Third and Long

[mikethewreck]

If the 2008 Dolphins truly STUNK in an area, I would have to say it was when our offense faced third and long. There was a time where we just didn't make third and longs, period. I am sure the limitations of Penny's arm were a big part of this. What do you think we have done to upgrade the 3rd and long offense for the 2009 Dolphins? What plays do you think we will see in those situations? How much better do you think we will be this year?

 

[mikethewreck]

I was thinking when the Dolphins were on offense, there was already a third down defense thread and it got me thinking of our third down offense.

 

[MDFINFAN]

I was thinking when the Dolphins were on offense, there was already a third down defense thread and it got me thinking of our third down offense.

We got better at it toward the end of the season, but for the first 8-9 games we couldn't buy a 1st on a 3rd and 10/+ yards.

 

[biggfish72]

thats y bIGG NasTY JAKE GROOV is here lol :-)) D & D

 

[67Stang]

Ya, 3rd and 10 was really bad. I got so tired of the little passes to the flats too! Man, I hope we got that fixed!

 

[Geforce]

If the 2008 Dolphins truly STUNK in an area, I would have to say it was when our offense faced third and long. There was a time where we just didn't make third and longs, period. I am sure the limitations of Penny's arm were a big part of this. What do you think we have done to upgrade the 3rd and long offense for the 2009 Dolphins? What plays do you think we will see in those situations? How much better do you think we will be this year?

It wasn't about Penny's arm strength or lack thereof, it was about him not being completely confortable with the receivers and offensive line early on. There were many time during the first couple of months that if the receivers were not open early, he wouldn't wait for them to get open and would just settle for something underneath and hope they could run for it.

I think we were something like 1 for 38 on 3rd and 8 or more for the first half of the season.

 

[mikethewreck]

Here are our 2008 receivers sorted by yards per catch:

So based on a single back set and based on 2008 yards per catch results you would run 2 TEs (Martin-Fasano) and 2 WRs (Ginn-Cammy) with Cobbs in the backfield. Based on longest catch it would be Cobbs-Ginn-Martin-Bess-Cammy.

Looking at these numbers our RBs were not serious 1st down generating receivers except for Cobbs (3rd down back, makes sense). Also goes to show how little Wilford and London contributed last year.

I don't know that Hartline and Turner will be big ypc guys either. Kinda hoping Armstrong makes it, could use another speedy guy to get some yards in these situations.

 

[FinHopeful]

If Turner impresses when the pads come on, then the equation will change. If Turner is set to receive the ball near the 1st down, there are few corners and safeties that can dney him the catch or 2 yards. That creates match up problems. Ginn, Bess, and Turner are a deadly set for third downs.

 

[dolpns13]

We got better at it toward the end of the season, but for the first 8-9 games we couldn't buy a 1st on a 3rd and 10/+ yards.

the stat was somehing outrageous like, 0-15 on 3rd and 8+, toward the end of the season, like the last qaurter of the season, we did get a little better, but before that, if we went into 3rd and 7+, we were punting about 99% of the time... sucked... thats a major reason why most of our games against lesser competition (mainly NFC West) went down to the wire.

 

[Lord Of Miami]

I think this is why they drafted White.

Anyone who thinks we just drafted him just for the "Wildcat" needs their head checked!

We are going to try and run a true spread offense along with the wildcat and our base package.I'm thinking White will get around 15 plays a week via wildcat/spread Offense.Look for us to run the spread Offense with White as our QB around 20% of the time on 3rd down.

No player in the draft outside of Percy Harvin was going to help us pick up 1st downs like White, plus White is a QB, so it will be easyer to get the ball in his hands.

I have been saying all this since we drafted him, looks like people need to see it with their eye's before it makes any kind of sense to them, but really think about it people,, do you really think Bill would draft a player in the second round just to have him play 8 plays a game only in the wildcat??? lol Come on people!!!

If anyone thinks that, then they just don't understand Bill Parcells at all.

 

[dlockz]

I think this is why they drafted White.

Anyone who thinks we just drafted him just for the "Wildcat" needs their head checked!

We are going to try and run a true spread offense along with the wildcat and our base package.I'm thinking White will get around 15 plays a week via wildcat/spread Offense.Look for us to run the spread Offense with White as our QB around 20% of the time on 3rd down.

No player in the draft outside of Percy Harvin was going to help us pick up 1st downs like White, plus White is a QB, so it will be easyer to get the ball in his hands.

I have been saying all this since we drafted him, looks like people need to see it with their eye's before it makes any kind of sense to them, but really think about it people,, do you really think Bill would draft a player in the second round just to have him play 8 plays a game only in the wildcat??? lol Come on people!!!

If anyone thinks that, then they just don't understand Bill Parcells at all.

So we drafted PAt White to come in on third dpwns? Doesnt seem like a great idea to constantly sit Pennington to play a rookie on third down. Sounds like a rough year if that was the case

 

[finfan54]

If the 2008 Dolphins truly STUNK in an area, I would have to say it was when our offense faced third and long. There was a time where we just didn't make third and longs, period. I am sure the limitations of Penny's arm were a big part of this. What do you think we have done to upgrade the 3rd and long offense for the 2009 Dolphins? What plays do you think we will see in those situations? How much better do you think we will be this year?

I've been watching some of the games I have taped and I noticed that we got better in stretches down at the end of the season. So that tells me they worked on it.

You have to remember we were putting together a team with Camarillo and Bess and a young rookie-like ginn with a changing system. What Pennington was able to do was remarkable in such a short period of time.

This year I expect two things to change in a big way. 3rd down conversions and ST's big plays without the penalties. We improve on those two things in a big way and keep playing mistake-free ball, then we can expect to win alot of games IMO.

 

[finfan54]

So we drafted PAt White to come in on third dpwns? Doesnt seem like a great idea to constantly sit Pennington to play a rookie on third down. Sounds like a rough year if that was the case

yeah I agree here. I see us running the WC more on first and second down moreso than 3rd down. We ran the WC alot on those downs and often it was after a set of downs were completed and we moved to midfield or to the 20 yd line.

Pat White is a rookie who will be asked to learn the playbook as a QB first, then they will incorporate White WC plays as the season progresses IMO.

 

[Lord Of Miami]

So we drafted PAt White to come in on third dpwns? Doesnt seem like a great idea to constantly sit Pennington to play a rookie on third down. Sounds like a rough year if that was the case

That's just what i think will happen and like i said only around 20% of the time.

I love Pennington but his lack of arm is what makes it hard for us to get 1st downs.On 3rd downs.Plus our only real deep guy is Ginn.

Tom Brady's 1st year starting they only gave him one or two reads a play.Just like most young QB's.So i think they are just going to give him one read and if it's not there then he can just take off running with it.

Let's not forget White is only here because Bill and the rest of them want to put in a true spread Offense into the nfl, with the option play and all the bells and whistles.

They want to be a run 1st team but they want to also mix it up.

Pat White is the 1st QB ever to come into the nfl and not have his team try to make him a drop back passer.All they want is for him to play his game, and that has never happen before.In time he'll become a decent drop back passer if need be, but they are just going to let Pat be Pat, and like i said that's never been done with a running QB in the nfl.

Running a true Spread Offense/Wildcat where 6 guys on the field at the same time can all pass,catch, and attack the defense from every angle on the field.That's never been done before, Not in the NFL,CFL,College, or High School.That will be the last stamp Bill leaves on the nfl.

If Bill doesn't want to do that then all the talk about Bill wanting Pat a year ago "at the same time we were not picking up 3rd downs" and making up wildcat plays two years before was all just a smoke screen..................lol along with with drafting of White.

Where there is smoke there is fire and this fire has been going on inside Bills head for over two years now.

 

[Geforce]

Pat White is the 1st QB ever to come into the nfl and not have his team try to make him a drop back passer.All they want is for him to play his game, and that has never happen before.In time he'll become a decent drop back passer if need be, but they are just going to let Pat be Pat, and like i said that's never been done with a running QB in the nfl.

This is not even close to being true. The Bears of the '70s didn't try to turn Bobby Douglas into a drop back passer. The Eagles didn't try to turn Randall Cunningham into a drop back passer nor did they try to do it with Donovan McNabb. It was McNabb decision to run less because of the criticism he received from the media that he ran too much. Teams may have wanted them to be more efficient within the pocket or keep their eyes downfield when they are out of the pocket but their teams did not try to make them into drop back passer.