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The Wrong Te

I mean, I’ve watched all their targets. Andrews was better. More impressive work. Could change in the future, who knows. But round one clearly goes to Andrews.

No offense, because I respect your attention to detail, but I disagree with many of your conclusions.
 
How can anyone properly judge a rookie TE (who historically struggle their 1st years) in the offense we fielded last year? …

We ran the fewest plays in Dolphin history in a 16 game schedule, you would have to go back to the 70's when they only played 14 games to find fewer plays ran by a Dolphin offense. You have to go back to 2007 when we 1-15 to find a season since 2000 in which our leading WR failed to break 600 yards. We sucked which makes it hard to evaluate anyone.
I edited down this quote to highlight the points I wanted to discuss, hope that's OK @superphin .

Great point about how our offense last year was epically anemic. The biggest difference between the stat lines of Gesicki and Goedert was Gesicki's lack of targets. This is why. We ran less plays … a LOT less than we usually do. That's because the entire offense was BAD, and it failed to sustain drives.

But also, Gesicki was being developed as a complete TE, and that required massive concentration on blocking, and Gesicki's playing time was curtailed because of it, and he had to put more time into learning the blocking side of it than Goedert did, because Goedert was a much more accomplished blocking prospect than Gesicki, who was a converted WR.

I asked everyone to have faith and give Xavien Howard time, and he would make good on his obvious potential. Press-man CB's take time to adjust to the more physically dominant NFL game. Likewise, TE's take time to adjust … and I'm asking everyone to give Gesicki some time, because I think you'll see a much improved player this year now that he is thinking less and reacting instinctively more.
 
There's some impressive stuff in Dallas Goedert's work from 2018. But most of what he did was pretty much handed to him.

There was not much to be impressed by in Mike Gesicki's 2018 work, unfortunately. I was a fan of his coming out, I still think he could be a good player, but it is what it is.

Mark Andrews did something impressive from a football standpoint nearly every time he caught the ball.
 
Well, it's like I said before - the Eagles know how to use their TE's. They know how to scheme them open and get production out of the position. The Dolphins are not even playing the same sport when you break down the film of what they're doing.

Miami is going to have to manufacture production for their TE's, especially Gesicki. You have to scheme him open against zones. You can't isolate him and count on him to win - he's not physical and has poor balance. And he'll always not be physical and have poor balance.

The Eagles were able to scheme Goedert open via formations and personnel packages that prevented defenses from being able to play man against them. They attacked one defender in zone with two tight ends such as a 5 wide look but out of a 12 personnel package. They forced defenses to convert their man intentions to zone by spreading them out horizontally, and the isolated defender had to make a choice and couldn't be right. Miami was incapable of doing that under Gase. But changing coaches or schemes still doesn't change Gesicki's poor physicality, balance, and playing instincts.

You can improve production simply by increasing opportunities and targets. But it still doesn't mean improvement was made in terms of traits.

Most of the best athletes ever tested at the combine simply didn't turn out to be good football players.

I think Miami's new coaches know all this the same way. They'll know how to use their TE's and know what they want at the position. And players like Hockenson and Warring would certainly be a priority if I were making the decisions. These new coaches know they have to acquire players like that at the TE position. They're not magicians. They're football coaches. Like chefs, they need the correct ingredients to make the best dish possible.
 
One point to make if Mike G fails to develop this year, hes worth nothing next year.

If hes is to traded you do it now while the unknown factor is still in play for some GM's.
 
The best case scenario for Gesicki floating around in my mind is just that they're able to scheme him open for some catch production, but also that they're able to put him into positions where we know he can actually win. If you have those two things, you have a productive player.
 
There's some impressive stuff in Dallas Goedert's work from 2018. But most of what he did was pretty much handed to him.

There was not much to be impressed by in Mike Gesicki's 2018 work, unfortunately. I was a fan of his coming out, I still think he could be a good player, but it is what it is.

Mark Andrews did something impressive from a football standpoint nearly every time he caught the ball.

Can’t imagine we’re watching different film but I saw the opposite in both.

Andrews likes to jump over defenders...very Gesickiesque to the same point running through the defender would have gotten just as many yards. He did very little after the catch. Very few broken tackles; more often than not, taking just 1 DB to bring him down. He falls down after the catch or runs out of bounds on most catches without any effort to stay in. I don’t see the extra effort.

Goedert doing stuff on screens, after the catch, breaking tackles, spin moves. Making football moves that gain extra yards. Creating more.

I think sometimes you’re too analytical for your own good. Might be a scatoma of yours.
 
Can’t imagine we’re watching different film but I saw the opposite in both.

Andrews likes to jump over defenders...very Gesickiesque to the same point running through the defender would have gotten just as many yards. He did very little after the catch. Very few broken tackles; more often than not, taking just 1 DB to bring him down. He falls down after the catch or runs out of bounds on most catches without any effort to stay in. I don’t see the extra effort.

Goedert doing stuff on screens, after the catch, breaking tackles, spin moves. Making football moves that gain extra yards. Creating more.

I think sometimes you’re too analytical for your own good. Might be a scatoma of yours.

Noted.

Mainly I think your problem is that you don't really know what you're looking at when you see it.
 
Noted.

Mainly I think your problem is that you don't really know what you're looking at when you see it.

I guess we’ll see...PFF has Goedert rated higher too, but everyone should go with your conclusion.

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I guess we’ll see...PFF has Goedert rated higher too, but everyone should go with your opinion.

View attachment 18673 View attachment 18674

No they shouldn't. Everyone should develop their own opinion. I've been adamant about that for decades.

However, they should probably keep their foolish mouths shut trying to psychoanalyze some dude on the internet they've never met and choosing to go that route rather than just saying, hey I disagree.
 
Well, it's like I said before - the Eagles know how to use their TE's. They know how to scheme them open and get production out of the position. The Dolphins are not even playing the same sport when you break down the film of what they're doing.

Miami is going to have to manufacture production for their TE's, especially Gesicki. You have to scheme him open against zones. You can't isolate him and count on him to win - he's not physical and has poor balance. And he'll always not be physical and have poor balance.

The Eagles were able to scheme Goedert open via formations and personnel packages that prevented defenses from being able to play man against them. They attacked one defender in zone with two tight ends such as a 5 wide look but out of a 12 personnel package. They forced defenses to convert their man intentions to zone by spreading them out horizontally, and the isolated defender had to make a choice and couldn't be right. Miami was incapable of doing that under Gase. But changing coaches or schemes still doesn't change Gesicki's poor physicality, balance, and playing instincts.

You can improve production simply by increasing opportunities and targets. But it still doesn't mean improvement was made in terms of traits.

Most of the best athletes ever tested at the combine simply didn't turn out to be good football players.

I think Miami's new coaches know all this the same way. They'll know how to use their TE's and know what they want at the position. And players like Hockenson and Warring would certainly be a priority if I were making the decisions. These new coaches know they have to acquire players like that at the TE position. They're not magicians. They're football coaches. Like chefs, they need the correct ingredients to make the best dish possible.

Good points here, the most interesting one is about balance.... I hear a lot of folks talk about how they can’t understand why the athleticism displayed at the combine isn’t translating to the field..

Well, imo that’s because the football field isn’t a scripted obstacle course, Gesicki doesn’t have the core strength nor balance to calibrate himself through all the trash and different unexpected movements that happens in route running and blocking.

He’s a strict one dimensional player that has to get free releases off the line..
 
See ya in the alliance football league mike in 2 years

It’s littered with guys with similar frames and similar games.
 
Can’t imagine we’re watching different film but I saw the opposite in both.

Andrews likes to jump over defenders...very Gesickiesque to the same point running through the defender would have gotten just as many yards. He did very little after the catch. Very few broken tackles; more often than not, taking just 1 DB to bring him down. He falls down after the catch or runs out of bounds on most catches without any effort to stay in. I don’t see the extra effort.

Goedert doing stuff on screens, after the catch, breaking tackles, spin moves. Making football moves that gain extra yards. Creating more.

I think sometimes you’re too analytical for your own good. Might be a scatoma of yours.

Incidentally, the word you were looking for is scotoma.

If you're going to insist that you're the smartest guy in the room, and that people who disagree with you must have discrete flaws that explain why they disagree with you, you should probably at least be good at spelling.
 
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