Those "Meaningless Wins" Proved Not-So-Meaningless | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Those "Meaningless Wins" Proved Not-So-Meaningless

SCOTTY said:
Every year, every win is meaningless unless it's the superbowl...you know...based on the big picture and all.
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I still remember those meaningless playoff losses. Glad we didn’t kill our draft positions with meaningless wins, right?
 
I actually liked the spark at the end of last season where as I didn't love the Matt Moore wins a few years back. This team showed fight and seemed to start to believe in themselves and their coach. It actually has me thinking we have something to build on, where as the Matt Moore wins were against bad teams and we knew it was getting blown up after the season. Fins up always and forever!!!
 
I love ya bro, but I just don't see it the same way this article does. Here's why.

1. I would MUCH rather have had the 1st pick in the draft, and never needed to trade up and be certain we had a healthy and elite QB. I would have taken Joe Burrow.
2. Byron Jones joined us for one reason ... we offered the most money.
3. Van Noy joined us for two reasons ... we offered the most money AND he knows the system fits him to a T ... well maybe 3, because he knows and likes Coach Flo too.
4. Ted Karras joined us for one reason ... I think we were the only team that even offered him ... and we were definitely the team that offered the most money.
5. Erick Flowers joined us for one reason ... we offered the most money ... and probably too much money if I'm honest.
6. Lawson joined us for 3 reasons ... we offered at least as much money as anyone else, he has a DL coach who knows him and believes in him and can get the best out of him, and he's a mediocre talent going to a place with no competition.
7. Oghba (sp?) joined us for one reason ... we offered the most money.

IMHO, none of these FA's changes their mind if we lost the Patriots and Bengals games. Sure, when they need to justify it, NONE of them are going to be honest and say it is because we offered the most money, that's just human nature. They're going to say what makes them look best, AND most supports their new team and makes them liked in the locker room. Such as they'll say they wanted a ... chance to be a leader ... to be in on the ground floor ... building something great here in Miami ... I'm sucking up to the coach, errrr I mean the coaching staff here is great ... this team has a lot of great players ... we're on the cusp of turning the corner ... the fans are fantastic ... yadda yadda yadda.

I believe we made very big mistakes pulling out those games against the Bengals and Patriots. But as a coaching staff, you can't tell your team you are trying to lose. When you win, you build on that momentum, because you can't push the do-over button. Coach Flo did what he needed to do, but in his heart of hearts I'm fairly confident he wishes we had lost those games and gotten the top pick. If we end up trading UP to get a QB, then it will be almost impossible to argue otherwise.

Those meaningless games were counter-productive wins ... not the source of our FA approach. MONEY, no state taxes, and having a ton of draft capital to rebound were the reasons we hauled in the FA class we did. I simply do not believe those wins were the FA's motivations. I think they just said that because it sounds good. And honestly, I'm glad they said that, because it does help build a culture here ... even if 100% of the locker room knows they're simply paying lip service and their real motivations were money and playing time ... which is just another way of saying future money.

I'm a Fitzmagic fan, have been since he was at Buffalo, but him pulling out those two wins really hurt our rebuild plan. It's very similar to the way Matt Moore's late season heroics rallied from the driver seat of Suck for Luck sweepstakes to the Tannehill consolation prize. Sure, it felt good to the locker room at the time, and it helped Moore's career ... but we never rebuilt, in part because we never quite had enough draft capital for our front office to make it work.

Personally, I wish we had lost the Bengals and Patriots games, because those meaningless wins in no way made me feel better about that miserable season, it just stripped away a layer of the silver lining. That's my $0.02 on it. Other opinions may differ.
 
It's the classic Catch-22. Damned if you do damned if you dont. Our team were supposed to tank. They screwed that up. BUT.... they went against the grain and I mean general opinion and media arseholes who had our team as losing on purpose. They didnt. I didnt see half as much media negative crap aimed at the Bengals who are synonymous as losers. Dolphins got slated by so called experts. Our team turned it around 2nd half of season with players I can't even remember coming in and showing up. That's coaching. I'm ok with how the season and off season has turned out. You reap what you sow. Our team never showed a losing mentality and it's got our team very good Free Agents. Now I'm hoping whoever is in charge knows what the freak they are getting paid for because the next 2 drafts we are Gold. Fingers crossed. Been waiting for 35yrs. Good vibes.
 
Digital said:
I love ya bro, but I just don't see it the same way this article does. Here's why.

1. I would MUCH rather have had the 1st pick in the draft, and never needed to trade up and be certain we had a healthy and elite QB. I would have taken Joe Burrow.
2. Byron Jones joined us for one reason ... we offered the most money.
3. Van Noy joined us for two reasons ... we offered the most money AND he knows the system fits him to a T ... well maybe 3, because he knows and likes Coach Flo too.
4. Ted Karras joined us for one reason ... I think we were the only team that even offered him ... and we were definitely the team that offered the most money.
5. Erick Flowers joined us for one reason ... we offered the most money ... and probably too much money if I'm honest.
6. Lawson joined us for 3 reasons ... we offered at least as much money as anyone else, he has a DL coach who knows him and believes in him and can get the best out of him, and he's a mediocre talent going to a place with no competition.
7. Oghba (sp?) joined us for one reason ... we offered the most money.

IMHO, none of these FA's changes their mind if we lost the Patriots and Bengals games. Sure, when they need to justify it, NONE of them are going to be honest and say it is because we offered the most money, that's just human nature. They're going to say what makes them look best, AND most supports their new team and makes them liked in the locker room. Such as they'll say they wanted a ... chance to be a leader ... to be in on the ground floor ... building something great here in Miami ... I'm sucking up to the coach, errrr I mean the coaching staff here is great ... this team has a lot of great players ... we're on the cusp of turning the corner ... the fans are fantastic ... yadda yadda yadda.

I believe we made very big mistakes pulling out those games against the Bengals and Patriots. But as a coaching staff, you can't tell your team you are trying to lose. When you win, you build on that momentum, because you can't push the do-over button. Coach Flo did what he needed to do, but in his heart of hearts I'm fairly confident he wishes we had lost those games and gotten the top pick. If we end up trading UP to get a QB, then it will be almost impossible to argue otherwise.

Those meaningless games were counter-productive wins ... not the source of our FA approach. MONEY, no state taxes, and having a ton of draft capital to rebound were the reasons we hauled in the FA class we did. I simply do not believe those wins were the FA's motivations. I think they just said that because it sounds good. And honestly, I'm glad they said that, because it does help build a culture here ... even if 100% of the locker room knows they're simply paying lip service and their real motivations were money and playing time ... which is just another way of saying future money.

I'm a Fitzmagic fan, have been since he was at Buffalo, but him pulling out those two wins really hurt our rebuild plan. It's very similar to the way Matt Moore's late season heroics rallied from the driver seat of Suck for Luck sweepstakes to the Tannehill consolation prize. Sure, it felt good to the locker room at the time, and it helped Moore's career ... but we never rebuilt, in part because we never quite had enough draft capital for our front office to make it work.

Personally, I wish we had lost the Bengals and Patriots games, because those meaningless wins in no way made me feel better about that miserable season, it just stripped away a layer of the silver lining. That's my $0.02 on it. Other opinions may differ.
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Karras had a multi year offer from the Pats and took less money to be in Miami. Having worked in another professional sport winning is never meaningless people put to much into this all for it to be otherwise. Development and instilling a program/culture are only solidified when you win otherwise you are the lovable losers.

I dont share your opinion, but atleast you are consistent.
 
Dolphinator530 said:
Bettis in Pittsburgh who had 1400+ yards each year
Lamar Smith in Miami
Chris Ivory/31 year old Matt Forte in NY

Why?
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and Emmit Smith in Dallas and Jamaal Charles in KC and Spiller and that other dude in Buffalo, Frank something?

My point is that he always had good RBs and mediocre to crappy QBs. I'm not writing him off, but let's see how he can do in today's NFL without a good RB (unless Howard can have CHI type season or one is drafted) and less than stellar play at QB.
 
Could you imagine Chris Grier sitting in a room with Brian Flores and yelling at him "You're too good at your job, and because of it I have to be good at my job!"

That's basically the equivalent of complaining about Flores winning games he had no business winning.
 
Joe Dolfan said:
and Emmit Smith in Dallas and Jamaal Charles in KC and Spiller and that other dude in Buffalo, Frank something?

My point is that he always had good RBs and mediocre to crappy QBs. I'm not writing him off, but let's see how he can do in today's NFL without a good RB (unless Howard can have CHI type season or one is drafted) and less than stellar play at QB.
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I don’t count Dallas or buffalo because he was the head coach and shouldn’t be labeled responsible for the offensive ranks. I did forget Charles. But in my opinion when you are a ground and pound your ranks and numbers won’t be great because you are a possession type team not a yardage type team. And his QBs were mediocre they were bad and he made them serviceable with scheme
 
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The #1 pick isn't worth nearly as much as having a coach that appears to have "it". Not even close.
We got to see what this coach was made of down the stretch and that has me far more excited than does our first pick. Bad coaches get very little out of good players, and this guy made a respectable competitor out of nobodys.
 
Sarnics13 said:
The #1 pick isn't worth nearly as much as having a coach that appears to have "it". Not even close.
We got to see what this coach was made of down the stretch and that has me far more excited than does our first pick. Bad coaches get very little out of good players, and this guy made a respectable competitor out of nobodys.
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I agree.

Some posters want it both ways. Understandable, but unrealistic.

Others may believe a "franchise" QB can overcome coaching incompetence, which is ludicrous, IMO.

It is what it is. Why keep whining about what has already happened?

We don't know if Flo will be a great, long term HC, but i think the signs are good.

What some refuse to allow themselves to admit, is that we don't know if Tua (or Burrow, or Herbert, or Love for that matter) is a franchise guy either. We don't KNOW about any of it.
 
imo this would be like another team offering a 1st round pick for Flores right now and some fans saying ok sure..Gotta have a bigger picture in mind then what one player can do for you..
 
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