout teh whole workout, they never sat down and it is customary to applaud after a workout.

 

[BlueFin]

Only cause you agree. Sorry but the idea that this is shot down is funny. No teh issues are out there. If Saban drafts Smith, doesnt mean the issues arent issues, it means Saban believes those can be worked out and wont hinder him from being great. Which is possible. Blue says he trusts Saban, so do I, does that mean if Saban doesnt draft him that the concerns were real? How exactly was the NFL personnel mens concerns shot down and proven false by fans who are not in teh loop and who have not seen teh kid play 1 down? Hardy shot down, not in any way.

Brandt, why is he a god now? Ron Wolf is considered widely respected for his qb evaluations and he said he likes what he see in Feeley, yet that was said to be bogus? why? because fans didnt agree, as if teh fans opinions were somehow more valid than a recognized expert. Kosar is considered a very intelligent person, he sees something in AJ yet he is dicredited because some dont want to hear it. So why should Brandt's opinion be taken as gospel? Sorry I am not saying he is wrong, he may be right, but that certainly doesnt discount the concerns raised about Smith. No matter how much anyone disagrees.


Now this is my feeling on Smith and why I dont want to draft him. Blue and others can testify that the concerns raised by some personnel men who obviously have a smidgen of crdibility since some teams actually value their opinion, I had teh same concerns. I raided those concerns over numerous threads. So hearing teh reports, further escalates teh concerns in my eyes. I do think Smith will be a very good qb, he has the intelligence and teh intangibles. I just am not sold he will be elite, outs are critical in teh NFL as I learbned from watching Jay play. Sorry but Jay is a smart qb, he just was limited physically. defenses knew it and schemed for it, forcing Jay to throw to his weaknesses, thus causing teh mistakes. That is why he was so effective with Ricky that firt year til teh thumb injury, defenses couldnt take away teh posts and teh seems that Jay hit well. After teh thumb well he couldnteven throw teh deep post well. There are certain passes that every qb has to make each game that have to have teh zip on it to get it there, dbs can close so fast if it isnt zipped in, teh dbs will recover and pick it off. That haoppened to Jay alot. I alway defended jay saying that with Ricky and teh right personnel, that we could avoid putting Jay in a position of havoing to play to his weakness. Well that is where I was wrong, that is where teh danger exists with AJ. That is what I see with Smith. Smith may be smart, but may havbe no say in it because the defense will take that say away and force him into situations that play to his weaknesses. Aj weakness? Pressure in his face. Is it correctable? to some degree, yes. He showed some better composure at the end of last year, he needs to show more. Quicker recognition, finding teh outlet guy with a defender in his face. If he can do that, he will succeed. But anyway that is teh concern with Smith, his intelligence can not fully compensate if he cnt get the drop back, get set quickly and mechanicly correct and make the outs and teh deep ball with any zip on it. That is all required, he is a longer project IMO because of it, and a qb that will no be ready fro 3 years is not worth teh #2 pick IMO.

So far, nothing has been shot down rgarding teh concerns for Smith, if Saban takes him, to me, it says that Saban doesnt think teh concerns will hamper him, not that they arent concerns, but that they arent sign enough to say he isnt worth the pick. But Saban has to say that and he hasnt. What he says to teh press and what he does on draft day are 2 diff things possibly.

Oh and this comment came from more than one writer.

My problem is this Runsover, this is the only article, post Workout, that makes these charges against Smith. Everything else I read in review of his workout was glowing, I would love to read others if you can provide a link.

Second, the writer quotes unnamed sources, which means he could have pulled them out of the air.

None of us know his agenda, but the facts are he is one writer who was not there and we have no named sources that support his claims.

Is Gil Brandt a god.....no, has he been scouting players since the 60's...yes, and he is the father of modern scouting, the Cowboys under his direction were light years ahead of other clubs in scouting.

The thing is, your right about what the Pre-workout concerns were regarding Smith, but according to everyone that has gone on record that was personally there, he answered them all.

This writer is not a credible source in and of himself.

 

[Fins 34 Bills 3]

My point exactly he would do whats best for the Dolphins. I don't get what you are trying to say. :confused:

With all due respect, Yahshua (Jesus) would do what is best for any of HIS children. That said, winning is not always the best thing, and in that case the dolphins players may be humbled through losing. Best in HIS eyes is not always best in our eyes. He sees the eternal perspective of the soul, we mainly focus only on the here and now..."For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8)

Be blessed brother.

 

[Celtkin]

Only cause you agree. Sorry but the idea that this is shot down is funny. No teh issues are out there. If Saban drafts Smith, doesnt mean the issues arent issues, it means Saban believes those can be worked out and wont hinder him from being great. Which is possible. Blue says he trusts Saban, so do I, does that mean if Saban doesnt draft him that the concerns were real? How exactly was the NFL personnel mens concerns shot down and proven false by fans who are not in teh loop and who have not seen teh kid play 1 down? Hardy shot down, not in any way.

Brandt, why is he a god now? Ron Wolf is considered widely respected for his qb evaluations and he said he likes what he see in Feeley, yet that was said to be bogus? why? because fans didnt agree, as if teh fans opinions were somehow more valid than a recognized expert. Kosar is considered a very intelligent person, he sees something in AJ yet he is dicredited because some dont want to hear it. So why should Brandt's opinion be taken as gospel? Sorry I am not saying he is wrong, he may be right, but that certainly doesnt discount the concerns raised about Smith. No matter how much anyone disagrees.


Now this is my feeling on Smith and why I dont want to draft him. Blue and others can testify that the concerns raised by some personnel men who obviously have a smidgen of crdibility since some teams actually value their opinion, I had teh same concerns. I raided those concerns over numerous threads. So hearing teh reports, further escalates teh concerns in my eyes. I do think Smith will be a very good qb, he has the intelligence and teh intangibles. I just am not sold he will be elite, outs are critical in teh NFL as I learbned from watching Jay play. Sorry but Jay is a smart qb, he just was limited physically. defenses knew it and schemed for it, forcing Jay to throw to his weaknesses, thus causing teh mistakes. That is why he was so effective with Ricky that firt year til teh thumb injury, defenses couldnt take away teh posts and teh seems that Jay hit well. After teh thumb well he couldnteven throw teh deep post well. There are certain passes that every qb has to make each game that have to have teh zip on it to get it there, dbs can close so fast if it isnt zipped in, teh dbs will recover and pick it off. That haoppened to Jay alot. I alway defended jay saying that with Ricky and teh right personnel, that we could avoid putting Jay in a position of havoing to play to his weakness. Well that is where I was wrong, that is where teh danger exists with AJ. That is what I see with Smith. Smith may be smart, but may havbe no say in it because the defense will take that say away and force him into situations that play to his weaknesses. Aj weakness? Pressure in his face. Is it correctable? to some degree, yes. He showed some better composure at the end of last year, he needs to show more. Quicker recognition, finding teh outlet guy with a defender in his face. If he can do that, he will succeed. But anyway that is teh concern with Smith, his intelligence can not fully compensate if he cnt get the drop back, get set quickly and mechanicly correct and make the outs and teh deep ball with any zip on it. That is all required, he is a longer project IMO because of it, and a qb that will no be ready fro 3 years is not worth teh #2 pick IMO.

So far, nothing has been shot down rgarding teh concerns for Smith, if Saban takes him, to me, it says that Saban doesnt think teh concerns will hamper him, not that they arent concerns, but that they arent sign enough to say he isnt worth the pick. But Saban has to say that and he hasnt. What he says to teh press and what he does on draft day are 2 diff things possibly.

Oh and this comment came from more than one writer.

I stand by my opinion that the writers who are named, including Brandt, reported something different from what the unnamed sources reported. Call me crazy, but I put greater credibility in those reported from the scene that those who did not and remained unnamed. I saw nothing in your argument that proved otherwise. I should have been more clear when I posted. It seems that you believed that I was supporting the notion that Smith is a proven QB.

The argument you put forth, that Smith is unproven, is well taken and I agree with you. Only time will tell. I would just hate to pass on this opportunity to find out later that Smith is what he was touted to be.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Only cause you agree. Sorry but the idea that this is shot down is funny. No teh issues are out there. If Saban drafts Smith, doesnt mean the issues arent issues, it means Saban believes those can be worked out and wont hinder him from being great. Which is possible. Blue says he trusts Saban, so do I, does that mean if Saban doesnt draft him that the concerns were real? How exactly was the NFL personnel mens concerns shot down and proven false by fans who are not in teh loop and who have not seen teh kid play 1 down? Hardy shot down, not in any way.

Brandt, why is he a god now? Ron Wolf is considered widely respected for his qb evaluations and he said he likes what he see in Feeley, yet that was said to be bogus? why? because fans didnt agree, as if teh fans opinions were somehow more valid than a recognized expert. Kosar is considered a very intelligent person, he sees something in AJ yet he is dicredited because some dont want to hear it. So why should Brandt's opinion be taken as gospel? Sorry I am not saying he is wrong, he may be right, but that certainly doesnt discount the concerns raised about Smith. No matter how much anyone disagrees.


Now this is my feeling on Smith and why I dont want to draft him. Blue and others can testify that the concerns raised by some personnel men who obviously have a smidgen of crdibility since some teams actually value their opinion, I had teh same concerns. I raided those concerns over numerous threads. So hearing teh reports, further escalates teh concerns in my eyes. I do think Smith will be a very good qb, he has the intelligence and teh intangibles. I just am not sold he will be elite, outs are critical in teh NFL as I learbned from watching Jay play. Sorry but Jay is a smart qb, he just was limited physically. defenses knew it and schemed for it, forcing Jay to throw to his weaknesses, thus causing teh mistakes. That is why he was so effective with Ricky that firt year til teh thumb injury, defenses couldnt take away teh posts and teh seems that Jay hit well. After teh thumb well he couldnteven throw teh deep post well. There are certain passes that every qb has to make each game that have to have teh zip on it to get it there, dbs can close so fast if it isnt zipped in, teh dbs will recover and pick it off. That haoppened to Jay alot. I alway defended jay saying that with Ricky and teh right personnel, that we could avoid putting Jay in a position of havoing to play to his weakness. Well that is where I was wrong, that is where teh danger exists with AJ. That is what I see with Smith. Smith may be smart, but may havbe no say in it because the defense will take that say away and force him into situations that play to his weaknesses. Aj weakness? Pressure in his face. Is it correctable? to some degree, yes. He showed some better composure at the end of last year, he needs to show more. Quicker recognition, finding teh outlet guy with a defender in his face. If he can do that, he will succeed. But anyway that is teh concern with Smith, his intelligence can not fully compensate if he cnt get the drop back, get set quickly and mechanicly correct and make the outs and teh deep ball with any zip on it. That is all required, he is a longer project IMO because of it, and a qb that will no be ready fro 3 years is not worth teh #2 pick IMO.

So far, nothing has been shot down rgarding teh concerns for Smith, if Saban takes him, to me, it says that Saban doesnt think teh concerns will hamper him, not that they arent concerns, but that they arent sign enough to say he isnt worth the pick. But Saban has to say that and he hasnt. What he says to teh press and what he does on draft day are 2 diff things possibly.

Oh and this comment came from more than one writer.

For the same reasons, AJ can be great as well.
:tongue:

 

[PhinBeck]

My problem is this Runsover, this is the only article, post Workout, that makes these charges against Smith. Everything else I read in review of his workout was glowing, I would love to read others if you can provide a link.

Second, the writer quotes unnamed sources, which means he could have pulled them out of the air.

None of us know his agenda, but the facts are he is one writer who was not there and we have no named sources that support his claims.

Is Gil Brandt a god.....no, has he been scouting players since the 60's...yes, and he is the father of modern scouting, the Cowboys under his direction were light years ahead of other clubs in scouting.

The thing is, your right about what the Pre-workout concerns were regarding Smith, but according to everyone that has gone on record that was personally there, he answered them all.

This writer is not a credible source in and of himself.

GBN had an article, KB posted the link a couple days after Smiths workouts. They do not name names specifically but maybe I am naive, but cant see GBN just flat out lying they talked to NFL personnel men. Many scouts and personnel speak anonomously because they arent in charge and do not want to represent that they are speaking for teh one in charge. Happens all teh time.

I agree Brandt knows his stuff, I in no way discredit his opinion. But to hear that there were some NFL personnel men had teh same concerns I do AFTER his workout concerns me.

Saban spoke his opinion and it was favorable, but does that mean he doesnt have concerns? Is he telling everything? Is that the case with all other people in charge of teh decision making? Question to me remains unanswered and will til teh draft.

I like Sabans approach, which is why I will support Smith if he is teh pick. He is holding private workouts with the top qbs, teh top rbs, as well as teh next tier rbs and qbs to determine which route qb then rb or rb then qb provides teh best scenario and which way better the team more. Which is why I say he may like Smith and draft him, but doesnt mean teh concerns arent real, just that weighing all options, drafting Smith and getting a Faison or Morency, etc is still the better alternative. He could see something real special in Brown tho and decide that Campbell, Frye, McPherson, Fitzgerald are really good prospects and go Brown first.

I will admit that I see qb as a bigger possibility with all teh Williams talk. So if Saban gets an indication Ricky may indeed return, teh qb then rb scenario becomes even more possible.

 

[PhinBeck]

I stand by my opinion that the writers who are named, including Brandt, reported something different from what the unnamed sources reported. Call me crazy, but I put greater credibility in those reported from the scene that those who did not and remained unnamed. I saw nothing in your argument that proved otherwise. I should have been more clear when I posted. It seems that you believed that I was supporting the notion that Smith is a proven QB.

The argument you put forth, that Smith is unproven, is well taken and I agree with you. Only time will tell. I would just hate to pass on this opportunity to find out later that Smith is what he was touted to be.

Like I replied to blue, the named sources were named because they either were former NFL guys in teh media or people that have final say. Some scouts may not be "able" to come out and disclose their names in print. Due to not representing they are speaking for those in charge. I also do not doubt that many liked what they saw and were honest in their evaluation. That doesnt discount that there maybe dissenting opinions.

I also agree that Smith could be a great qb, I just have pesronal concerns. This is from watching qbs that have played in that type of system come in and struggle after bing considered cant miss prospects.

I also recognize that being in a position to get a franchise qb when you dont expect to be there again provides teh initiative to take advantage of that position. I just think and I could be very wrong, that there is a larger risk factor with Smith than there should be. Having 2 diff sources speak to those same concerns I have, only gives credence to my thought process in my own head. Brandt opinion and teh unnamed sources opinions neither prove anything. As far as Sabans approach he is given me some assurances by the way he is scouting teh diff prospects.

 

[Celtkin]

Like I replied to blue, the named sources were named because they either were former NFL guys in teh media or people that have final say. Some scouts may not be "able" to come out and disclose their names in print. Due to not representing they are speaking for those in charge. I also do not doubt that many liked what they saw and were honest in their evaluation. That doesnt discount that there maybe dissenting opinions.

I mentioned this yesterday

I believe there are reasons why the scouts cited in the first piece reported something that no one else noticed. The sources may not have liked something that they saw in Smith or, more likely, could be from a team who hopes that negative grumblings cause Smith to fall into their laps.