Training Camp Updates - Day Five | Page 22 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Training Camp Updates - Day Five

I'm just here to say that I wouldn't wish an 0-16 season on anyone. That's sad... going 1-15 vs going 0-16 is a huge difference to me. Lets win a game, at least.
 
I believe that the point he’s trying to make is that while it’s not an exact science, and there are going to be failures, that the scouting department is probably smarter and a lot more reliable than your average jackhole on a message board.
People claim that, but there is really little evidence that, with all the money and time invested by all of these organizations, that they are any better at selecting players than the average draftnik. The only real advantage an organization has over people like us, is that they get to meet with the players personally and they get to know all of their transgressions behind the scenes.
 
People claim that, but there is really little evidence that, with all the money and time invested by all of these organizations, that they are any better at selecting players than the average draftnik. The only real advantage an organization has over people like us, is that they get to meet with the players personally and they get to know all of their transgressions behind the scenes.

If this is your genuine contention, I’m going to disagree as politely as I can. That’s just hubris of the first order. If your line of thinking is that sometimes the GM or the person calling the shots on draft day can be a moron in spite of their scouting department, I can get behind that a lot more easily.
 
I don't understand how you can enjoy watching football with that attitude. Only 1 team wins the Superbowl each year, and it's been the Pats for a **** ton of them lately. A season isn't a failure just because you didn't win the Superbowl or make the playoffs.

I think that as whoever plays best should start, whether it's Fitz, Rosen, or Ruddock (lol). If Rosen isn't good enough to start by Week 17, then we have our answer on his long term viability.

It seems like the vocal majority on this site want either 19-0 (win SB) or 0-16 and anything inbetween isn't good enough for them, like it's their own personal Madden Franchise lol
I enjoy watching football when it looks like the Dolphins are a threat to win every Sunday, no matter the opponent even if they don't end up doing so.
I enjoy watching football when a big, Nationally televised game is coming up that means something in the grand scheme of things and we play well, even if we lose at the end.
I enjoy watching football when it looks like the team is constantly improving so that the future actually looks bright and we MIGHT have a team that looks like it could actually compete for a Super Bowl, even if we don't end up winning it.

Do I need to win a Super Bowl to have a lot of fun watching a season? Absolutely not, but when was the last time any of my previous statements applied to the Dolphins?

This franchise has beaten the hope and standards out of most of the fan base for so long that you'll accept mediocrity because the table scraps that you get on Sundays is all you're going to get and people will constantly delude themselves into thinking that the garbage that they watch is actually fun. You forgot what fun actually is. You forgot what being competitive looks like, so we'll have a bunch of practice reports where Rosen overall looks like the same guy we've started for the past decade and fans will cling to the one tweet where he made a good throw and twist it as hope for the future. The same excuses will be constantly thrown at him for all the reasons why he doesn't look good: new teammates, offensive line, new coaching staff, new system... the same variables that Fitzpatrick is dealing with while he continues to show how there's no actual competition because he plays well in spite of all of them.

I just want better.
 
Unless you viewed Rosen as an elite QB prospect, which would have been a mistake, you knew he had a greater chance to fail than to succeed - particularly on a bad team. But, unless you really hated his game, you also thought he had a chance. Most QB prospects have no chance. So, getting a QB with a chance for a late 2nd is, and always was, a good bet - even if he's more likely to fail. If you had a 1 in 100 chance of winning a million dollars and only had to spend $100 to buy the ticket, you'd love those odds - even if you lose 99 out of 100 times.

I would have liked to see Miami prioritize the OL so that he'd be in a better position to give you a true read on his abilities, and both Lindstrom and Dillard (my two favorites) are having strong camps, but it is what it is.
 
I don't understand how you can enjoy watching football with that attitude. Only 1 team wins the Superbowl each year, and it's been the Pats for a **** ton of them lately. A season isn't a failure just because you didn't win the Superbowl or make the playoffs.

I think that as whoever plays best should start, whether it's Fitz, Rosen, or Ruddock (lol). If Rosen isn't good enough to start by Week 17, then we have our answer on his long term viability.

It seems like the vocal majority on this site want either 19-0 (win SB) or 0-16 and anything inbetween isn't good enough for them, like it's their own personal Madden Franchise lol
The Dolphins have had about 2 seasons of enjoyable football since Wannestadt was the coach. If I have to endure another dreadful season it's no biggie, I have been doing that for the last 2 decades. I have no problems winning just a couple games if it gets us a shot at a premier qb prospect. I miss the years of competitive football, when the Dolphins were always at least a playoff team. It's just not enjoyable anymore going out seeing other fans cheering for their playoff teams while I sit around pondering New Years resolutions. Yeah I'm all in for one more year of incompetence for a shot at stability and sanity.
 
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So just to get caught up on other items:

Today was the first practice since we fired the OL coach and apparently it was clearly our best practice for the OL

We first teamed Dieter at LG, kicked Davis out to RT and threw the big boy Holden in at RG. Hopefully this group can gain some consistency.

RT Mills has been pretty awful this far from what I have heard. Reed has been meh ok but glad to see them throw the rook in there.

Again a lot of versatility here but no solid performers outside the LT yet.

Finally someone brought this up!

This news was the highlight of the day for me. It seems in the past that prior coaches were unwilling to make changes. I saw a lot of stubbornness between Philbin and Gase. I had a certain expectation (and hope) that this would come to fruition with Dieter at least getting snaps at LG. I sort of expected/hoped that the line would end up as Guge changed it up yesterday. Especially with Davis getting a shot at RT and not getting stuck in mediocrity at RG.

LT Tunsil
LG Dieter
C Kilgore
RG ?
RT Davis

I just wanted to see some competition in the middle. I had little hope for the journeymen like Reed and Mills. It was good to see Calhoun get a shot with the 1's but I was not even familiar with Holden so we'll see what happens.

There was some pre-camp hype by the media for Sterup to get snaps at RT but I had always heard he was a more natural LT and now he is running second teams reps at LT....so that makes sense.

As far as the other theme in this thread about winning/losing etc. I am just hoping to see development and better coaching this year. I don't have a lot of hope either way for W/L. I want to see a more physical OL (and team) and see 5-6 guys working as one. I want a more disciplined team that doesn't make stupid penalties. That is the Flores theme so we'll see if he can accomplish it.

We probably don't have enough talent or depth to win many games but as far as draft position next year, they will just have to do what they have to do to get their QB. Philly maneuvered up from 13 to get their guy so maybe we will too. I am not expecting to draft that low but who knows? Same goes for Rosen's development. We will just have to hope that several teams at the top of the draft already drafted a QB and hope that not too many teams that are in the QB market don't get in front of us.

It's hard to say what will happen for at least 3 positions on the OL in camp but one of the future starters may not even be on the team yet. I'm sure there is better depth on other teams with better quality on the line. Waiting for that quality backup who sits behind a couple All-Pros.
 
People claim that, but there is really little evidence that, with all the money and time invested by all of these organizations, that they are any better at selecting players than the average draftnik. The only real advantage an organization has over people like us, is that they get to meet with the players personally and they get to know all of their transgressions behind the scenes.

Lemming Drops!

Imagine the large ego and low football IQ of someone who's emotions and typically very LIMITED player knowledge are used to select players based on the persons personal likes and desires, who then states that his selections are the only way to go. I am not talking about someone's opinion, but I am talking about player selections presented as an absolute truth that brooks no other possibilities.

Then imagine this persons response, after claiming his selections are the only ones to go with; when a real team with people whose jobs are on the line, doesn't make those selections. The poster then goes on a rant using some computer game as support for his selections. I've seen this occur too many times for it to be a unique or isolated occurrence.

Three years later after most of his selections are no longer in the NFL while the teams selections are still playing he will still be making player selections using his same old ineffective method and claiming he is right and the team scouts are idiots.

Imagine how someone like this might respond to a post like mine.

I don't consider this trolling because it gives me NO PLEASURE to deal with these folks so full of hyperbole they distract from posts that are at least well reasoned and supported, where possible, by some fundamentally accurate information.

Sometimes we need to address all this hyperbole in a clear and straightforward manor. That is what my post is all about.

This is my opinion and not based on any computer game.
 
If this is your genuine contention, I’m going to disagree as politely as I can. That’s just hubris of the first order. If your line of thinking is that sometimes the GM or the person calling the shots on draft day can be a moron in spite of their scouting department, I can get behind that a lot more easily.
I can name more than a handful of posters on this site alone who's track record regarding player evaluations that I would put up against, not only Miami's front office, but most of the front office's in the NFL.
 
This board doesn’t realize how much competition you are gonna have for tua if he comes out. But you will realize it if you don’t land the top overall pick.

By then probably gonna be too late. A qb needy team lands that pick they aren’t trading it

Look at that bama schedule they gonna roll through that thing like a hot knife thru butter. Unless the o line play is uneven which I guess could be possible.

Pretty much same thing Clemson has to watch out for. Waltz thru the acc otherwise
 
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I enjoy watching football when it looks like the Dolphins are a threat to win every Sunday, no matter the opponent even if they don't end up doing so.
I enjoy watching football when a big, Nationally televised game is coming up that means something in the grand scheme of things and we play well, even if we lose at the end.
I enjoy watching football when it looks like the team is constantly improving so that the future actually looks bright and we MIGHT have a team that looks like it could actually compete for a Super Bowl, even if we don't end up winning it.

Do I need to win a Super Bowl to have a lot of fun watching a season? Absolutely not, but when was the last time any of my previous statements applied to the Dolphins?

This franchise has beaten the hope and standards out of most of the fan base for so long that you'll accept mediocrity because the table scraps that you get on Sundays is all you're going to get and people will constantly delude themselves into thinking that the garbage that they watch is actually fun. You forgot what fun actually is. You forgot what being competitive looks like, so we'll have a bunch of practice reports where Rosen overall looks like the same guy we've started for the past decade and fans will cling to the one tweet where he made a good throw and twist it as hope for the future. The same excuses will be constantly thrown at him for all the reasons why he doesn't look good: new teammates, offensive line, new coaching staff, new system... the same variables that Fitzpatrick is dealing with while he continues to show how there's no actual competition because he plays well in spite of all of them.

I just want better.

This is well articulated IMO -- in refection of the frustration and (even further) disillusion my yammie Dolphins fans have endured for way too many years. And for those of us old enough to directly remember the glory days (which essentially consisted entirely of the Shula era) it's a very bitter pill to swallow year in and year out when the once "amazing franchise" produces dysfunctional results worthy of vomiting.

All we have right now is HOPE. And it pretty much hinges on Flores and the staff he's assembled, along with (2 flippers crossed) what Chris Grier has done with the FO.

That said, I am at this point very optimistic and willing to be patient. But at the same time, the nagging bad football karma of Ross the Clown still invades my Dolphins dream...

All we can do is give the process some time and watch for positive results.

Enjoy!

Hopefully!

BNF
 
Look at that bama schedule they gonna roll through that thing like a hot knife thru butter. Unless the o line play is uneven which I guess could be possible.

With that schedule, ANYONE could play QB for them. Why should we want their OVERRATED guy?

The tua fetish needs to END.
 
Point is you can't convince me there was a better option on the table vs rolling the dice on JR.

Whether it works out or not is irrelevant, the opportunity needed to be taken and it was.

Yes. I've offered many versions of that theme. Josh Rosen could have switched to synchronized diving one day later and it wouldn't matter at all. The Dolphins made a brilliant move given the handful of meaningful variables involved.

On the opposite side of the argument are those who obsess over every minute of every day. Every tweet they read. Every tweet they offer. Every comment from coach or player. Football in May or June is paramount. Every play from OTAs and practice is a result and needs to spawn opinion.

That is the type who didn't want Josh Rosen and can't tolerate the argument that his turn as a Dolphin doesn't matter. They had already followed every snap and article and quote from Rosen as a Cardinal, and used that to vastly demote him from #11 status in 2018 to worth not much beyond a mid-round sprinkle.

Fine. It isn't worth arguing with that type because we're not going to value the other side's emphasis. Sons of Shula and I had some early battles around here until we eventually realized the perspective was so different it wasn't worth jostling over. I kind of wish I could be disagreeing while reading his viewpoints, while others are disagreeing with shouright.

Regardless of what Rosen does, we have to draft Tua if available. Shifting variables and opinion don't play a role at all. I agree with hoops' assessment that pursuit of Tua is being underestimated. I proposed here that it would require 4 first round picks merely to move from #2 to #1, if Tua were the prize. That may be bloated, but only slightly. The public predictably turned Lawrence into Unitas and Tua into Jamarcus Russell based on one game. The league as a block won't be so dense.
 
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