Tony Pauline says Chase doesn’t get past Fins at 3.

[hoops]

RT here. I think you see enough stuff that translates. Good base, good awareness, anchors, finishes blocks. Think you'd have a physical ride side with him and Hunt.

so here’s another question. You don’t think between this guy, radunz, and eichenberg you can land a starting right tackle option at pick 50? Especially considering that these guys look like right tackle only types.

 

[Coach_Rob]

Sure, let's actually start in reverse. There have been a LOT of WR's who were successful in college without the mass to succeed in the NFL. Guys like Tavon Austin who have simply been manhandled because they were too skinny and despite absolutely elite separation skills, quickness, and speed, were utterly useless at the NFL level. Generally there's a minimum weight/muscle mass of at least 185 lbs. Typically, the taller you are, the more muscle mass you require, which is why someone like Tyreek Hill can get by with less muscle mass than someone like Mike Evans. Davonta Smith is 6'1, which is on the taller side, but he's probably closer to 165 than even 175. Now, hopefully he's trying to add 25 or 30 lbs. of muscle to his frame, but that's a LOT of muscle and probably will significantly affect his speed and quickness. But, without it, he's likely to be manhandled and rendered far less effective as a pro.

Simply put, Ja'Marr Chase at 6'0 and 208 lbs. is a beast who is likely not going to have a problem with the extremely physical nature of NFL CB's, so his game translates to the pros far better than smaller, skinnier guys like Davonta Smith, Jalen Waddle, or Rondale Moore (who is majorly injury-prone). Simply put, if any of these guys could duplicate their collegiate success at the NFL level they'd be absolutely stellar NFL prospects. My preference is for the kid whose physical profile and skill set most reliably projects to the NFL level.

We saw it just last year with Henry Ruggs III, who was the first WR selected, yet was not as good as 2nd rounders who were bigger like Chase Claypool and Tee Higgins. When Odell Beckham Jr. exploded it hailed a victory for the smallish fast WR, but Beckham was 5'11 and 200 lbs. He wasn't really small. Most NFL receivers are at least 190 lbs., and at 200, Beckham was big enough to endure the physicality of the league. Smith is listed at 175 lbs ... and really he's closer to 165 at his Alabama playing weight, which is what you see on film. If Smith could do what he does at 200 lbs., I'd be 100% on board with him ... but the projection is that he can not. Thus we will not see the play that won him the accolades in college.

Ja'Marr Chase's 2019 film is unbelievable, he shows speed and acceleration in pads, run after catch elusiveness, great hands, physical strength at the catch point, good understanding of space in routes and after the catch, and durability. He's strong and thick, so he can make the jump up in competition. It's not that the film of Smith isn't spectacular to watch .... it's just that it's not representative of the NFL. It's a bunch of skinny kids who only spend a few hours a day working on their craft as they grow into their bodies. The NFL is full of guys who devote 10 hours a day every day for years into their craft, and have bodies that are rock freakin' solid of pure muscle, and all of them are bigger and faster than the guys in college ... and in the NFL, they think the game many times faster and more complex and holistically than the kids in college. Defenses are complex and QB's don't have time to let a WR play games vs. a weak CB. Chase can consistently win, giving his QB a window on time within the framework of an offense.

Hope that explains why I'm so high on Ja'Marr Chase as compared to all the other prospects.

i appreciate you taking the time to write that up, and respect your opinion

 

[Coach_Rob]

Did you watch LSU's title season?

im not saying the kid isnt talented. I've been going back and forth throughout the process with who fits what we need now. they all three have their strengths. the only thing I don't like about chase is his lack of separation.

 

[hoops]

I keep hearing folks say Justin jefferson was the best wr on that lsu offense in 2019 and maybe he was. That’s much easier to say after he just came off a rookie of the year caliber rookie season in the nfl no doubt. But allow me to say that the vikes offense features slot like skill set on tbe boundary. He and theilen aren’t your traditional boundary’s by any means. And their offensive concepts again even on the boundary favor slot like skill set. So keep in mind boundary in Minnesota.

but and this is more a discussion than any I’m right you are wrong why in 2018 when chase wasn’t a starter would they feature jefferson on the boundary primarily and in 2019 when chase a first year starter true sophomore shows up on the field push jefferson inside if he was the best wr and the offense ran thru him?

now what I’m sure some will tell me is that the lsu offense ran thru the slot with Brady and burrow. Well I will say that the lsu offense ran tight formations and splits. Even with the boundary. Jefferson’s usage became highly slot based not so much your traditional 2 way go but slot concepts none the less. Why would he be the option to kick inside for a first year starter in chase if he was the best option?

chase sheer strength translates to the slot as well as his run thru contact and physicality. Hmmm.

is it possible he was just the better boundary option head to head? I know Terrace Marshall doesn’t play into this cause the only thing he saw was scraps.

 

[juniorseau55]

Sure, let's actually start in reverse. There have been a LOT of WR's who were successful in college without the mass to succeed in the NFL. Guys like Tavon Austin who have simply been manhandled because they were too skinny and despite absolutely elite separation skills, quickness, and speed, were utterly useless at the NFL level. Generally there's a minimum weight/muscle mass of at least 185 lbs. Typically, the taller you are, the more muscle mass you require, which is why someone like Tyreek Hill can get by with less muscle mass than someone like Mike Evans. Davonta Smith is 6'1, which is on the taller side, but he's probably closer to 165 than even 175. Now, hopefully he's trying to add 25 or 30 lbs. of muscle to his frame, but that's a LOT of muscle and probably will significantly affect his speed and quickness. But, without it, he's likely to be manhandled and rendered far less effective as a pro.

Simply put, Ja'Marr Chase at 6'0 and 208 lbs. is a beast who is likely not going to have a problem with the extremely physical nature of NFL CB's, so his game translates to the pros far better than smaller, skinnier guys like Davonta Smith, Jalen Waddle, or Rondale Moore (who is majorly injury-prone). Simply put, if any of these guys could duplicate their collegiate success at the NFL level they'd be absolutely stellar NFL prospects. My preference is for the kid whose physical profile and skill set most reliably projects to the NFL level.

We saw it just last year with Henry Ruggs III, who was the first WR selected, yet was not as good as 2nd rounders who were bigger like Chase Claypool and Tee Higgins. When Odell Beckham Jr. exploded it hailed a victory for the smallish fast WR, but Beckham was 5'11 and 200 lbs. He wasn't really small. Most NFL receivers are at least 190 lbs., and at 200, Beckham was big enough to endure the physicality of the league. Smith is listed at 175 lbs ... and really he's closer to 165 at his Alabama playing weight, which is what you see on film. If Smith could do what he does at 200 lbs., I'd be 100% on board with him ... but the projection is that he can not. Thus we will not see the play that won him the accolades in college.

Ja'Marr Chase's 2019 film is unbelievable, he shows speed and acceleration in pads, run after catch elusiveness, great hands, physical strength at the catch point, good understanding of space in routes and after the catch, and durability. He's strong and thick, so he can make the jump up in competition. It's not that the film of Smith isn't spectacular to watch .... it's just that it's not representative of the NFL. It's a bunch of skinny kids who only spend a few hours a day working on their craft as they grow into their bodies. The NFL is full of guys who devote 10 hours a day every day for years into their craft, and have bodies that are rock freakin' solid of pure muscle, and all of them are bigger and faster than the guys in college ... and in the NFL, they think the game many times faster and more complex and holistically than the kids in college. Defenses are complex and QB's don't have time to let a WR play games vs. a weak CB. Chase can consistently win, giving his QB a window on time within the framework of an offense.

Hope that explains why I'm so high on Ja'Marr Chase as compared to all the other prospects.

I couldn't agree more with you about the size argument. As I was watching some games, and watching college film I couldn't help but to see how fast players in the NFL explode out of the line of scrimmage. This should be common sense for everyone here but once you put it into perspective you start seeing some trends at the end of the day. The first trend is that wide receivers who have monster college seasons.

Before Smith we know someone by the name of Corey Davis. Not even a 1,000 yard season yet, but he was a monster in college. The Titans picked him 5th, and while he hasn't been a bust, he quite simply never lived up to him being picked that high. In fact, all wide receivers picked in the first round in the 2017 draft never lived up to their hype, and were outperformed vastly by the receivers picked in the 2nd, and 3rd round. Godwin, Juju, and a few others were available in later rounds.

2015 Amari Cooper (last pro bowl receiver picked in the 1st round prior to Jefferson) Success 1st round, everyone else 1st round average.
2016: Average 1st round, and then you got your Michael Thomas 2nd round.
2018 Ridley, and Moore have been studs, They were both drafted after the first 20th picks.

2019 No one was a hit in the first round .

2020 Justin Jefferson stud picked after the 20th picks, and first pro bowl receiver in the first round since... AMARI COOPER IN 2015.


Spending the number 3 overall even on chase as much as I like him is statistically a bad investment for any team, and on Smith it would be even worse. College success doesn't translate to NFL success the way you
see it unfold while watching college games. There is a reason why teams pass on these guys in favor for others.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

You already know his answer

I’ve said this at least 100 times but I don’t care who Miami or anybody else picks in the draft. But if you’ve paid any attention my answer isn’t going to change. If you’re picking at #3 the only way to maximize that pick is by taking a quarterback.

The generational left tackle and linebacker talk at #3 is some of the dumbest sh*t I’ve ever heard.

 

[hoops]

I’ve said this at least 100 times but I don’t care who Miami or anybody else picks in the draft. But if you’ve paid any attention my answer isn’t going to change. If you’re picking at #3 the only way to maximize that pick is by taking a quarterback.

The generational left tackle and linebacker talk at #3 is some of the dumbest sh*t I’ve ever heard.

sorry he gave you 3 options. Out of those I was sure you’d pick slim reaper.

and yes I understand the value of the qb top 5. But miamis betting on tua and a year ago so were you so given that you can leave out the dumbest stuff you’ve ever heard and tell us you stuck at 3 who you taking?

as for the lb thing look I will be the first to tell ya I wouldn’t be there with a top 5 pick unless I thought the kid was as rare as they come from a talent perspective. And you know I’ve looked at kids for a long time and I also know what lb play looks like hell it’s one of my pet peeves outside of bad qb play and I’ve never seen in all that time a kid as talented as micah parsons. Football character I agree with ya thats for them to figure out but pure talent and upside never seen it. Not in no damn true sophomore

 

[juniorseau55]

I’ve said this at least 100 times but I don’t care who Miami or anybody else picks in the draft. But if you’ve paid any attention my answer isn’t going to change. If you’re picking at #3 the only way to maximize that pick is by taking a quarterback.

The generational left tackle and linebacker talk at #3 is some of the dumbest sh*t I’ve ever heard.

So Mac isn't a generational Qb?

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I keep hearing folks say Justin jefferson was the best wr on that lsu offense in 2019 and maybe he was. That’s much easier to say after he just came off a rookie of the year caliber rookie season in the nfl no doubt. But allow me to say that the vikes offense features slot like skill set on tbe boundary. He and theilen aren’t your traditional boundary’s by any means. And their offensive concepts again even on the boundary favor slot like skill set. So keep in mind boundary in Minnesota.

but and this is more a discussion than any I’m right you are wrong why in 2018 when chase wasn’t a starter would they feature jefferson on the boundary primarily and in 2019 when chase a first year starter true sophomore shows up on the field push jefferson inside if he was the best wr and the offense ran thru him?

now what I’m sure some will tell me is that the lsu offense ran thru the slot with Brady and burrow. Well I will say that the lsu offense ran tight formations and splits. Even with the boundary. Jefferson’s usage became highly slot based not so much your traditional 2 way go but slot concepts none the less. Why would he be the option to kick inside for a first year starter in chase if he was the best option?

chase sheer strength translates to the slot as well as his run thru contact and physicality. Hmmm.

is it possible he was just the better boundary option head to head? I know Terrace Marshall doesn’t play into this cause the only thing he saw was scraps.

It really just depends on the game in terms of who was better between the two. It’s not as if one was miles better than the other. But I was extremely high on Jefferson prior to the draft and doesn’t really have anything to do with what he did as a rookie.

Lining up on the outside doesn’t make you better. It’s just a different skillset really.

The best receiver at Alabama typically changed from game to game when Jeudy, Smitty, Waddle, Ruggs and the whole gang was there with Tua. But Smitty always had the best hands of any of em and could play all of Alabama’s receiver spots. He was 1A at worst no matter where he lined up. Alabama’s OC never had a problem lining Smitty up on the opposing defense’s best CB even when he was a freshman. They knew that matchup favored the offense - whether it was Daboll, Locksley or Sarkisian.

 

[dol-phan007]

Most scouts (not all, but most) seem to think Ja'Marr Chase is the best WR prospect in the last few years, and the best in this draft. I agree. Still, I think trading down to 6 or 8 we'd still either get Chase or Smith. If we use the pick at #3, I'd take Chsae, but I'd rather trade back a tad and pick up a 2nd rounder.

If we trade to 6 or 8 I want at least a 2nd this year and a 1st next year. I dont care about the comp chart. If a team wants to move up to 3, they need to give us more than the value. I'm not trading back for and even point swap.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

sorry he gave you 3 options. Out of those I was sure you’d pick slim reaper.

and yes I understand the value of the qb top 5. But miamis betting on tua and a year ago so were you so given that you can leave out the dumbest stuff you’ve ever heard and tell us you stuck at 3 who you taking?

as for the lb thing look I will be the first to tell ya I wouldn’t be there with a top 5 pick unless I thought the kid was as rare as they come from a talent perspective. And you know I’ve looked at kids for a long time and I also know what lb play looks like hell it’s one of my pet peeves outside of bad qb play and I’ve never seen in all that time a kid as talented as micah parsons. Football character I agree with ya thats for them to figure out but pure talent and upside never seen it. Not in no damn true sophomore

I know you haven’t watched nearly as much college football as you think you have. Yeah I know that for a fact. Because I have and I know how much time it takes to do it.

If you’ve never seen a linebacker as talented as Micah Parsons then you just flat out missed em. That’s the bottom line.

QB@3 has nothing to do with betting on Tua. It’s about maximizing the pick and making sure you have a quarterback. Period. That’s the best thing to do with the pick and it don’t matter about the Tua feelings. It’s just smart drafting. They didn’t think they would be picking at 3.

If you’re going to avoid QB at any cost and that’s your strategy then you try your best to trade out of the pick.

If you stay at #3, I say quarterback.

 

[hoops]

It really just depends on the game in terms of who was better between the two. It’s not as if one was miles better than the other. But I was extremely high on Jefferson prior to the draft and doesn’t really have anything to do with what he did as a rookie.

Lining up on the outside doesn’t make you better. It’s just a different skillset really.

The best receiver at Alabama typically changed from game to game when Jeydy, Smitty, Waddle, Ruggs and the whole gang was there with Tua. But Smitty always had the best hands of any of em and could play all of Alabama’s receiver spots. He was 1A at worst no matter where he lined up. Alabama’s OC never had a problem lining Smitty up on the opposing defense’s best CB even when he was a freshman. They knew that matchup favored the offense - whether it was Daboll, Locksley or Sarkisian.

we aren’t talking about Alabama and if we were I’d probably take issue with any 1a since he got there stuff with smitty considering I didn’t see a whole lot of help played that way early. Not that it matters now cause the last 2 years he and waddle have shown their versatility and development as players.

but that’s another topic for another time

 

[hoops]

I know you haven’t watched nearly as much college football as you think you have. Yeah I know that for a fact. Because I have and I know how much time it takes to do it.

If you’ve never seen a linebacker as talented as Micah Parsons then you just flat out missed em. That’s the bottom line.

QB@3 has nothing to do with betting on Tua. It’s about maximizing the pick and making sure you have a quarterback. Period. That’s the best thing to do with the pick and it don’t matter about the Tua feelings. It’s just smart drafting. They didn’t think they would be picking at 3.

If you’re going to avoid QB at any cost and that’s your strategy then you try your best to trade out of the pick.

If you stay at #3, I say quarterback.

lol always come back to form slimm. Thanks for that

 

[dol-phan007]

Getting 2 of Pitts, Smith, Waddle, and Chase would be my dream scenario for Miami. I feel good about all their talent and the likelihood they play well early. I have combos I prefer, but getting premium weapons is always good.

Imagine that and a RB in the second along with a top wr in free agency. Omg I'd love that.

 

[Dynastybuilder]

I know a few DB's who would probably disagree with the notion that Chase is the best WR prospect in the last few years. So much so that they don't even understand how it could be a legitimate conversation.

I'll say this, there's not a cornerback in the NFL that could shut down Jerry Jeudy or DeVonta Smith one-on-one. Now whether you can get 'em the ball or not is a different story entirely. I think even Elway gets it now. But just in terms of route running and staying with the guy and covering him - there's nobody that can do that to Jeudy or Smitty. Maybe a Jalen Ramsey or somebody like that might have a shot on a good day. Just in general, absolutely not. There's no way.

You can't really say that about Ja'Marr Chase. And he is a talented receiver.

With Jeudy they just have to stay close enough to scare him into dropping it. Smitty doesn't really drop much so it really depends on how he is vs post catch contact at the next level. Such a risk at #3.