this 3-4 crap is dumb

[CChambers7284]

We have alot of good linemen but the 3-4 only uses three of them. Taylor has alot of trouble being a LB and I think Saban should tank the 3-4. Thomas cant play in the 3-4 hardly at all. In the 4-3 he is the best MLB in football. The 3-4 makes him look near mediocre when he is forced to take on a 330 LB guard.

The team has a 4-3 personel, except for Traylor as a NT and the 3-4 just isnt working for us. We r giving up alot of yards with medium gain passes. It is easy to blame the secondary but with the defensiveback touching rule, they need a LB like zach who can just drop back and let things happen.

 

[Caps]

I like the 3-4. Saban likes the 3-4. Capers likes the 3-4. It's not going anywhere. The defense has been playing well, the offense is the unit that needs to get it's act together. Give Saban another draft/FA to get all his guys in here and we'll be even better.

 

[scook]

We don't have the LBs to play the 3-4. Until we get bigger LBs they should just stick to the 4-3.

 

[Disgustipate]

We have alot of good linemen but the 3-4 only uses three of them.

We're using the same personnel in the 4-3 as the 3-4. Jason Taylor does not leave the field for any reason other then injury, so going to the 4-3 is not going to change in the least bit who makes it on the field and who doesnt. Not to mention the fact that alot of our linemen are old or in the kind of physical shape where they are forced to be rotational players.

Taylor has alot of trouble being a LB and I think Saban should tank the 3-4. Thomas cant play in the 3-4 hardly at all. In the 4-3 he is the best MLB in football. The 3-4 makes him look near mediocre when he is forced to take on a 330 LB guard.

Uh, no.

Taylor has virtually the same responsibilities in a 4-3 as a 3-4. He's almost always rushing. Please, name me a situation where he dropped into coverage and we had no pass rush, or that he got beat badly in coverage.

Zach Thomas wont be helped by a switch to a 4-3 either. He's not going to be protected any more by defensive linemen then he will be in a 4-3. We cannot run the two 330+ pound DTs at the same time for any reasonable length of time, so that means that a switch to the 4-3 will essentially mean that the whole setup slides over a couple of yards, with the exact same players in 2-gap responsibilities protecting Zach.

The team has a 4-3 personel, except for Traylor as a NT and the 3-4 just isnt working for us. We r giving up alot of yards with medium gain passes. It is easy to blame the secondary but with the defensiveback touching rule, they need a LB like zach who can just drop back and let things happen.

Uh, no, we're not giving up alot of yards to medium gain passes. Miami is currently top-10 in pass defense. Miami is getting passed on short, with high completion percentage passes because teams are trying to adjust against the blitz that you guys are adamant is not working.

 

[Ronski_doodle]

Jason Taylor is best at right end period, when he plays at right end all game he will draw one maybe two holding calls, and frustration usually takes over and he gets a personal foul call. He can get into a groove and pressure the QB all game hit the QB force poor throws, interceptions fumbles, scrambles and possbly knocking the starter out of the game.
Zack Thomas is best at middle LB period. He needs the DT's to occupy the OLinemen.

 

[Phanatical]

Uh, no.

Taylor has virtually the same responsibilities in a 4-3 as a 3-4. He's almost always rushing. Please, name me a situation where he dropped into coverage and we had no pass rush, or that he got beat badly in coverage. quote]

So what's the point? If we're still effectively a 4-3 team, why not just let Taylor line up on the line every time where he's closer to the QB?

 

[Disgustipate]

So what's the point? If we're still effectively a 4-3 team, why not just let Taylor line up on the line every time where he's closer to the QB?

Uh, he's not any close to the QB in a 4-3. Even in the old Wannstedt-style 4-3, he still lined up in nearly the exact same spot, outside of the Tight End.

In the Dolphins current defense, Taylor is helped immensely by having a pass rushing lined up shaded over the Tackle as opposed to a run stuffer over the Guard, which makes it alot harder to double team him.

Lining up in a 2-point stance allows Taylor to stand up and see the play develop without losing much in terms of pass rush ability, either.

There is not to mention the fact that even when Taylor does drops back into coverage, he has an effect on the opposing teams blocking scheme. When he drops back in coverage, those players susposed to block him are left hesitating. For instance, that Yeremiah Bell sack vs. the Bills last week.

 

[Phanatical]

Uh, he's not any close to the QB in a 4-3. Even in the old Wannstedt-style 4-3, he still lined up in nearly the exact same spot, outside of the Tight End.

In the Dolphins current defense, Taylor is helped immensely by having a pass rushing lined up shaded over the Tackle as opposed to a run stuffer over the Guard, which makes it alot harder to double team him.

Lining up in a 2-point stance allows Taylor to stand up and see the play develop without losing much in terms of pass rush ability, either.

There is not to mention the fact that even when Taylor does drops back into coverage, he has an effect on the opposing teams blocking scheme. When he drops back in coverage, those players susposed to block him are left hesitating. For instance, that Yeremiah Bell sack vs. the Bills last week.

OK, I still fail to see the difference though. We're still basically playing a 4-3.

 

[Regan21286]

We have alot of good linemen but the 3-4 only uses three of them. Taylor has alot of trouble being a LB and I think Saban should tank the 3-4. Thomas cant play in the 3-4 hardly at all. In the 4-3 he is the best MLB in football. The 3-4 makes him look near mediocre when he is forced to take on a 330 LB guard.

The team has a 4-3 personel, except for Traylor as a NT and the 3-4 just isnt working for us. We r giving up alot of yards with medium gain passes. It is easy to blame the secondary but with the defensiveback touching rule, they need a LB like zach who can just drop back and let things happen.

It's better to use both like New England. They tried putting more 4-3 plays but it didn't work for them. But I don't see why we don't put Zach in coverage and just rush the other LBs.

 

[Disgustipate]

OK, I still fail to see the difference though. We're still basically playing a 4-3.

Even when Miami is playing a 3-4, most of the time they are using the same kind of alignment and responsibilities as in a 4-3. You've still got a Nose Tackle, two 285+ pound DE/DTs, 2 linebackers lined up over the guards, one on the LOS, and a DE lined up with a positioning in a 3-point stance like an OLB.

 

[Phanatical]

Even when Miami is playing a 3-4, most of the time they are using the same kind of alignment and responsibilities as in a 4-3. You've still got a Nose Tackle, two 285+ pound DE/DTs, 2 linebackers lined up over the guards, one on the LOS, and a DE lined up with a positioning in a 3-point stance like an OLB.

That's exactly my point, thanks for agreeing and reiterating it so well.

 

[Disgustipate]

That's exactly my point, thanks for agreeing and reiterating it so well.

No, actually, it has nothing to do with your point unless you phrased it very poorly.

The defense is not "basically" a 4-3. It's a 3-4 defense, as Saban has stated in the past. When we line up in the 4-3, it's in name only the overwhelming majority of the time. The amount of time that Miami lines up in what is "basically" a 4-3 is negligible.

 

[Phanatical]

No, actually, it has nothing to do with your point unless you phrased it very poorly.

The defense is not "basically" a 4-3. It's a 3-4 defense, as Saban has stated in the past. When we line up in the 4-3, it's in name only the overwhelming majority of the time. The amount of time that Miami lines up in what is "basically" a 4-3 is negligible.

Ha ha. I think you just like to argue. Yes, I'm saying the same thing. The Dolphins aren't doing much different when they play the 3-4 as when they play the 4-3. At least, I think that's what you are saying. LOL

GO PHINS~!

 

[Mr.Majestik]

The 3-4 takes time

Patience is a virtue, unless you're an NFL fan. The Dolphins hire a new offensive coordinator, trade for a new quarterback, throw together a new offensive line, and fans are astounded, no check that, outraged, that the offense is not performing at a playoff level a couple weeks into the season!

We hire Dom Capers, a guru of the 3-4, to run a 3-4, a defense that has its own complications and intricacies, which require time to learn and adapt to, and we expect the Blitzburgh Steelers from the get-go. The problem isn't the 3-4, or Mularkey's playcalling on offense, or Culpepper, it's the expectations, which are not realistic. The problem is the total absense of patience, or foresight on the part of petulant fans.

Teams that win in the NFL have continuity, they have had time to play together, and apply their systems to their personnel. The 3-4 is complicated, and it requires time to install and run properly, there will be a learning curve, would you rather begin that learning curve now, or postpone it another year? We will obviously have some turnover on the defensive side of the ball next year, and in the future, but several guys on the defense have a long future ahead of them, so the sooner they begin play in the system the better they will be in the future. It's a lot easier to get two, or three new additions on defense to adapt to the system then it would be to get the whole defensive unit to adapt to it at some future time when we supposedly have the correct personnel to run it. How are we supposed to know who is and isn't capable of playing within a 3-4 if we play a 4-3?

The Steelers have been running their particular version of the 3-4 for 15-years. The Patriots have been running their version for 7-years. When Belicheck got to New England, McGiniest was used much as Jason Taylor had been used his entire career in the 4-3. Tedy Bruschi was no more the prototype 3-4 linebacker then Zach Thomas is. The Chargers have been running their 3-4 for 5-years now. The Cowboys installed their version last year, and had a lot of problems with it, now they're playing it at a high level. The benefits of the 3-4 long term far outweigh any short-term pains, which in any case are highly overstated because this defense, even while supposedly struggling has been very good.

 

[Sirspud]

To tell you the truth I didn't mind our old "vanilla" defense, we got the job done and we had games where we absolutely overwhelmed the offense.