Training Camp Day Two Updates | Page 14 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Training Camp Day Two Updates

I get folks feeling bad that Rosen hasn't outperformed Fitz so far, and yes, spring ball is a big deal. But young QBs are that way. Sometimes they play poorly early on and then the lights come on at some point. And given what Rosen's been through, I don't think of him as much different from a rookie. It's wait and see and there's nothing for it.
 
Anyway, Slimm is 100% right about Fitz starting just going off his salary. Well, almost 100% right. Draft-pick value also factors into it. But a guy with Fitz's salary vs a 2nd round investment... 2nd round QBs aren't expected to start right away (speaking of rookies, anyway).

I'd be shocked if Rosen starts more than 8 games this year. Could be less, but probably no fewer than 4. That gives him a few more months to work on his game and get ready. Because if he doesn't show something when gets on the field, this forum is going to go nuts. And me along with it.
 
ckparrothead said:
I'll be staring off in the distance at Juan Thornhill and Chase Winovich, wondering.

Until they flame out and then it'll be like nah, no big.
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I couldn't help but think about Winovich when we traded that pick for Rosen. We came back and drafted Van Ginkel, a similar but less effective player who relies almost exclusively on scheme to generate pressure. I'm going to be comparing those two (Winovich went to the Patriots so same system) for the rest of their career, and whenever people talk about taking a flier on Rosen … that's going to be my litmus test. Sure, if Rosen is the real deal, its all good, regardless. But if not, then I can't help but wonder how much better we would be with Winovich than Van Ginkel. There's a lot more to see from this decision before any determination can be made … but we'll all be watching.
 
ckparrothead said:
I get it, but what I don't think you're getting is there are only 6 more of these practices until the scrimmage, and then 2 more until the preseason game. And there have already been that many days of OTA and Mini Camp practices.

People don't realize, to the coaching staff, we are probably about 50% of the way through the off season program, even if we're only through with about 15% of the camp practices before they get into a regular season practice schedule (which happens the week leading up to the dress rehearsal 3rd preseason game).

The future is now and the clock is ticking. If you're Josh Rosen you can't afford to be of the mindset that it's alright if you start out slow because you've got plenty of time. He doesn't.
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At the end of the day Rosen is competing to start … regardless of whether that means starting game 1 of the regular season, game 5, or sometime after that. For the coaching staff to pull Fitz when he struggles--and history suggests he will--the coaching staff needs to have some stretch of film that leads them to believe Rosen can do it.

So, even if Rosen isn't impressive enough to win the job for game 1 of the regular season … he needs to put some good plays in the coaches minds now to plant the seed that he can be good down the road. Then he needs to make some plays during preseason to fuel that belief. If he does that … then when the time comes to yank Fitzmagic--and it will come--the coaching staff will have enough confidence in Rosen's potential to give him a shot. But if he continues to look second best … he may not get that shot until game 12.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
So you're fooled too, eh?

You think that the light switch just went on in year ELEVEN as a starter for Fitzpatrick? You're going to really sit here trying to convince people that the Fitzpatrick of a 3 game sample size at 36 years old is the REAL Fitzpatrick, and not the one that has played for and been cut by team after team after team for a reason? Come on...

"At the first sign of him fading back to his normal self..."

After those first 3 games you mentioned, over the next 5 games he went 0-5 with 6 TDs, 8 INTs throwing for under 200 yards in 60% of those games. That's not "at the first sign". That's almost a third of a season of playing like he usually does.

If people want to start Fitzpatrick so they can get the Matt Moore treatment of 8 years ago, then whatever. It's a desire to shoot yourself in the foot so I'll never understand it.
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Let's take a step back for a second and think about Fitzpatrick. The book on him is pretty simple.

He is a gunslinger.

That means he makes crazy-ridiculous plays and has insanely good games, often by forcing things. But, he also is his own worst enemy and has some real howlers of games.

Now he's a veteran, and his year in TB was quite simply, very good. Not without flaws, but he was definitely a good QB, and if his name had been Winston or Mariota or Darnold, people would be over-hyping him as one of the best QB's in the NFL. He's not. But, he didn't have as many horrible games with TB as he has at various other stops. He was pulled in large part because he is old and Winston is young … not because Winston was better. There was no future with Fitz, and the coach knew that if he didn't take advantage of the chance to bring Winston back in, he might lose his job … which he lost anyway. Who did they replace him with? The guy who personally vouched for their #1 overall QB selection Jamies Winston. Go figure … a GM who doubled-down on his choice of talent. …….. shocker.

But, Fitz is learning to lessen his bad habits, and his arm is still lively, and his feet are still plenty spry. Yes, he's old and that limits his future and upside, but it is reasonable to assume that he's improving and reducing his flaws. The good plays are there for everyone to see … if he can curb those atrocious plays/games … then he'll finally reach the level everyone always hoped he would attain.

Regardless, someone else will be the chosen one QB for Miami in 2020, whether that's Rosen or Fromm or Tua or Herbert … who knows. But we do know that Flores isn't hitching his wagon to Fitz long-term. So Fitz needs to ball out, and then become the veteran who helps groom young QB's, because he's destined for the backup QB role in Miami in 2020, or the emergency acquisition elsewhere.
 
Bruh Man said:
Congemi definitely has an agenda. Rosen hasn't separated from Ruddock?

Who in the media or at practice seconds this?
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I thought that was an odd comment as well.

I haven't been there to see it with my own eyes, but have followed a lot of the social media feeds, as well as reading articles from the commin sites, and that was the first I've heard of anything even remotely indicating that Ruddock was anything more than an afterthought.
 
@Banksy good job starting the conversation

Look forward to more threads from you in the future

:up:
 
If I’m the head coach at this stage I would give a **** who’s the younger guy or the one with more potential or what is best for the franchise long term. There’s time to worry about that but that time is not now. Heck I might not even be here this time around next year. So right now I’m playing the guy who I think is the best QB we have on the roster. Because I want to win football games. That’s all I care about at this point. So I don’t care who it is. if Fitzparick is better he’s my guy, if Rosen is better then he’s my guy. If Jake Ruddock is...yeah, I’ll stop right here. Simple as that.
 
ya know its the only thing ill agree with Omar about ever, and well because hell other posters have said it here and added more to it. The team will turn and quit if Josh starts over RF when RF is outplaying him. but we've had a million conversations on Rosen vs RF. my stance will stay the same, i wanted to draft Rosen last year (didnt want him bad enough to say we needed to trade up for him, but wanted him to fall to us), i really think we need to see him play some, but at the same time we need to see the other 50 non QB's on the roster play. it is harder to judge, the other 10 starters on offense effiecently if the players they are playing with arent the lead at their spot.

we see Mike G make the leaping one handed catch in shorts, well when the pads come on and the W's count, do we know if hes going to make that same catch if a lesser QB is throwing the ball. Who knows maybe DVP is really getting seperation we didnt notice or could make the acrobatic catch across the middle RT just never looked at him or had the anticipation. maybe what appears to be a cruddy oline that everyone is complaining about we are lining up right now, might be able to hold their own if we have a QB with more pressence, making them look better, saem with the RB's if teams are scared of the pass, does this not make the RB's better? (in all cases in the league except the Giants, Barkley is just insane).

nothing ive read so far makes it sound like Rosen is having a bad camp after 2 days and OTA's, just that Fitz is playing lights out. but thats Fitz, when the lights come on, he's going to be Marino one game, then Jim Drunkenmiller the next. Just ready to start reading todays reports when the pads come on. I dont know how it is in the pro's, these guys have been doing it for years and to alot its just a business, but its like my HS coach said every year for 4 straight years...at the end of our last shells practice after the first week (always a sat morning one), "your dicks should be hard from now until monday, you get to hit the asshole who is trying to upstage you in shorts"
 
https://www.lockedondolphins.com/dolphins/miami-dolphins-2019-training-camp-journal-day-2-july-26/


Most disparaging of all, Josh Rosen had a dreadful day from the word go. In the first individual period, the QBs ran a simulated pressure drill throwing to any one of three stationary coaches placed evenly across the field (left sideline, middle hashes, right sideline).

After the quarterbacks climbed from the top of their drop, a coach would verbally instruct the QB which target to shoot for. Fitzpatrick executed the drill, Rudock did the same, and Rosen sailed a throw.

Travis Wingfield confirmed it

Alf from 5 reason glossed it over
https://www.fivereasonssports.com/news/quickie-dolphins-camp-notes-day-2/

John Congemi report didn't sound like an agenda to me - reported what he saw and felt about things, all these reports have some differences of opinion and he gave his, he is around these guy's more than any other reporter-host, better access. All seem to agree Rosen has a problem throwing on the move, hopefully he gets it worked out.
 
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