To Trade, Or Not To Trade X | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

To Trade, Or Not To Trade X

DolfanDuBbZ~ said:
It wasnt ignored, because it had zero bearing on the talking points last year when the rumor mill cranked up in KC and the NE media corridor.

KC fans and talk radio locally were making the exact same talking points and yet we see the results moving forward.

My point stands, if you rebuild this team right, you do it inside out. A CB with 1 solid year, and heading into a contract year should be sold off for future considerations if the circumstances allow it. You will win in this league by scoring points first and foremost.

And pure numbers between the 2 CBs, especially head to head on their 1st 3 years....shows one who actually deserved the debate and another slightly held up on a hometown pedestal by the faithful.
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Hmmmm his antics/immaturity had no bearing on the talking points of trading him, you say:

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/kansas-city-chiefs-very-unhappy-marcus-peters

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arrowh...t-wrong-marcus-peters-kansas-city-chiefs/amp/

https://www.12up.com/posts/5889429-...-emerge-as-to-why-marcus-peters-was-suspended

Not to mention he also has some immaturity issues in college:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/23259443

Also, if you’re talking about numbers when it comes to X and Peters, I hope you’re going to come with something more than just INTERCEPTIONS, because the CB position is much more than just interceptions.
 
I think you keep X. If we hit on a QB, our playoff window starts immediately because a good QB on a rookie contract is a tremondous advantage.

I think you trade him when this magical QB's contract comes up and there is a cap crunch.
 
I just don't like his resume for that type of contract. Revis was not an elite recruit either. But he was an immediate star as a freshman at Pittsburgh, and it was quickly obvious he would depart after three seasons.

Howard redshirted as a freshman. That's where I get very nervous. If you are a special player it should be evident very early in college, with the coaches wanting you on the field immediately. Obviously there are exceptions. But paying a guy this type of money is an exception also. I'm not doing it with someone who did not stand out in college until his redshirt junior season in college. Far too much danger that he levels off and is more of a talker than Pro Bowler or above.

How would Xavien Howard be viewed right now if Josh Allen didn't miss those two simple touchdown passes in the home game against the Bills? Howard would have been victimized both times and he basically wasn't in the vicinity either time.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
How would Xavien Howard be viewed right now if Josh Allen didn't miss those two simple touchdown passes in the home game against the Bills? Howard would have been victimized both times and he basically wasn't in the vicinity either time.
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Look who's adjusting...
 
LargoFin said:
The question is the cost. There is a pay point at which he is too expensive, and it is better to trade him than to pay or lose him to free agency.
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I guess the question, then, what is that point? I don't know if Lionstone's 15 mil is going to do it. The top four corner contracts are 14+.

I think X is a top 5-7 cover guy, and also makes big plays, but 16 mil per yr it a boatload.

Just out of curiosity, what are people's opinion on his play when asked to jam at the Los, bump and run? I know we don't do it much. I always liked that style, but you have to have the horses to roll that way.
 
I think you sign X. He’s a young cornerstone player at a premium position.

I’m not signing James especially if my goal is the LH Tua. No thanks having James protect my franchise blind side. I’m not fan of James regardless. Too inconsistent.
 
Lovethefish said:
I think you sign X. He’s a young cornerstone player at a premium position.

I’m not signing James especially if my goal is the LH Tua. No thanks having James protect my franchise blind side. I’m not fan of James regardless. Too inconsistent.
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Excellent point about RT/LH.

The thing is, if you let JJ walk, then what? We have another hole. Do you use a topvdraft pick? I don't really want to do that. Any FA tackle available will be of comparable skill, and will cost roughly the same as James.
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He's not horrible, but you do have to give him help against the elite pass rushers.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I just don't like his resume for that type of contract. Revis was not an elite recruit either. But he was an immediate star as a freshman at Pittsburgh, and it was quickly obvious he would depart after three seasons.

Howard redshirted as a freshman. That's where I get very nervous. If you are a special player it should be evident very early in college, with the coaches wanting you on the field immediately. Obviously there are exceptions. But paying a guy this type of money is an exception also. I'm not doing it with someone who did not stand out in college until his redshirt junior season in college. Far too much danger that he levels off and is more of a talker than Pro Bowler or above.

How would Xavien Howard be viewed right now if Josh Allen didn't miss those two simple touchdown passes in the home game against the Bills? Howard would have been victimized both times and he basically wasn't in the vicinity either time.
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What the heck does him redshirting as a freshman in college have to do with his longevity as a franchise player? Hes been very good since he got to Miami. Even as a rookie he was shutting down #1’s, then broke out in his second year. This season just reinforced what he did last year. 11 interceptions in 2 seasons, 2 times going multiple ints in back to back games, again over 2 seasons.

He’s not a flash in the pan player, he’s proven what he’s needed to.
 
PAphins said:
What the heck does him redshirting as a freshman in college have to do with his longevity as a franchise player? Hes been very good since he got to Miami. Even as a rookie he was shutting down #1’s, then broke out in his second year. This season just reinforced what he did last year. 11 interceptions in 2 seasons, 2 times going multiple ints in back to back games, again over 2 seasons.

He’s not a flash in the pan player, he’s proven what he’s needed to.
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Yeah, that redshirt freshman comment was a bit of a stretch to be basing a major decision on.

X is a great player. Is he 16 mil great? Maybe, with the right contract structure. I don't want to be paying "dead money" 2 years after he's gone.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't have a problem with paying him. I surely didn't want to give Landry what amounts to the same contract though.
 
You don't trade your best players. We've gone down that road before and it never ended well. CB is one of those positions that are very high value, right up there with LT and maybe just behind QB and pass rushers. If you get a dominant guy there, you make sure you keep him. This talk of trading Xavien Howard only makes sense if Ross is serious about tanking the 2019 season to get a total bottom-up rebuild in 2020, starting with a franchise QB. I'm OK with that, but I'd rather keep Howard as replacing him is nearly impossible.
 
finitis23 said:
Hmmmm his antics/immaturity had no bearing on the talking points of trading him, you say:

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/kansas-city-chiefs-very-unhappy-marcus-peters

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arrowh...t-wrong-marcus-peters-kansas-city-chiefs/amp/

https://www.12up.com/posts/5889429-...-emerge-as-to-why-marcus-peters-was-suspended

Not to mention he also has some immaturity issues in college:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/23259443

Also, if you’re talking about numbers when it comes to X and Peters, I hope you’re going to come with something more than just INTERCEPTIONS, because the CB position is much more than just interceptions.
Click to expand...


I'll just start with his Rookie of the Year award. His 1st team ALL PRO nod, his 2nd team ALL PRO nod. His numbers you dont want to compare, as there is really no comparison, one made ALL PRO the other had a career year and got his 1st PB Volleyball nod this year.

As for issues in College, so did Hill and Hunt.

And KC sports radio did not play on those concerns. Their lines were hot because fans were saying the same stuff many are now saying here. Dont get it twisted, that fanbase did not want him to leave and they were hot when he did.

Again, a case can be made with a straight face and credibility of trading away a young CB in today's NFL. Especially since we just seen it happen last year.
 
I'm not anti Xavien, I'm just voicing my opinion on how I would like to see them move forward.

While in that draft I wanted Cody Whitehair, and was no real fan of a Baylor CB in the 2nd...he has surpassed my expectations and hes shown growth over the 3 years he has been here.

But he hasn't been pure lockdown. And #1 money says you better be lockdown and you better have a healthy record of it.

Either way, if your going to sign him, you do it this offseason with the new HC blessing. If the money is too rich, move him and get top end return. This team is now more than ever FINALLY about the out years.
 
The whole thing is what do other players think of him. The guy has talent, does he have what it takes to built a defense around,? The things we do not see on the field. Does he help other players? Do his teammates respect him a person? You can be the greatest talent in the world ,but you are just 1 of 11 on the field if you are just a talented meat head. That is what I want to know about X
 
TedSlimmJr said:
No, mediocrity is a habit.

Losing is the only way for bad teams to become good teams in the NFL quickly. It's the way the league is set up. Like you, I don't subscribe to the spirit of tanking. But in the NFL, I certainly subscribe to the logic of it. You're either getting better or getting worse in the NFL, and neither lasts very long.
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If you take look at the sustained successful franchises - there are 1 of 2 constants:
1. Elite QB play: NE PITT NO SEA INDY GB might be missing one or two. OR
2. The team bottoms out and often this leads to at least solid QB and more talented roster: Philly - Rams- Browns -
The rest of the league is mired in mediocrity:
Dolphins. Bengals. Bills Denver Titans Giants (mistake not to take QB)
Cardinals (we see)
In end. QB QB QB.
So folks- accept 2-14. It’s really lot better than another 15 years of 8-8.
 
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