Top 5 (offense) | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Top 5 (offense)

How did Andrew Luck look throwing at the Combine? Only the network people complain about QB's skipping the passing portion of the combine. During games - when it matters - Carr and Bortles were the least accurate QB's from 11-20 yards (64.29% compared to Bridgewater's 68.49% and Manziel's 70.51%). On passes over 20 yards, Bridgewater falters at 50.82%, and Bortles is 2nd best at 54.76%. Carr, though, is again the worst at 44.23% - compared with Manziel's 55.84%. You have fun with your shots in the dark. I'll take the guys who can actually play the QB position.

You make fair points but the difference between college and the NFL is a gaping chasm, as I alluded to before there are exceptional college QBs who just aren't 3rd string NFL caliber. Exceptional college production does not mean the player will be exceptional in the NFL. How much of that 70 odd % of Manziel came from completions outside the pocket? How much of that 55% were wild tosses for Mike Evans to drag down? These are things NFL scouting departments will be looking closely at and as has been reported in the media many of them do not have a first round grade on Johnny Football.

Bridgewater is a very solid prospect, but you can't teach size (and remember, people like Rusell Wilson and Drew Brees are exceptions that prove the rule - size matters at the QB position) - which Bortles has - Bridgewater needed to tick every box in the run up to the draft to solidify himself as a top 10 pick, but has fallen at a few hurdles so don't be surprised if he falls on draft day in what many are calling one of the deepest drafts in history.

College completion rates just don't mean anything at the next level, because at the next level you aren't playing against college level talent - that's the reason why players who have been some of the best players in college history, like Tim Tebow, are now out of the game, and the reason why most scouts project a Bortles or a Carr as much better prospects for the NFL - the qualities they have simply project to greater NFL success compared to a Manziel, awesome as he was in his college career.
 
I'm assuming Colt Lyerla is off your board? He's got some problems..but I would definitely be digging into him with an interview, coaches, etc. Pure football standpoint I think he's better than Ebron personally. We're talking about a kid who may go undrafted and has top 20 talent all day.
I'd risk it
 
You make fair points but the difference between college and the NFL is a gaping chasm, as I alluded to before there are exceptional college QBs who just aren't 3rd string NFL caliber. Exceptional college production does not mean the player will be exceptional in the NFL. How much of that 70 odd % of Manziel came from completions outside the pocket? How much of that 55% were wild tosses for Mike Evans to drag down? These are things NFL scouting departments will be looking closely at and as has been reported in the media many of them do not have a first round grade on Johnny Football.

Bridgewater is a very solid prospect, but you can't teach size (and remember, people like Rusell Wilson and Drew Brees are exceptions that prove the rule - size matters at the QB position) - which Bortles has - Bridgewater needed to tick every box in the run up to the draft to solidify himself as a top 10 pick, but has fallen at a few hurdles so don't be surprised if he falls on draft day in what many are calling one of the deepest drafts in history.

College completion rates just don't mean anything at the next level, because at the next level you aren't playing against college level talent - that's the reason why players who have been some of the best players in college history, like Tim Tebow, are now out of the game, and the reason why most scouts project a Bortles or a Carr as much better prospects for the NFL - the qualities they have simply project to greater NFL success compared to a Manziel, awesome as he was in his college career.

No, Tim Tebow is out of football because he wasn't a very good QB that could only run one type of offense. It had nothing to do with his completion percentage. Just watch Bridgewater's ball placement. Ignore his 70+% completion rate. Just LOOK at his elite ball placement and accuracy.

When most people talk about Wilson and Bree's "size" they're almost always referring to their height. Both are under 6 feet tall. Bridgewater was a legit 6'2" at the combine and weighed in at 214 lbs which was under the 220 lbs he played at while here in Louisville. Sure his frame is slight but the kid is still just 21 years old. The only injury he ever had in college was due to an illegal horse collar tackle in the UConn game his sophomore year and that was a broken non-throwing hand and a badly sprained ankle. He came in the next game against Rutgers on those injuries and lead the team to victory. He then went to the Sugar Bowl, got popped in the mouth by Jon Bostic, got up, and on the next play (3rd and 15) threw an 18 yard strike into a mailbox across the middle for first down.

Sure you can't teach "size" but you also can't teach toughness. Bridgewater's size is just fine.

I can understand if you don't think Bridgewater is an elite prospect, everyone has their own opinion. But at least base your opinion on something credible.
 
No, Tim Tebow is out of football because he wasn't a very good QB that could only run one type of offense. It had nothing to do with his completion percentage. Just watch Bridgewater's ball placement. Ignore his 70+% completion rate. Just LOOK at his elite ball placement and accuracy.

When most people talk about Wilson and Bree's "size" they're almost always referring to their height. Both are under 6 feet tall. Bridgewater was a legit 6'2" at the combine and weighed in at 214 lbs which was under the 220 lbs he played at while here in Louisville. Sure his frame is slight but the kid is still just 21 years old. The only injury he ever had in college was due to an illegal horse collar tackle in the UConn game his sophomore year and that was a broken non-throwing hand and a badly sprained ankle. He came in the next game against Rutgers on those injuries and lead the team to victory. He then went to the Sugar Bowl, got popped in the mouth by Jon Bostic, got up, and on the next play (3rd and 15) threw an 18 yard strike into a mailbox across the middle for first down.

Sure you can't teach "size" but you also can't teach toughness. Bridgewater's size is just fine.

I can understand if you don't think Bridgewater is an elite prospect, everyone has their own opinion. But at least base your opinion on something credible.

The way bridgewater has been treated by fans, bloggers, and media types, is IMO the craziest thing I've seem in this hears draft.

Dude is either not talked about at all, or he's talked about like he's garbage. It's ridiculous, and makes no sense. It's like being a good kid, a ridicukously hard worker, with not many weaknesses, and clearly being one of the best qbs last season, is hurting him. Media talks about every qb, But him.
 
To reiterate, I don't think Bridgewater is a bad prospect, he's certainly not "garbage" and when I talk about his size I'm merely just comparing him to a Bortles who is 3 inches taller. If Bortles does indeed go higher in the draft as Bridgewater, as looks likely, there will be reasons why.
 
I don't think there's much to say about his pro day. If you were an NFL General Manager, would the pro day really change your mind one way or another? If I have serious concerns about how well he will hold up in the NFL (mentally and physically), a nice showing at his pro day doesn't convince me to draft him. If I think he's just got whatever that X-Factor is that makes some guys great, it doesn't matter how bad he looked at his pro day, I'd still draft him. If I have both the serious concerns and the expectation that he's got that X-Factor... then it depends on who's on the board and how badly I need a starting QB, now doesn't it?

The way bridgewater has been treated by fans, bloggers, and media types, is IMO the craziest thing I've seem in this hears draft.

Dude is either not talked about at all, or he's talked about like he's garbage. It's ridiculous, and makes no sense. It's like being a good kid, a ridicukously hard worker, with not many weaknesses, and clearly being one of the best qbs last season, is hurting him. Media talks about every qb, But him.

I think what we're seeing right now is rooted in two things:

1. Johnny Football is a guy you either love to love, or love to hate.
2. Bridgewater was the consensus media #1 pick for so long that they got tired of him.

I think that Teddy Bridgewater will be the #1 pick in the draft and we're just overthinking things. Kind of like in 2012 when you just knew Andrew Luck was going to be first overall, because there's no way the Colts would be that stupid, right? And then we got all the talk about Griffin and even the rumors that Griffin could go #1 overall. Yeah, right.
 
Surprised no one on this board has even referenced Manziel's Pro Day.

Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline 16 hrs

@Hummer53 its inside and they're blaring music as he workouts....sadly they are not playing Led Zeppelin...5th rounder on my board now..
 
Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline 16 hrs

@Hummer53 its inside and they're blaring music as he workouts....sadly they are not playing Led Zeppelin...5th rounder on my board now..

As a lover of jazz, blues, and rock from the 20s to present day, Led Zeppelin is one of the most overrated, worthless bands of all time. Talent show, dungeons and dragons bull ****. If he had said the Stones or Velvet Underground, I might have given that a half-chuckle.
 
I don't think there's much to say about his pro day. If you were an NFL General Manager, would the pro day really change your mind one way or another? If I have serious concerns about how well he will hold up in the NFL (mentally and physically), a nice showing at his pro day doesn't convince me to draft him. If I think he's just got whatever that X-Factor is that makes some guys great, it doesn't matter how bad he looked at his pro day, I'd still draft him. If I have both the serious concerns and the expectation that he's got that X-Factor... then it depends on who's on the board and how badly I need a starting QB, now doesn't it?



I think what we're seeing right now is rooted in two things:

1. Johnny Football is a guy you either love to love, or love to hate.
2. Bridgewater was the consensus media #1 pick for so long that they got tired of him.

I think that Teddy Bridgewater will be the #1 pick in the draft and we're just overthinking things. Kind of like in 2012 when you just knew Andrew Luck was going to be first overall, because there's no way the Colts would be that stupid, right? And then we got all the talk about Griffin and even the rumors that Griffin could go #1 overall. Yeah, right.

For me, the Pro Day didn't do much. I've been saying that his arm is more than good enough and that he has the best down-field accuracy of any QB in this class - and that he has elite intangibles. But there have been many posts that question these very things - along with his general ability as a passer. And when comparing his Pro Day to Bridgewater's, I do think it should factor in to some extent. During the season, Manziel more accurate down the field than Bridgewater. You can say that it's not that important, but Ryan Tannehill. Also, Manziel owned his Pro Day, showed the dynamic leadership qualities (whether or not you like him) that you want to see. Bridgewater either shrank in the moment, had a bad day, or raised some red flags about his throwing ability. They don't do these for nothing. Now, I still like Bridgewater an awful lot, but for most people, it should make them reconsider some things. You can't teach a guy to be a star. And for those on the board that have been consistent in their preference for Tannehill over Manziel, it should change a hell of a lot.
 
For me, the Pro Day didn't do much. I've been saying that his arm is more than good enough and that he has the best down-field accuracy of any QB in this class - and that he has elite intangibles. But there have been many posts that question these very things - along with his general ability as a passer. And when comparing his Pro Day to Bridgewater's, I do think it should factor in to some extent. During the season, Manziel more accurate down the field than Bridgewater. You can say that it's not that important, but Ryan Tannehill. Also, Manziel owned his Pro Day, showed the dynamic leadership qualities (whether or not you like him) that you want to see. Bridgewater either shrank in the moment, had a bad day, or raised some red flags about his throwing ability. They don't do these for nothing. Now, I still like Bridgewater an awful lot, but for most people, it should make them reconsider some things. You can't teach a guy to be a star. And for those on the board that have been consistent in their preference for Tannehill over Manziel, it should change a hell of a lot.

Considering what Bridgewater has done in the big games while here at Louisville makes be believe it was a bad day. They guy has shown up and shown up in all the big games we've had over past 3 years. You don't beat a good Rutgers defense on a bad wheel and a bad wrist on primetime without being a straight up baller. From his first real game at UK in a hostile enviornment his freshman year to the bowl game against Miami, the kid has been there every single time he's been called.
 
For me, the Pro Day didn't do much. I've been saying that his arm is more than good enough and that he has the best down-field accuracy of any QB in this class - and that he has elite intangibles. But there have been many posts that question these very things - along with his general ability as a passer. And when comparing his Pro Day to Bridgewater's, I do think it should factor in to some extent. During the season, Manziel more accurate down the field than Bridgewater. You can say that it's not that important, but Ryan Tannehill. Also, Manziel owned his Pro Day, showed the dynamic leadership qualities (whether or not you like him) that you want to see. Bridgewater either shrank in the moment, had a bad day, or raised some red flags about his throwing ability. They don't do these for nothing. Now, I still like Bridgewater an awful lot, but for most people, it should make them reconsider some things. You can't teach a guy to be a star. And for those on the board that have been consistent in their preference for Tannehill over Manziel, it should change a hell of a lot.

Agree about Led Zep, TBH. As for Manziel's deep ball, Pauline has it right when he says they "float".......effectively he doesn't have a deep ball that will work in the NFL, let alone facing some of the conditions he will when playing in December. Again, comes down to having a skillset for College ball but not one for the next level.
 
Agree about Led Zep, TBH. As for Manziel's deep ball, Pauline has it right when he says they "float".......effectively he doesn't have a deep ball that will work in the NFL, let alone facing some of the conditions he will when playing in December. Again, comes down to having a skillset for College ball but not one for the next level.

i'm not a bang the table for manziel guy but those deep balls float alright...drop in like as if on a pillow in stride and out in front...hard to criticize his vertical placement and accuracy imo...

on a different note bridgewater goes thru his progressions much better than manziel and he will stand in the pocket...reads the field better to...manziels more of a playmaker outside the traditional pocket...and he will bolt a clean pocket when he just doesnt need to...

there's no tannehill level guy in this class...closest thing is bridgewater
 
Last edited by a moderator:
i'm not a bang the table for manziel guy but those deep balls float alright...drop in like as if on a pillow in stride and out in front...hard to criticize his vertical placement and accuracy imo...

on a different note bridgewater goes thru his progressions much better than manziel and he will stand in the pocket...reads the field better to...manziels more of a playmaker outside the traditional pocket...and he will bolt a clean pocket when he just doesnt need to...

there's no tannehill level guy in this class...closest thing is bridgewater

At this stage, Bridgewater definitely goes through his progressions better, but when you look at the progression from 2012 to 2013, I think he's on the track for success in that department. Manziel also sees the field better than just about anyone (at any level) when the play breaks down.

---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

Agree about Led Zep, TBH. As for Manziel's deep ball, Pauline has it right when he says they "float".......effectively he doesn't have a deep ball that will work in the NFL, let alone facing some of the conditions he will when playing in December. Again, comes down to having a skillset for College ball but not one for the next level.

That's really cute.
 
What limits does Bridgewater have that Brotles does not? He's bigger physically. So? The question is can Brotles be taught how to run a pro style offense making all of the checks and progressions that are necessary in an NFL style offense. Bridgewater has done that for 2+ years in a pro style WCO. Bridgewater already does most everything an NFL QB does from a mental standpoint already, and it never went out the window when he stepped on the big stage. His arm is plenty strong enough and his mechanics are already better than Brotles. Brotles may have a stronger arm, but he doesn't get as much as he can out of that arm due to inconsistent mechanics.

You do realize that UCF uses a pro-style offense, right? Their coaching staff has a lot of ties to the NFL and Bortles also has a higher ceiling than Bridgewater does. Bortles has been developed in a pro offense since he got to UCF and also made drastic improvements because of that development.

1. Bortles
2. Bridgewater
3. Manziel
4. Carr
 
Back
Top Bottom