Tua and McDaniel Joined At The Hip? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tua and McDaniel Joined At The Hip?

phinsforlife

Active Roster
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
4,379
Reaction score
8,107
Age
48
Location
san diego
I understand why people are calling for McDaniel's head. The object of course, is to make the team better with a new coach, and hopefully win playoff games and a Super Bowl. I am in no way claiming McDaniel is a sufficiently good HC.

However, the QB is an incredibly important part of making the team better. Tua has had his best years under McDaniel. McDaniel has all sorts of issues, but I don't think how has handled Tua is one of them. Tua has already admitted he was somewhat broken by Flores (understandably), and McDaniel helped rebuild his confidence. McDaniel has also designed the entire offensive system around Tua's strengths. McDaniel has done a nice job in this regard (he is really a glorified OC). He has built the offense to maximize Tua's strengths, and minimize his weaknesses. Exactly what a coach should do, although many often don't. At any rate, the proof is in the pudding, Tua has had his best years by far under McDaniel.

If McDaniel gets the boot, and an outside head coach is brought in, it is likely the Dolphins staff turns over as well (including the defensive staff again, which is another issue).

Do you think it is likely that Tua is better or worse with a new staff and system around him? This is an important question, because the QB is a really important part of achieving those goals. If the QB gets worse, it is hard for the team to be better with roughly the same personell, which is going to be the case next year.

The argument for worse is pretty straightforward. I kind of made it above, and then changing staffs and systems are always a challenge for players. Then of course, there is always a good chance the new coach we hire is a bum, no matter how compelling the hire is on paper, which tends to happen around here every single time. I guess there is an argument that Tua can maintain his performance because he has now matured and knows what to do. I am not sure what the argument is for better, but it may involve a new GM, with things rebuilt in the trenches, and all of that stuff, but that takes years. If there is another argument for better I am curious to hear it.

My suspicion is the organization shares the same fears about what happens to Tua and the offense if McDaniel goes. I think like most, they care about the business side of things as much as they do winning, and they know as long as the offense stays intact and looks pretty good most of the time, at home, at least, the business side of the football team will remain fine. I think the front office loves the video game aspect of the team for home games, at least, and that is sufficient for them. This is kind of what they want. I think. It was sure good enough for them to take ticket prices way up, so from their perspective, it kind of worked, regardless of how last season ended.

To me it feels like McDaniel and Tua are joined at the hip. I do not think they can break this thing up. They both have new deals as well, which they both got at the same time, which I also think is no coincidence and speaks to how the organization views the relationship between Tua and McDaniel. I do not think McDaniel is going anywhere. And sadly, I have already said the same about Grier.
 
Last edited:
Maybe Tua in a way is worse with a different coaching staff but the team can be better. The Steelers have been one of the most consistent franchises for decades because they understand the basic formula for sustained success is run the ball effectively and play good defense.

If we can run the ball effectively especially against good teams and especially in the cold we won't have to rely one one guy to do all the heavy lifting. Tuas numbers might go down but the overall improvement to the team would be seen in the W column especially if we can put together a top 10 defense that's not top 10 just in the standings but actually plays like it when facing quality QBs. To use the Steelers as an example again the 2 years Ben went and won the SB he had 17 TDs in the regular season but they had a top 3 defense and when you have something to lean on outside of the QB it greatly improves your chances to get a win when the QB can't be the hero.
 
Maybe Tua in a way is worse with a different coaching staff but the team can be better. The Steelers have been one of the most consistent franchises for decades because they understand the basic formula for sustained success is run the ball effectively and play good defense.

If we can run the ball effectively especially against good teams and especially in the cold we won't have to rely one one guy to do all the heavy lifting. Tuas numbers might go down but the overall improvement to the team would be seen in the W column especially if we can put together a top 10 defense that's not top 10 just in the standings but actually plays like it when facing quality QBs. To use the Steelers as an example again the 2 years Ben went and won the SB he had 17 TDs in the regular season but they had a top 3 defense and when you have something to lean on outside of the QB it greatly improves your chances to get a win when the QB can't be the hero.
thanks. i agree with this point. the steelers are a great example too. tough hard nosed coach, good front office, little turnover, so there is organizational consistency. i agree with your second paragraph too, that was sort of my point in the OP. in theory yes, but that takes time, years to rebuild the team to be able to do those things. it is an entirely different approach. and grier likely can't pull that off either. then the other challenge is, we have all these huge cap hits coming up, because we shoved a lot of money into the future. so it is even harder to restructure the team when you don't have the money to do it, and we will in fact be purging talent because of the cap situation. i think we are in a tough spot.
 
If Tua can only play for one Coach...he's not much of a QB. I think Tua will be fine especially if he can get a coach who can get the damn play-calls in on time and a GM that will surround him with an elite OL grinders.
agree with this too, but it will take years to rebuild the whole team this way, and also cap space issue per what i just wrote. so yes, in theory, but in practice it wont be easy and that takes alot of time.
 
agree with this too, but it will take years to rebuild the whole team this way, and also cap space issue per what i just wrote. so yes, in theory, but in practice it wont be easy and that takes alot of time.
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting the same results. We don't have much of a choice, do we??
 
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting the same results. We don't have much of a choice, do we??
well i kind of agree with that too from a theoretical perspective. from a practical perspective, i think there is no way they bite the bullet and start over, again. mcdaniel and tua just got new deals, at the exact same time as well. i think this is no coincidence. shows how the organization thinks they are connected too.
 
well i kind of agree with that too from a theoretical perspective. from a practical perspective, i think there is no way they bite the bullet and start over, again. mcdaniel and tua just got new deals, at the exact same time as well. i think this is no coincidence. shows how the organization thinks they are connected too.
Then we are truly doomed.
 
I understand why people are calling for McDaniel's head. The object of course, is to make the team better with a new coach, and hopefully win playoff games and a Super Bowl. I am in no way claiming McDaniel is a sufficiently good HC.

However, the QB is an incredibly important part of making the team better. Tua has had his best years under McDaniel. McDaniel has all sorts of issues, but I don't think how has handled Tua is one of them. Tua has already admitted he was somewhat broken by Flores (understandably), and McDaniel helped rebuild his confidence. McDaniel has also designed the entire offensive system around Tua's strengths. McDaniel has done a nice job in this regard (he is really a glorified OC). He has built the offense to maximize Tua's strengths, and minimize his weaknesses. Exactly what a coach should do, although many often don't. At any rate, the proof is in the pudding, Tua has had his best years by far under McDaniel.

If McDaniel gets the boot, and an outside head coach is brought in, it is likely the Dolphins staff turns over as well (including the defensive staff again, which is another issue).

Do you think it is likely that Tua is better or worse with a new staff and system around him? This is an important question, because the QB is a really important part of achieving those goals. If the QB gets worse, it is hard for the team to be better with roughly the same personell, which is going to be the case next year.

The argument for worse is pretty straightforward. I kind of made it above, and then changing staffs and systems are always a challenge for players. Then of course, there is always a good chance the new coach we hire is a bum, no matter how compelling the hire is on paper, which tends to happen around here every single time. I guess there is an argument that Tua can maintain his performance because he has now matured and knows what to do. I am not sure what the argument is for better, but it may involve a new GM, with things rebuilt in the trenches, and all of that stuff, but that takes years. If there is another argument for better I am curious to hear it.

My suspicion is the organization shares the same fears about what happens to Tua and the offense if McDaniel goes. I think like most, they care about the business side of things as much as they do winning, and they know as long as the offense stays intact and looks pretty good most of the time, at home, at least, the business side of the football team will remain fine. I think the front office loves the video game aspect of the team for home games, at least, and that is sufficient for them. This is kind of what they want. I think. It was sure good enough for them to take ticket prices way up, so from their perspective, it kind of worked, regardless of how last season ended.

To me it feels like McDaniel and Tua are joined at the hip. I do not think they can break this thing up. They both have new deals as well, which they both got at the same time, which I also think is no coincidence and speaks to how the organization views the relationship between Tua and McDaniel. I do not think McDaniel is going anywhere. And sadly, I have already said the same about Grier.
Tua is neither the solution nor the problem.

He’s a decent - but not spectacular part of a team’s mix.

He’s good enough… I think under the right circumstances… but hasn’t shown HoF potential.

The talent DB, OL, DL, LB… pick the order of those… sucks.

Coaching is meh.

Tua isn’t able to overcome the mess around him.

He’s not the worst part but of the mess but not a solution either.
 
Tua is neither the solution nor the problem.

He’s a decent - but not spectacular part of a team’s mix.

He’s good enough… I think under the right circumstances… but hasn’t shown HoF potential.

The talent DB, OL, DL, LB… pick the order of those… sucks.

Coaching is meh.

Tua isn’t able to overcome the mess around him.

He’s not the worst part but of the mess but not a solution either.
i agree with this too. but my main point is organizationally i think they won't move on from mcdaniel, and they think the two of them are just sort of joined at the hip.
 
Maybe Tua in a way is worse with a different coaching staff but the team can be better. The Steelers have been one of the most consistent franchises for decades because they understand the basic formula for sustained success is run the ball effectively and play good defense.

If we can run the ball effectively especially against good teams and especially in the cold we won't have to rely one one guy to do all the heavy lifting. Tuas numbers might go down but the overall improvement to the team would be seen in the W column especially if we can put together a top 10 defense that's not top 10 just in the standings but actually plays like it when facing quality QBs. To use the Steelers as an example again the 2 years Ben went and won the SB he had 17 TDs in the regular season but they had a top 3 defense and when you have something to lean on outside of the QB it greatly improves your chances to get a win when the QB can't be the hero.
 
I understand why people are calling for McDaniel's head. The object of course, is to make the team better with a new coach, and hopefully win playoff games and a Super Bowl. I am in no way claiming McDaniel is a sufficiently good HC.

However, the QB is an incredibly important part of making the team better. Tua has had his best years under McDaniel. McDaniel has all sorts of issues, but I don't think how has handled Tua is one of them. Tua has already admitted he was somewhat broken by Flores (understandably), and McDaniel helped rebuild his confidence. McDaniel has also designed the entire offensive system around Tua's strengths. McDaniel has done a nice job in this regard (he is really a glorified OC). He has built the offense to maximize Tua's strengths, and minimize his weaknesses. Exactly what a coach should do, although many often don't. At any rate, the proof is in the pudding, Tua has had his best years by far under McDaniel.

If McDaniel gets the boot, and an outside head coach is brought in, it is likely the Dolphins staff turns over as well (including the defensive staff again, which is another issue).

Do you think it is likely that Tua is better or worse with a new staff and system around him? This is an important question, because the QB is a really important part of achieving those goals. If the QB gets worse, it is hard for the team to be better with roughly the same personell, which is going to be the case next year.

The argument for worse is pretty straightforward. I kind of made it above, and then changing staffs and systems are always a challenge for players. Then of course, there is always a good chance the new coach we hire is a bum, no matter how compelling the hire is on paper, which tends to happen around here every single time. I guess there is an argument that Tua can maintain his performance because he has now matured and knows what to do. I am not sure what the argument is for better, but it may involve a new GM, with things rebuilt in the trenches, and all of that stuff, but that takes years. If there is another argument for better I am curious to hear it.

My suspicion is the organization shares the same fears about what happens to Tua and the offense if McDaniel goes. I think like most, they care about the business side of things as much as they do winning, and they know as long as the offense stays intact and looks pretty good most of the time, at home, at least, the business side of the football team will remain fine. I think the front office loves the video game aspect of the team for home games, at least, and that is sufficient for them. This is kind of what they want. I think. It was sure good enough for them to take ticket prices way up, so from their perspective, it kind of worked, regardless of how last season ended.

To me it feels like McDaniel and Tua are joined at the hip. I do not think they can break this thing up. They both have new deals as well, which they both got at the same time, which I also think is no coincidence and speaks to how the organization views the relationship between Tua and McDaniel. I do not think McDaniel is going anywhere. And sadly, I have already said the same about Grier.
Personally, I'd like to see Tua and McD get one more year and play the style of offense they have been playing since Tua has come back for an entire season.

Miami obviously needs to bolster its O-line and add a better pass rush, but I like Weaver. I think they are closer to contending than a lot of people think. It's the personnel decisions that are going to be the key, and I hope Grier isn't the one who will be making them.
 
Personally, I'd like to see Tua and McD get one more year and play the style of offense they have been playing since Tua has come back for an entire season.

Miami obviously needs to bolster its O-line and add a better pass rush, but I like Weaver. I think they are closer to contending than a lot of people think. It's the personnel decisions that are going to be the key, and I hope Grier isn't the one who will be making them.
sadly i think grier is joined at the hip to all of this too. my guess, as crazy as it sounds, everyone will be back....
 
Tua is neither the solution nor the problem.

He’s a decent - but not spectacular part of a team’s mix.

He’s good enough… I think under the right circumstances… but hasn’t shown HoF potential.

The talent DB, OL, DL, LB… pick the order of those… sucks.

Coaching is meh.

Tua isn’t able to overcome the mess around him.

He’s not the worst part but of the mess but not a solution either.
Who is a solution? Mahomes? If Tua is even a top 15 QB, you gotta build around him. The better the surrounding pieces are, the better Tua will look.
 
I actually think, Tua could be BETTER in a different system

I have seen Tua when our offense relies on him to carry the whole load and that isn't a recipe for long term success

I have also seen Tua in a more balanced offense (almost entirely this year) and he is much more comfortable looking, moves the offense better and sustains longer drives by playing a bit more ball control. While this isn't as flashy as the other option, it is more consistent and will likely have greater success in games in December and January

I do not think Tua and McD are joined at the hip and I think Tua might actually be attractive to a new HC candidate taking the position if they were to make a change from McD
 
Back
Top Bottom