The Wrong Te

[ckparrothead]

Does that mean giving up on Gesicki?

No it would mean putting him in position to succeed. While also taking a player who would make a pretty fantastic Y.

 

[Kdawg954]

No it would mean putting him in position to succeed. While also taking a player who would make a pretty fantastic Y.

So then give up on Smythe? He seems like a very proper option as a potential “Y” TE.

I have more hope for him getting regular snaps than Mike Gesicki at this point.

 

[ckparrothead]

So then give up on Smythe? He seems like a very proper option as a potential “Y” TE.

I have more hope for him getting regular snaps than Mike Gesicki at this point.

Durham Smythe was never all that interesting. Slow as molasses. Good pass catcher. Coming along as a blocker. But as the Dolphins have shown, you can add three Durham Smythes to the roster pretty easy without even giving much up in the process. Now they have Dwayne Smythe, Clive Smythe, and Nick O'Smythe.

Basically the Dolphins took Smythe because they realized they needed SOMEONE to play Y next to Mike Gesicki, since he's so obviously an F. It was a desperation pick on a solid player that can make a roster. But it was never rolling the dice on a guy you think could be really good down the road.

Quite frankly I heard, from a source that told me about Brian Flores and even the Dennis Allen interview well before those were public, that they really targeted Will Dissly with that pick and then panicked when Will went off the board.

When New England took an F in the 2010 Draft they did it in the 4th round and they made sure they spent the 2nd rounder on a compelling Y first. Miami kind of put the cart before the horse. That's the thing you could probably criticize here. But I think Adam Gase thought that Mike Gesicki could be a real Y down the road in his offense, especially Y-ISO. It's been suggested here by Digital (and I have no reason to doubt him) that Gase did what he did with Gesicki in 2018 because he was trying to develop him long term, force him to learn the things he didn't learn in college.

I think if you take a Kahale Warring then you're killing two birds with one stone. You're fixing the Y position, which is important, and then you're giving yourself a still kind of interesting option to use at the F position when you go 2-TE or 3-TE. Back in 2011 & 2012 the Patriots spent over 66% of their snaps with multiple TEs on the field...which is pretty unique.

 

[TannDaMan17]

Y'all crazy, the first year means very little with this position, everyone knows that about TE's.

Gesicki is one of the the best athletes in the history of the NFL combine, he will end up being a better pro than Goedert in the long run.

Athleticism isn't everything, but it matters a lot and I have no doubt Gesicki will improve tremendously this season.

 

[tay0365]

Though I admit I was hoping for Goedert, Gesicki if used the right way could be a poor mans Graham, and a darn good and effective receiving weapon.

All we can do is cross our fingers, and hope Gesicki with this new staff has a far more productive 2nd year.

 

[hoops]

That warring kid is interesting. Miamis got 5 tight ends in tbe building. Doubt they invest real draft capitol in a 6th

Anybody want to bet Durham smythe finds nfl work longer than gesicki?

 

[JahnDho]

Still weird everyone are obsessed with Dallas Goedert.

Mark Andrews was the best rookie TE in the NFL last year and he was the best TE prospect in the draft.

I wanted Goedert too, still do and also think he’s better than Andrews. So does Pro Football Focus...

Andrews had more yards, more catches and more YPR. He’s a good TE, but was and will be limited in a Lamar run offense.

Goedert was and will be limited by the presence of Ertz. Goedert’s stats in the same categories are lower. However, Goedert had more TDs, a higher run blocking grade, higher catch rate, and higher passer rating when thrown to. He had the best single game grade per PFF of any TE in 2018 (against Dallas); beating guys like Jaylon Smith and Vander Esch.

 

[ckparrothead]

I mean, I’ve watched all their targets. Andrews was better. More impressive work. Could change in the future, who knows. But round one clearly goes to Andrews.

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

Y'all crazy, the first year means very little with this position, everyone knows that about TE's.

Gesicki is one of the the best athletes in the history of the NFL combine, he will end up being a better pro than Goedert in the long run.

Athleticism isn't everything, but it matters a lot and I have no doubt Gesicki will improve tremendously this season.

Let's hope, I'd bet against it...and I bet on almost everything.

 

[superphin]

How can anyone properly judge a rookie TE (who historically struggle their 1st years) in the offense we fielded last year? Our leading receiver had 575 yards, which is really really bad.

The falcons 4th WR had 660 yards, the Ravens 3rd WR had 651 yards, most teams #3 or #4 WR had more yards than our leading WR did last year. We are 1 of 2 teams to not have a WR break 600 yds receiving the other being the Redskins. We failed to throw for 3k yards for the 1st time since 2003 and in 2003 we had 487 rush attempts compared to the 371 we had in 2018. We ran the fewest plays in Dolphin history in a 16 game schedule, you would have to go back to the 70's when they only played 14 games to find fewer plays ran by a Dolphin offense. You have to go back to 2007 when we 1-15 to find a season since 2000 in which our leading WR failed to break 600 yards. We sucked which makes it hard to evaluate anyone.

 

[DefensiveEnd76]

Gesicki ran like a clumsy baby giraffe in 2018. He also was dominated by CBs who he outweighed by 50 pounds. It was a pathetic performance.

 

[DefensiveEnd76]

Hope Gesicki isn't the second coming of Michael Egnew.

 

[JahnDho]

Y'all crazy, the first year means very little with this position, everyone knows that about TE's.

Gesicki is one of the the best athletes in the history of the NFL combine, he will end up being a better pro than Goedert in the long run.

Athleticism isn't everything, but it matters a lot and I have no doubt Gesicki will improve tremendously this season.

These Freak Athletes are missing something. Just ask Chris Conley about athletic ability...his 97th % SPARQ score certainly isn’t everything and many have gotten into the league with strong scores to end up missing that it factor they need to translate to the NFL. I’m probably wrong, but my guess is it’s a high emotional IQ. Couple other recents: Phillip Dorsett, Breshard Perriman, and Josh Doctson.

With that said, Gesicki could be an exception. The TE position is different than WR/RB and his size and overall speed can create mismatches. Gronk didn’t look especially quick or fluid in his later years (see Miami Miracle) but he dominated with other intangibles. Maybe Gesicki will learn and grow into a better version of himself.

 

[Digital]

So sad that we missed out (again) on a player that SOOOOOO many Dolphin fans were right about:



God, I hope the new administration does a better job of A) identifying talent and B) using said talent (because Gesicki was way under utilized):

Sorry, but I disagree with you.

The main difference between their stats is their targets. With equal targets their stat lines would have been fairly similar. Neither is great, but both were good rookie TE seasons, at a position that rarely makes an impact as a rookie.

In fact, the first commentator words in your Dallas Goedert video really underscore the different situations. It opens by the commentators saying "Wentz, with time, to the end zone." When a QB targets his TE in the end zone, a common occurrence, the TE is going to have more TD's … its really pretty straight forward. The Eagles had a better offense, with better players. Heck, Goedert wasn't even the 1st TE in Philly, while even before catching a pass Gesicki had drawn double-teams!

I realize these are highlight videos, and everyone looks great when we cherry pick the most successful plays, but even in these videos we see evidence that Gesicki is better at contested catches, better speed vertically, more athletic with better agility and vertical leap, and he makes some difficult catches. Goedert looks like he has a chance to become the next Jason Witten … a very good TE. But even looking at those snippets you can see that Gesicki's ceiling is much higher, and he has the kind of potential of a Jimmy Graham, who in his prime and utilized by a good offense was dominant … but even Graham looked ordinary in the Seattle system that didn't emphasize him as a pass catcher.

It's currently popular to trash Mike Gesicki, but I firmly believe those people criticizing now will change their opinion this year and start to really appreciate the player. By the time his rookie contract is coming up most people will view him as a must-resign type player, and I think that begins this year.

 

[Digital]

Why don't we look at the good instead of the bad. Tell me he doesn't look fast and fluid when he catches the ball. Watch him beat a LB and a DB up the seam. Tell me there's a LB that can cover him man to man if you drag him across the middle.

So, zone coverage? Get him vertical over the middle. Man coverage, drag him. You do this and the defense starts to respect him, you open up for Edelman space passes that can net 5-7 yards.

And never, ever have him block. Teach him to chip, one quick punch, and get moving. Want blocking? Bring in one of the other 5 or whatever number it is of TEs to do that. Check in another lineman as a TE in goaline situations. Do whatever as long as you.dont.ask.him.to.do.what.he.is.not.good.at.

He's not physical. He may never be. Who knows? Weight room, coaching and experience might change that. It might not so as much as he should be able to out reach-over/muscle a DB on a jump ball, don't ask him to do so if he can't.

We all know that Gase would regularly and inexplicably go away from what was working. I'd pay money to take a stroll through that guy's brain. Gore is falling for 4 yards a carry and your go-to is shotgun on 3rd and 1s.

How can you possibly judge Gesicki after one year on an offense like that? Judge him on his blocking all day. He earned that.

I'm sure if there were highlights of him getting bullied it would have more footage than below. But he's here now. Use him for what he can do. Get him running forward off of the snap and use his speed rather than toughness which he is obviously lacking.

Thanks for the better video. It helps illustrate your point about the drag routes.

Gesicki is a natural mismatch that no defense will ever enjoy covering. With him being adjusted to the NFL this year, I'm expecting a lot more targets and production.