Thought I'd share this/Saints ruin Dolphins draft plans

"FitzMagic"

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Let me know when these guys hit the HOF and we'll talk. But yeah, at the time they still aren't very good picks if you could have gotten him 30 picks later.

I've actually forgiven the Dolphins for reaching in the past. There have been times we have drafted players like Juwan James that didn't knock you're socks off but fills a need. It happens. The most important thing is to build a good team. But this draft wasn't a normal draft. We traded a franchise LT right before the season, knowing that word had gotten out that there would be a "revolt" and that it would not go down well with the current roster. Then after trading Tunsil and getting crushed 59-0 we also "have" to trade away our top 10 pick from the year before who rightfully got disgruntled. Maybe other than Davante Parker (debatable), those two were the most talented players on the roster last year, and they were young and potential building blocks. We ended up with a pick roughly every 20 picks in the draft. This wasn't a usual draft, and we had the ability to maneuver to get almost anyone we wanted. Which is why its inexcusable to repeatedly draft players lower than their draft value. Based on the consensus of information out there, which is not 100 percent but at least generally in the ballpark, which a few major exceptions, nearly every one of our picks after Tua was a reach. That's not acceptable to me.
Preach it brother, saved me the time. What is sad is how fans blindly follow this GM despite NO proof he can get us where we need to be. He did great to get value for a lot of our players. But what good does it do if he can’t draft worth a ****? So tired of hearing how drafts can’t be judged until years down the road. We haven’t drafted well in any year of memory. So when is he on the clock?
 

EJay

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So tired of hearing how drafts can’t be judged until years down the road. We haven’t drafted well in any year of memory. So when is he on the clock?
You're tired of hearing truth, is what your saying. You're clearly a proud card carrying member of the instant gratification crowd.

So let me get this straight, because you feel the franchise hasn't drafted well in recent memory, this draft must be a failure too? Riveting.

Well, hell, I guess the 49ers should give up and not play in 2020 because they didn't win the SB last season and haven't won it in recent memory. Same goes for a vast majority of the NFL's 32 teams. How about you give them all a call and let 'em know that their clock should have already started and expired?
 

phin1984!

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Ruiz and Dobbins are the biggest ones. There's no reason why with owning as many picks as we did that generally every pick we made after Tua was considered a reach. Yes we all know the point in the draft is to get good players and get the pieces you need for a team, but if you're consistently drafting guys 10-15 spots ahead of where they are believed to be valued, then you aren't playing the draft correctly. You And when multiple times guys who would have been great value at the pick at a position of need for us get swooped up by teams who didn't even have a need but were just picking BPA, it's pretty easy to see that us reaching for a player in the follow-up was probably a scramble and a reaction when we were expecting other players to be available.
Nobody knows what their or any other teams boards look like so you can guess by your own estimations
 

joenhre

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Preach it brother, saved me the time. What is sad is how fans blindly follow this GM despite NO proof he can get us where we need to be. He did great to get value for a lot of our players. But what good does it do if he can’t draft worth a ****? So tired of hearing how drafts can’t be judged until years down the road. We haven’t drafted well in any year of memory. So when is he on the clock?
I don't give a frack what past GMs did or what happened under previous head coaches. That doesn't mean a damn thing right now. I will be judging how the players picked under the current regime perform on the field.

You are tired of reading actual logic that a draft shouldn't be judged until we actually see the players on the field? You know what I am tired of? People beating a dead horse while whining about where a player was picked because they weren't on your mock draft or were ranked lower on a list made by some wannabe GM. We get it they didn't pick the players you wanted so the draft is already a failure in your mind.
 
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joenhre

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Nobody knows what their or any other teams boards look like so you can guess by your own estimations
You are 100% correct. Which is why I laugh and shake my head whenever someone says that a player would have been available later. Sure anyone can guess but IMO it is a pointless effort.
 

Sirspud

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Nobody knows what their or any other teams boards look like so you can guess by your own estimations
That's not true. For the most part many teams have a decent idea of what other draft boards look like. Word gets round. Teams spend a lot of time scouting certain players over others. They do more investigation. Executives talk. Some of it is a smokescreen but where there's smoke there's frequently fire. Many of the guys on the outside making mock drafts aren't just doing so based on their own scouting, they are doing so with information they've disseminated from talking to sources around the league since it's a network of people. And that's not to mention that teams know who's been calling who, looking to trade picks or move in the draft. And the teams know way more about this stuff than the experts on the outside do.

You can't tell with certainty where guys are gonna get picked. But except for outliers you can tell the range that player is gonna get drafted in. If you're drafting a guy in the late second who was expected to be a fifth rounder, it's a bad pick, even if you really like the guy. If you draft a guy in the late first who had a third round grade, it's a bad pick.

I don't claim to be a scout, but I've had a pretty good feel for being able to predict whether our first round picks are gonna bust or not after they pick them just based on what the scouts, experts, and team say about them. Charles Harris? Sounded like a tremendous bust. Ryan Tannehill? A guy who was raw and who needed time to develop QB skills and shouldn't be rushed into starting (we rushed him into starting). Juwan James? Overdraft. A guy who can do alright but doesn't necessarily have first round upside. Jason Allen? A college coach drafting a player who was good in college who doesn't have a position. Jared Odrick? Meh. Ted Ginn Jr? Lacked the full skillset needed to be a top wide receiver and not worth a high first round pick (presumably family not included in evaluation). John Beck? Bad coach trying to outsmart the field and create a QB prospect. Chad Henne? Never elevated his game in college despite opportunities.

Anyways, we can agree to disagree. But I'm not gonna shut up about what Flores & Co. did to this roster for the sake of draft capitol. They are the ones who sold everything and imposed the lofty expectations upon themselves to hit a home run in the draft. To me that fly ball looks like it died in the wind and won't even reach the warning track.
 

Awsi Dooger

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The way the board was falling I expected Ruiz to be the pick...until the Saints shocked me by taking him. I believe Ruiz would have been the pick. It simply makes more sense than anything else. I always prefer logic above inside information. Everybody who has inside information prefers to believe their inside information is the actual inside information, while everything else is garbage. Meanwhile they have no idea, as evidenced by all the claims once the offensive coordinator was surprisingly fired after the season.

The Dolphins center position was overrated in 2019. It doesn't matter if a player surpasses expectation. The coaching staff will recognize if he is any good or not. A competent staff, anyway. The center position has tremendous recent history of first round picks fully panning out. I posted that related link prior to the draft.

If it had been Ruiz then that throws the next pick into question, because taking Hunt would mean three consecutive offensive linemen. Do they do that? I like Hunt. I also like the fat Georgia guard who has some limitations but if you can get that low hanging belly in shape you probably have something.

So overall I'm not irritated at losing Ruiz. These offensive linemen were more logical choices than anything seen here in a decade or more, including the less than inspiring Deiter choice last season.

The Auburn cornerback has lots of nice things said about him. Fine. I don't pretend to know much about him. First round cornerbacks don't thrill me right now. Too many recent busts in that late first round range. I didn't pay much attention to him once I noted he didn't like to turn around and find the football. That's a much greater weakness in pros than college.
 

EJay

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I didn't pay much attention to him once I noted he didn't like to turn around and find the football. That's a much greater weakness in pros than college.
It indeed seems to be a weakness, no doubt. However, one of Flores strengths seems to be developing players at that position. He has a track record of doing so while at NE and now in MIA with seemingly less physically talented players. So I like his chances to improve upon that weakness in Igbinoghene‘s game.

Let’s also remember, Igbinoghene was a 4 star WR coming out of HS and was converted to DB while at Auburn. A position he hadn’t played since JR. HS.

He’s come along quite well considering and his potential ceiling might well be higher than the typical draftee since he’s still a bit green for the position. But he is already pretty darned good. Good enough that MIA liked him at 30 and a few other teams were reportedly quite interested around the same position.
 

"FitzMagic"

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You're tired of hearing truth, is what your saying. You're clearly a proud card carrying member of the instant gratification crowd.

So let me get this straight, because you feel the franchise hasn't drafted well in recent memory, this draft must be a failure too? Riveting.

Well, hell, I guess the 49ers should give up and not play in 2020 because they didn't win the SB last season and haven't won it in recent memory. Same goes for a vast majority of the NFL's 32 teams. How about you give them all a call and let 'em know that their clock should have already started and expired?
Instant gratification? Is this a joke? Name a great draft we have had? What does SF, a team of relevance have to do with us, a mediocre franchise for over 20 years?
Instant gratification indicates I want it now. Well since we haven’t done jack since the 70’s and 80’s I think I have been pretty patient, lol.
Teams like SF hit greatness come back down and reach for it again while we swim in a pool of mediocrity.
 

Wildbill3

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heh. In reality, the saints got screwed because they couldn't trade down, because we would've picked their prize. Sounds like the dolphins ****ed up the saints draft, not the other way around.
 

"FitzMagic"

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I don't give a frack what past GMs did or what happened under previous head coaches. That doesn't mean a damn thing right now. I will be judging how the players picked under the current regime perform on the field.

You are tired of reading actual logic that a draft shouldn't be judged until we actually see the players on the field? You know what I am tired of? People beating a dead horse while whining about where a player was picked because they weren't on your mock draft or were ranked lower on a list made by some wannabe GM. We get it they didn't pick the players you wanted so the draft is already a failure in your mind.
The GM has been here for 20 years and has the stench of losing on him whether you and others are too blind to see it. So what draft is he responsible for? Two years ago? Last year? we can certainly judge him. Do you like Geisicki over Goedert and Andrews? Just one example. Look he has done some good things but that is largely due to bad contracts, bad drafts, bad FA signings, letting our own players get away, etc... that he was a part of!!
I like the direction we are going but don’t think he is the guy that can get it done in the end due to his poor drafting. Who has he drafted of note other than Tunsil (fell into his lap), Howard and Fitzpatrick (traded) that is All Pro caliber?
You know what I am tired of? Sunshine Pumpers that have never seen this franchise and in particular Grier be successful but yet blindly buy in and give him a pass after past failures. Pathetic
 

joenhre

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The GM has been here for 20 years and has the stench of losing on him whether you and others are too blind to see it. So what draft is he responsible for? Two years ago? Last year? we can certainly judge him. Do you like Geisicki over Goedert and Andrews? Just one example. Look he has done some good things but that is largely due to bad contracts, bad drafts, bad FA signings, letting our own players get away, etc... that he was a part of!!
I like the direction we are going but don’t think he is the guy that can get it done in the end due to his poor drafting. Who has he drafted of note other than Tunsil (fell into his lap), Howard and Fitzpatrick (traded) that is All Pro caliber?
You know what I am tired of? Sunshine Pumpers that have never seen this franchise and in particular Grier be successful but yet blindly buy in and give him a pass after past failures. Pathetic
How many of those 20 years were with the current head coach and assistant GM? I don't care what he did with previous coaching staffs since there were so many different variables involved that are irrelevant to the current situation. I am judging the drafts that have been done with Grier, Flores and Allen working together. Not agreeing with the conclusion that the 2020 draft is already a failure is not blindly buying in. It is dealing with the reality that Judging a draft before any of those players has played a single down in the NFL is pointless.
 
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