The Upside, Downside, and Under the Surface | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Upside, Downside, and Under the Surface

ckparrothead said:
That's a nice story, but I don't think anyone should assume that unless they are very close to the situation and know Mueller's mind a bit.


Your first post was well written and presented many facts to support your "upsides" but your "downside" is nothing but assumptions of Mueller's, and Saban's, character and predicting a colossal clash of ego's, very dramatic. If you are basing this pay-per-view headliner on Mueller's fall in New Orleans then I think your fears are misplaced. Mueller has worked behind the scenes for a few very good coaches and it wasn't until the dunderhead Benson decided to pull a Jerry Jones that Mueller was characterized (falsely) as an egomaniacal powermongerer.
 
ckparrothead said:
For the record, I'm somewhat skeptical of the Mueller hiring. He carries risks, IMO.

THE UPSIDE

Nick Saban needed a guy to team up with who has experience managing the salary cap. Randy Mueller has the most extensive hands-on experience of any GM candidate available, and he has it in the role of a talent evaluator (as opposed to a contract negotiator, like Bryan Widmeier). Mueller's had all the juice before, if I'm not mistaken, so the guy knows what he's doing. That kind of thing could be key to Nick Saban's getting acclimated to the salary capped NFL.

The guy has also made some well-documented good decisions. He tossed the Ricky bomb off his ship before it blew, drafted his effective replacement in only one shot (some teams takes a few shots before you land the right dude). He made some decent decisions in both Seattle and New Orleans. He worked his way up in Seattle.

There is also a POSSIBILITY (I say possible, not necessarily probable) that the guy really wants to work his way back up to being the guy with all the juice, somewhere in some NFL city. So, he should work hard in Miami under Saban, do his homework, make good decisions, and then he'll get his shot again. By now he must know that after being interviewed and passed over so many times for the GM role, he's not going to get back into it by staying with ESPN.


THE DOWNSIDE

I don't think this is a guy Saban can trust, especially long-term. Mueller is a power-hungry type of GM candidate, and he's also very arrogant. So is Saban, mind you. They will eventually clash, Saban will overrule Mueller and Mueller will hate Saban for it. If Mueller makes good on working hard to shine up his reputation and gets the Dolphins some good talent, we had better let this guy go off to some other team because if he stays he will position himself for a power struggle with Nick Saban over final say and authority.

This smells of a desperation move by Mueller, to get back into the game so that maybe he makes a better candidate than he has been. As such, he could take it as a sign that he needs to work really hard, make himself attractive to other teams. Or, he could have just done it for the sake of being paid by an NFL team, and he won't be looking to work hard, at least not until he actually gets what he wants, his own NFL team to run how he sees fit.

All offseason Saban has been catching balls of lightning and hoping to use them the right way without getting burned. This smells like the same thing. Lets hope it doesn't blow up.


UNDER THE SURFACE

Randy Mueller interviewed for the Dolphins GM gig last offseason, when it was eventually given to Rick Spielman. He felt insulted, like he was just toyed with to pick his brain for ideas and then they went ahead and hired their own guy.

He was sort of right. The main thing to take from it is they picked his brain for ideas. It is similar in my business. If you are looking to hire a research analyst to cover healthcare stocks, you interview him and the first thing you may ask him is what stocks he likes right now and why. Similarly, they may have asked Randy Mueller what you like on the dolphins, what you like in the next draft, what you like in free agency or the trade market, what you would change about the Dolphins, and what you do not like out there in the market or draft.

I'm guessing he nailed some predictions pretty dead on. He made a big enough impression that they hired him so fast after Spielman left and none of us saw it coming.

Issues he may have nailed:

1. Ricky is a pothead and can't ever be trusted to lead a franchise
2. Wade Smith at Left Tackle is worst than a joke
3. Our interior offensive line was weak
4. David Boston should not be trusted to stay injury free and out of trouble

I'm guessing he nailed at least two or three of those. The biggest one could have been revealing that Ricky was a pothead and should not ever be trusted. Maybe I'm a little bit fuzzy on the whole timeline, but the marijuana thing started coming to a head I think only a little after we hired Spielman as the full General Manager, no?

The main thing to take, under the surface of this move, in my opinion is that Mueller felt taken advantage of after his interview with the Dolphins because the Dolphins picked his brain apart and I am guessing he gave us his best stuff, and then they went ahead and hired their own guy. If he is still willing to join the Dolphins, I am guessing it is because the Dolphins largely avoided his suggestions. If the Dolphins had stolen all his ideas while hiring their own guy, I doubt he would have accepted a job under Huizenga and Jones and company.
Great post ck...
I agree with alot of your point's.. I am not sold on R Mueller, if this guy is such a great GM then why has he been an analyst for ESPN for 3 or 4 years?
Mueller is a snake in the grass imo and for every positive that he has been a part of there seems to be more than a few negatives that has his signature also....
:rolleyes2

Marino1983
 
CK..

Another perspective on this issue is that perhaps Mueller feels that Saban is righting the ship here and will be successful. If so, and he is a part of it, then his stock will rise come the next year or two as far as a "full-power GM" in the league somewhere else.

I have to agree with you on several of the points you made. Another thing, perhaps Mr. H. is more involved in this hiring than he appears to be since he did a lot of the leg work last year on Mueller. Just a thought.

I have heard Mueller make some odd comments on ESPN the last few years that make me a little wary as well. I think he has all the qualifications and is a good talent evaluator, organizationally speaking. But he is a bit of a power monger and that may be the area that he and Saban clash.

Saban may be making this move because Mueller is a well-established NFL exec type and a strong person to help Saban get back into the business side of the NFL. Coupled with Brian Wiedemeyer, one of the better capologists in the league, it could be a strong team. Again, perhaps Saban wants to use Mueller's expertise to "relearn" the NFL and cap business ??? Just another thought...
 
CK,
I am sorry but I didn't manage to read the entire post but what I read seemed to be well thought out. But don't you think that your overanalyzing this a little bit. I mean we got one of the best guys available. Don't you think? Now lets see what he can do.
 
LarryFinFan said:
CK..

Another perspective on this issue is that perhaps Mueller feels that Saban is righting the ship here and will be successful. If so, and he is a part of it, then his stock will rise come the next year or two as far as a "full-power GM" in the league somewhere else.

This is what I think as well. He's jumping on a team that is poised to succeed. He'll help of course and then use the accolades to jump to the next, more powerful position.
 
rafael said:
This is what I think as well. He's jumping on a team that is poised to succeed. He'll help of course and then use the accolades to jump to the next, more powerful position.

But that's ok, isn't it? We "use" him to help Saban and he "uses" us to springboard his career. As long as he'w with us for a couple of years and we get to where we want to be, I'm ok with this.
 
ckparrothead said:
For the record, I'm somewhat skeptical of the Mueller hiring. He carries risks, IMO.

THE UPSIDE

Nick Saban needed a guy to team up with who has experience managing the salary cap. Randy Mueller has the most extensive hands-on experience of any GM candidate available, and he has it in the role of a talent evaluator (as opposed to a contract negotiator, like Bryan Widmeier). Mueller's had all the juice before, if I'm not mistaken, so the guy knows what he's doing. That kind of thing could be key to Nick Saban's getting acclimated to the salary capped NFL.

The guy has also made some well-documented good decisions. He tossed the Ricky bomb off his ship before it blew, drafted his effective replacement in only one shot (some teams takes a few shots before you land the right dude). He made some decent decisions in both Seattle and New Orleans. He worked his way up in Seattle.

There is also a POSSIBILITY (I say possible, not necessarily probable) that the guy really wants to work his way back up to being the guy with all the juice, somewhere in some NFL city. So, he should work hard in Miami under Saban, do his homework, make good decisions, and then he'll get his shot again. By now he must know that after being interviewed and passed over so many times for the GM role, he's not going to get back into it by staying with ESPN.


THE DOWNSIDE

I don't think this is a guy Saban can trust, especially long-term. Mueller is a power-hungry type of GM candidate, and he's also very arrogant. So is Saban, mind you. They will eventually clash, Saban will overrule Mueller and Mueller will hate Saban for it. If Mueller makes good on working hard to shine up his reputation and gets the Dolphins some good talent, we had better let this guy go off to some other team because if he stays he will position himself for a power struggle with Nick Saban over final say and authority.

This smells of a desperation move by Mueller, to get back into the game so that maybe he makes a better candidate than he has been. As such, he could take it as a sign that he needs to work really hard, make himself attractive to other teams. Or, he could have just done it for the sake of being paid by an NFL team, and he won't be looking to work hard, at least not until he actually gets what he wants, his own NFL team to run how he sees fit.

All offseason Saban has been catching balls of lightning and hoping to use them the right way without getting burned. This smells like the same thing. Lets hope it doesn't blow up.


UNDER THE SURFACE

Randy Mueller interviewed for the Dolphins GM gig last offseason, when it was eventually given to Rick Spielman. He felt insulted, like he was just toyed with to pick his brain for ideas and then they went ahead and hired their own guy.

He was sort of right. The main thing to take from it is they picked his brain for ideas. It is similar in my business. If you are looking to hire a research analyst to cover healthcare stocks, you interview him and the first thing you may ask him is what stocks he likes right now and why. Similarly, they may have asked Randy Mueller what you like on the dolphins, what you like in the next draft, what you like in free agency or the trade market, what you would change about the Dolphins, and what you do not like out there in the market or draft.

I'm guessing he nailed some predictions pretty dead on. He made a big enough impression that they hired him so fast after Spielman left and none of us saw it coming.

Issues he may have nailed:

1. Ricky is a pothead and can't ever be trusted to lead a franchise
2. Wade Smith at Left Tackle is worst than a joke
3. Our interior offensive line was weak
4. David Boston should not be trusted to stay injury free and out of trouble

I'm guessing he nailed at least two or three of those. The biggest one could have been revealing that Ricky was a pothead and should not ever be trusted. Maybe I'm a little bit fuzzy on the whole timeline, but the marijuana thing started coming to a head I think only a little after we hired Spielman as the full General Manager, no?

The main thing to take, under the surface of this move, in my opinion is that Mueller felt taken advantage of after his interview with the Dolphins because the Dolphins picked his brain apart and I am guessing he gave us his best stuff, and then they went ahead and hired their own guy. If he is still willing to join the Dolphins, I am guessing it is because the Dolphins largely avoided his suggestions. If the Dolphins had stolen all his ideas while hiring their own guy, I doubt he would have accepted a job under Huizenga and Jones and company.

Good post, but if they clash alot some1 will be looking for a new job.
 
jaxdolfan said:
Didnt mueller say that Wanny sucked?

Tell us CK.

If memory serves me correctly one of the reasons he turned down the job was that hew as not given control of firing coaches
 
rafael said:
This is what I think as well. He's jumping on a team that is poised to succeed. He'll help of course and then use the accolades to jump to the next, more powerful position.
How is he going to get the recognition or accolades to make that jump when Saban is THE ONE VOICE of the Dolphins?

Any success that this team has in the next two years is likely going to be attributed to Saban, and not the GM.
 
inFINSible said:
How is he going to get the recognition or accolades to make that jump when Saban is THE ONE VOICE of the Dolphins?

Any success that this team has in the next two years is likely going to be attributed to Saban, and not the GM.

If we do have success, it will be the "halo effect". Or the opposite of "guilt by association". He may not receive full credit for turning the team around, but he will surely receive some credit.
 
The guy wants to be part of something special (a little too Jimm'eh for my tastes). What better place than Miami? He doesn't get full control, or all the press that Saban will inevitably receive. But I GUARANTEE that he will be happy to ride the coattails of Miami's success, while any failings in Miami will, after Saban't honeymoon is over, will be attributed in some way to Saban. And I see Saban taking full credit for the negatives relative to the positives.

I just don't see why there has to be some negative label attached to the poor guy just because he is coming to Miami. Championships make EVERYONE look good, even us fans.
 
I really have no reason to question Nick Saban or any of his decisions up through now. I'm going to assume that Nick sat down with Randy, talked to him face to face, ran some things by him, and Randy excepted. Nick, being able to judge people pretty well, felt comfortable enough and decided this was the man he wanted and needed by his side. If Nick is comfortable with this, then I am. I am not just one who's going to agree with every move that the Dolphins or Nick makes, but, Randy is proven and has been there done that, and like I said, if Nick feels that Randy is what's best of Miami right now, then i'm in no position to argue with him.
 
fishfan34 said:
I really have no reason to question Nick Saban or any of his decisions up through now. I'm going to assume that Nick sat down with Randy, talked to him face to face, ran some things by him, and Randy excepted. Nick, being able to judge people pretty well, felt comfortable enough and decided this was the man he wanted and needed by his side. If Nick is comfortable with this, then I am. I am not just one who's going to agree with every move that the Dolphins or Nick makes, but, Randy is proven and has been there done that, and like I said, if Nick feels that Randy is what's best of Miami right now, then i'm in no position to argue with him.
Of course not, none of us are but, there is plenty of discusion to be had none the less.
No matter how much confidence or blind faith you have in Nick Saban, this is still a controversial move with the possibility of two head strong individuals clashing over who is going to get credit for success or failure.

What happens when Randy finds a diamond in the rough or is responsible for finding a very good player and Nick Saban is given the credit due to his "final say" authority?

And on the other hand, what if Saban ignores a Mueller recomendation and goes with his own idea or player and hits a bust? Is Randy going to try and distance himself from that choice, thus driving a wedge between him and Saban?
 
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