Tight Ends... in general

[djphinfan]

Neither of us were on the Pitts bandwagon. We need a guy that can really block. He also has to be an adequate receiver. Kittle is great at both. I’d be satisfied with a Freiermuth or a Witten. I think they are 3 guys in the draft that would fit what we need…Mayer, Washington, and Laporta.

Dalton Kincaid is right there with those guys

 

[djphinfan]

D.Washington is a 3rd tackle on the field.He is equally good in pass pro as arun blocker.
He can be used as lead blocker,backside seal anywhere.in addition red zone nightmare
watch his film

Just not sure that’s what we want or what I would want..

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Two things separate the top TE’s in the league from their peers - physicality and change of direction. Those are the traits that separate Kelce, Kittle and Goedert.

It’s not catch radius or anything anecdotal like the traits Gesicki possesses. It’s things that are consistent and reliable play after play. They also have great hips and play with tremendous pad level.

The issue with Darnell Washington is that he doesn’t have great hips. He can’t separate and change direction like those guys.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

The problem you run into in terms of blocking with most TE’s and a lot of offensive lineman is they want to stand straight up. We used to call it “titty blocking”. You stand straight up and try to rub tits with the guy across from you instead of staying low and firing out.

Jeff Stoutland is the best OL coach I’ve ever seen in terms of remedying those issues. It’s the pad level that the Philadelphia Eagles OL and TE’s block with that makes them the best in the league because of Stoutland.

It was the same when he was at Alabama coaching OL under Saban before he left for Philly years ago.

 

[Kebo]

Washington will never be a great receiver, but what makes him special is his blocking. He doesn’t get separation, but he is such a big guy, that he is open even when he is covered. He can box out like a basketball player.

 

[utahphinsfan]

In his 1st mock, Daniel Jeremiah (NFLN) had 3 TE's going in the 1st round

Kincaid to the Chargers, Mayer to the Jags, & Washington to Cincy.

Kincaid improved his stock this yr, but, IMO would still be a reach at the bottom of round 2

No one is tlking about LaPorta from Iowa which baffles me.

The all-time University of Iowa NFL team features two Hall of Fame safeties & a Pro Bowl tight end - Sports Illustrated Talk Of Fame Network

There have been 13 tight ends drafted from Iowa since 1958 -- all made their drafting teams and five went to Pro Bowls.

www.si.com

Since 1958, there have been 13 tight ends drafted by the NFL out of Iowa. All made their drafting teams and all caught passes in the NFL except one, Austin Wheatley, a fifth-round pick by the New Orleans Saints in 2000. He was the only Iowa tight end to play fewer than three NFL seasons. His career lasted one year.

Jonathan Hayes (1985, second round, Kansas City) played 12 seasons and Dallas Clark (2003, first round, Indianapolis) and Jim Gibbons (1958, sixth round, Detroit) 11 seasons apiece. Scott Chandler (2007, fourth round, San Diego) played nine seasons, Brandon Myers (2009, sixth round, Oakland) eight seasons and Marv Cook (1989, third round, New England) seven. Tony Moeaki (2010, third round, Kansas City) played five seasons and Scott Sluztker (1996, third round, Indianapolis) and C.J. Fiedorwicz (2014, third round, Houston) four seasons apiece.

 

[jimthefin]

We have talked about this before but Darnell Washington should put on some weight and move to OT.

I think he is better suited for OL and the $$$$ is better too.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Neither of us were on the Pitts bandwagon. We need a guy that can really block. He also has to be an adequate receiver. Kittle is great at both. I’d be satisfied with a Freiermuth or a Witten. I think they are 3 guys in the draft that would fit what we need…Mayer, Washington, and Laporta.

LaPorta is who I immediately thought of reading this thread. I think he's projected more in that 2nd/3rd round range. So really not a sleeper, but I think potentially a nice fit.

Washington is such a great blocker that I think you'd have to strongly consider him if he fell to 53. I've mostly seen him mocked top 35ish, but maybe his lack of speed drops him a little.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Tucker Kraft is another to keep an eye on. Not Kittle, but he can block and I think be an intermediate threat.

 

[Feverdream]

In his 1st mock, Daniel Jeremiah (NFLN) had 3 TE's going in the 1st round

Kincaid to the Chargers, Mayer to the Jags, & Washington to Cincy.

Kincaid improved his stock this yr, but, IMO would still be a reach at the bottom of round 2

No one is tlking about LaPorta from Iowa which baffles me.

The all-time University of Iowa NFL team features two Hall of Fame safeties & a Pro Bowl tight end - Sports Illustrated Talk Of Fame Network

There have been 13 tight ends drafted from Iowa since 1958 -- all made their drafting teams and five went to Pro Bowls.

www.si.com

That's an awful lot of 1st round TEs, and honestly, I'd be shocked. I know that many people want the next Kelce or Kittle... but going 3 deep looking for him... seems like a major reach.
I'm not sure there are 15 teams in the NFL that could even take advantage of a really high end TE... hell, most of the glamorous TEs are essentially slot receivers anyway.
Thinking about Miami's situation... If we had a 1st rate traditional Y-style TE, how many fewer passes would Hill and Waddle see? Would that even be wise? I'm not sure that I'm convinced that it would be.
...and wouldn't a Y-style TE just mean more running plays?

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Mixed feelings on Luke Musgrave. Lance Zeirlein has him as his TE1, and I asked him how he feels about Musgrave's blocking. LZ says he's a better blocker than Kincaid and LaPorta and has better technique than Washington - but noted that Washington is such a monster that he's the more effective blocker.

Musgrave is said to run a 4.51 - and is also expected to excel in the agility tests and to do well in the jumps.

For me, TE goes:

1. Athleticism
1a. Blocking
3. Catching
4. RAC

It's 4 that has me kind of iffy on him. He goes down very easily. He runs high, and his stop-start on the field doesn't match his projected testing. So, I think of him kind of like Gesicki if he could block. That would be an upgrade, but you'd like a guy who would take advantage of the RAC this offense should provide its TE's.

I think Isiah Oliver should be at the top of Miami's FA wishlist fwiw.

 

[utahphinsfan]

That's an awful lot of 1st round TEs, and honestly, I'd be shocked. I know that many people want the next Kelce or Kittle... but going 3 deep looking for him... seems like a major reach.
I'm not sure there are 15 teams in the NFL that could even take advantage of a really high end TE... hell, most of the glamorous TEs are essentially slot receivers anyway.
Thinking about Miami's situation... If we had a 1st rate traditional Y-style TE, how many fewer passes would Hill and Waddle see? Would that even be wise? I'm not sure that I'm convinced that it would be.
...and wouldn't a Y-style TE just mean more running plays?

I thought 3 was a bit much also. I can see Mayer going in rd 1 but thats it.

Wondering?

1) I don't know if McD's scheme resembles McVay or Kyle S?

2) If McD's scheme is like Kyle's then how much did the acquisition of Hill delay the master plan?

3) Just had this thought... Did having Tyreek possibly delay the development/use of Ezukanma?

p.s. I'd rather the phins be Niners east than Patriots south.

 

[Feverdream]

I thought 3 was a bit much also. I can see Mayer going in rd 1 but thats it.

Wondering?

1) I don't know if McD's scheme resembles McVay or Kyle S?

2) If McD's scheme is like Kyle's then how much did the acquisition of Hill delay the master plan?

3) Just had this thought... Did having Tyreek possibly delay the development/use of Ezukanma?

p.s. I'd rather the phins be Niners east than Patriots south.

I think my concern about drafting a TE early in a deep group is mostly about value. Having defined 1A and 1B receivers, how many targets are left to spread around, and would a second day draftee add enough value to the offense to justify the expense. Honestly, I'm thinking not, especially with the well known tendency of young TEs taking a few years to blossom.
I'd rather give Long a real chance and go bargain hunting in the draft. Trading down a bit from one of our 3s could facilitate this.

 

[Crump]

Remember all the people who were screaming for us to draft Kyle Pitts? Several people swore he was a top 5 kind of pick.
I always thought he had a slot TEs game... like Gesicki. I think I was right on that one.
Our offense is premised upon having a traditional TE type, but most of those guys don't have the requisite deep speed to become elite.

not a draft expert by far, i only scout one team and they've had like 10 people go pro this decade. In defense of Pitts people (cant remember if i was on waddle or smith wagon), we ran a different offense and just were looking for a playmaker, potential matchup nightmare, not a Kittle type. So at the time, Pitts might have not have been a horrible pick for us, since we had no weapons... in this offense he would be a horrible 1st rounder.

I personally think Connor is useless. Any snaps that he gets should be going to EZ or Wilson. If they want to keep him and develop so we can have a poor bankrupt in debt a million dollars version of MikeG, then cool.

But i guess roll with Smythe, Long, a late round pick (that has all the developmental tools you want), then maybe take Alec Ingolds usage up a bit and see if he can line up inline (that may be a stupid thought, if so then disregard nicely)

 

[Feverdream]

not a draft expert by far, i only scout one team and they've had like 10 people go pro this decade. In defense of Pitts people (cant remember if i was on waddle or smith wagon), we ran a different offense and just were looking for a playmaker, potential matchup nightmare, not a Kittle type. So at the time, Pitts might have not have been a horrible pick for us, since we had no weapons... in this offense he would be a horrible 1st rounder.

I personally think Connor is useless. Any snaps that he gets should be going to EZ or Wilson. If they want to keep him and develop so we can have a poor bankrupt in debt a million dollars version of MikeG, then cool.

But i guess roll with Smythe, Long, a late round pick (that has all the developmental tools you want), then maybe take Alec Ingolds usage up a bit and see if he can line up inline (that may be a stupid thought, if so then disregard nicely)

I think we're largely in agreement here.

Conner is NOT a Y-type TE, he's a slot type TE, and shouldn't see a high snap % in this offense.
Smythe outsnapped Gesicki because even though he isnt nearly as talented, he is a Y-type TE.