Tua or Burrow?

Which one

  • Burrow

    Votes: 28 48.3%
  • Tua

    Votes: 30 51.7%

  • Total voters
    58

EJay

Scout Team
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
1,556
Reaction score
1,406
The point wan't that whoever gets drafted first is the better QB, my point was that the better QB in this instance will be drafted first. While both are good QBs, Burrow is the better QB. Better against pressure, better against tougher competition, performed at the highest level ever.
This is the epitome of an awful take. Rooted in nothing factual, yet positioned as such.

There’s really no reason for anyone to debate with you because you’re not coming from a position of strength in terms pf knowledge on the subject. It’s just blind favoritism of a player you happen to like or against one you don’t like.

End of story.
 

EJay

Scout Team
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
1,556
Reaction score
1,406
But where you lost credibility in your arguments was this:
The best QB and prospect in this draft will be drafted 1st, we'll see who that is. Tua is a very good QB, he's just not as good as Burrow.

That's saying Trubisky (#2) was a better prospect than Mahomes (#10) or Watson (#12) when many did not like him at all.

Organization fall in love with certain players all the time......and many organizations fail just as much, if not more, than they succeed on draft picks. They go for certain traits, certain metrics, certain physical parameters, etc.

I guarantee you one team has Herbert #1 over Tua and Burrow. If that team was picking 1st and like him the way the Bears liked Trubisky, it doesn't make him the best prospect.
He had no credibility to begin with. And that take is as horrible as it gets. He’s littered this thread with gems just like it.

This guy is akin to someone that reviews a film having only watched the equivalent of a couple trailers. Drawing conclusions from there.

Slimm isn’t right all the time. Not even close to it. Nobody is. Difference is, and why people respect his opinion and others like him, his takes are rooted in deep research and study.

Experts doctors disagree all the time. Despite having over a decade of high level education and experience in the medical field. But at least both are coming from a highly educated and highly researched POV.

In this case, Slimm is coming from a position of strength while this other guy clearly isn’t despite what he might say.

I can respectfully disagree with Slim yet still highly respect his POV. But these other guys are easy to recognize and dismiss once they open their mouth up enough.

These guys get reenforced when they blindly hit a bullseye from time to time. Throw enough crap out there, something will eventually stick.

But I’ll place bets with a thorough and logical researcher every single time knowing I’ll come out ahead a vast majority of the time.
 
Last edited:

j-off-her-doll

Finheaven VIP
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
18,790
Reaction score
8,051
Location
Dream Songs
LSU's top 3 WR's were better than Alabama's. 'Bama was stront 4 deep, but I'd take LSU's guys. Chase looks like a better prospect than any of Alabama's WR's - with some room, imo, and Jefferson is in Jeudy and Smith's range. Like Ruggs and Waddle, Marshall Jr is an excellent complement, and he and Waddle should see bigger roles in 2020.

The real edge shows in tough catches, though. Chase, Jefferson, and Marshall Jr can all separate and various levels, but they also bully DB's for the ball - having the physicality, knowing how to position their bodies, and having the timing and ball skills to finish through contact.

Tua had to be more precise with his WR's. You didn't see a lot Alabama WR's Mossing DB's. AJ Terrell is a 1st Round talent, and Chase beat him so bad that some people are projecting him in the 50s.

Both are excellent groups, and if you prefer Alabama's WR's, that fine, but if you're going to pin Tua's success on his WR's, you should be doing the same for Burrow.
 

Feverdream

Starter
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
2,228
Reaction score
2,884
I thought that the San Diego guy broke it down pretty well. Tua really fattened up on the weak Alabama schedule. When faced with quality defenses, he has had both good and bad days... and when he was out, his backup did about as well.

That doesn't look transcendent.

Don't get me wrong, Tua is pretty good... but this player of the decade stuff? Naw...
 

PSU Cane

Starter
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
1,797
Reaction score
478
He had no credibility to begin with. And that take is as horrible as it gets. He’s littered this thread with gems just like it.

This guy is akin to someone that reviews a film having only watched the equivalent of a couple trailers. Drawing conclusions from there.

Slimm isn’t right all the time. Not even close to it. Nobody is. Difference is, and why people respect his opinion and others like him, his takes are rooted in deep research and study.

Experts doctors disagree all the time. Despite having over a decade of high level education and experience in the medical field. But at least both are coming from a highly educated and highly researched POV.

In this case, Slimm is coming from a position of strength while this other guy clearly isn’t despite what he might say.

I can respectfully disagree with Slim yet still highly respect his POV. But these other guys are easy to recognize and dismiss once they open their mouth up enough.

These guys get reenforced when they blindly hit a bullseye from time to time. Throw enough crap out there, something will eventually stick.

But I’ll place bets with a thorough and logical researcher every single time knowing I’ll come out ahead a vast majority of the time.
I’ve been around a long time. I know all about slimm and respect everything he writes even if I have a differing opinion.

it’s not hard to easily tell who does research and film work vs those who watch a few highlights, read a few blurbs and look at stats.
 

EJay

Scout Team
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
1,556
Reaction score
1,406
I’ve been around a long time. I know all about slimm and respect everything he writes even if I have a differing opinion.

it’s not hard to easily tell who does research and film work vs those who watch a few highlights, read a few blurbs and look at stats.
Truth.
 

Lovethefish

Second String
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
1,444
Reaction score
788
Chris Grier is one of the top 3 biggest frauds in the league and wouldn’t know an offensive lineman or a pass rusher if they walked up and pissed in his pocket protector. To watch him piss away all these draft picks is going to be painful for a whole lot of y’all. Of course it don’t bother me, I just laugh.

I’ve already bet $100 they’ll never win a playoff game with him as GM. Ain’t nobody forgot.
Understand the negativity, I’m not confident in Grier maneuvering the board.
My biggest hope is that the draft literally falls into place...
At #5 - the Lions and Giants fall in love with Okudah and Simmons- Tua falls to us.
If they go Herbert. F-It. Hopefully we are all wrong.

At #18 - hopefully one of the top OTs (obvious need) falls to us.
My fear here is that I see Miami reaching for an OT. Maybe Jones from Houston.

At #26- My fear is Grier goes RB-
Maybe Ruiz falls to us here.
With 5-6 quality RBs and picks 39 and 56 and ammo to move up or down from #39. It makes zero sense to me to go RB at #26.
 

nick1

I am Groot
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
26,879
Reaction score
6,909
Location
FL
LSU's top 3 WR's were better than Alabama's. 'Bama was stront 4 deep, but I'd take LSU's guys. Chase looks like a better prospect than any of Alabama's WR's - with some room, imo, and Jefferson is in Jeudy and Smith's range. Like Ruggs and Waddle, Marshall Jr is an excellent complement, and he and Waddle should see bigger roles in 2020.

The real edge shows in tough catches, though. Chase, Jefferson, and Marshall Jr can all separate and various levels, but they also bully DB's for the ball - having the physicality, knowing how to position their bodies, and having the timing and ball skills to finish through contact.

Tua had to be more precise with his WR's. You didn't see a lot Alabama WR's Mossing DB's. AJ Terrell is a 1st Round talent, and Chase beat him so bad that some people are projecting him in the 50s.

Both are excellent groups, and if you prefer Alabama's WR's, that fine, but if you're going to pin Tua's success on his WR's, you should be doing the same for Burrow.
How do you feel about burrow? I know you probably dislike his age but seems like an elite QB
 

j-off-her-doll

Finheaven VIP
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
18,790
Reaction score
8,051
Location
Dream Songs
How do you feel about burrow? I know you probably dislike his age but seems like an elite QB
He's good. I'd take him or Tua, but I prefer Tua. I would like him better if he had a longer track record of high-end production, if he was a little younger, and if he had a better arm.
 

EireTiger

Starter
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
344
Reaction score
35
He had no credibility to begin with. And that take is as horrible as it gets. He’s littered this thread with gems just like it.

This guy is akin to someone that reviews a film having only watched the equivalent of a couple trailers. Drawing conclusions from there.

Slimm isn’t right all the time. Not even close to it. Nobody is. Difference is, and why people respect his opinion and others like him, his takes are rooted in deep research and study.

Experts doctors disagree all the time. Despite having over a decade of high level education and experience in the medical field. But at least both are coming from a highly educated and highly researched POV.

In this case, Slimm is coming from a position of strength while this other guy clearly isn’t despite what he might say.

I can respectfully disagree with Slim yet still highly respect his POV. But these other guys are easy to recognize and dismiss once they open their mouth up enough.

These guys get reenforced when they blindly hit a bullseye from time to time. Throw enough crap out there, something will eventually stick.

But I’ll place bets with a thorough and logical researcher every single time knowing I’ll come out ahead a vast majority of the time.

Humorous post. I've posted analysis that discusses Burrow being more accurate, better under pressure, performing at a higher level against tough competition and you and the other Tua apologists cling to the insignificant statement made at the end of one post where I said the better QB will be drafted first as something that somehow discredits all the facts. Somehow the guys with the Alabama logos are the perceived neutral/objective people on this site. Funny.

Every single response to anything I've written completely ignores the facts, because the only way to support your blind support for a certain prospect is to ignore the facts and try to discredit the source. There are no facts that support your opinion in your response. PSUCane and Pachyderm as well. None of you address the facts, statistics, opinion of NFL GM's and scouts or even the opinion of those who cover the NFL for a living. Who's cherry picking? We're all entitled to our opinions, on this subject of Burrow vs Tua we disagree.

Whether or not the other person in this thread thinks Womack is any good or not, he would have started at LSU for 3 years. Are we going to try turn this into a Matt Womack thread now? Would sure help the other apologists from having to address the YAC question, the performance under pressure question, the durability question, etc. Both QBs started for two years, how about you, PSU Cane and the others provide some information in your posts that support your opinion? If I'm wrong I'm open to hearing some facts that support that., they're both good QBs.
 
Last edited:

PSU Cane

Starter
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
1,797
Reaction score
478
Understand the negativity, I’m not confident in Grier maneuvering the board.
My biggest hope is that the draft literally falls into place...
At #5 - the Lions and Giants fall in love with Okudah and Simmons- Tua falls to us.
If they go Herbert. F-It. Hopefully we are all wrong.

At #18 - hopefully one of the top OTs (obvious need) falls to us.
My fear here is that I see Miami reaching for an OT. Maybe Jones from Houston.

At #26- My fear is Grier goes RB-
Maybe Ruiz falls to us here.
With 5-6 quality RBs and picks 39 and 56 and ammo to move up or down from #39. It makes zero sense to me to go RB at #26.
I see no reason to take a running back at #26. The FO needs a vision, a blueprint of who they are and how to get there....which positions to value in their O-scheme and D-scheme, which traits to look for (size vs speed, 1-gap vs 2-gap, zone vs man, etc). Then create your board and roster value charts. If RB is high on their value board then fine. A STUD like McCaffrey or Barkely who becomes a focal point and can be used all over can change an offense.....of is that is the missing piece it could have huge value. But if not, if you're more committee like NO, GB, NE, KC, PHI, SF, etc the value just doesn't warrant the draft position.

This RB class is really good. I would love to have a Taylor or Dobbins running inside. I'd love to have a versatile Swift or Edwards-Helaire running and receiving. But at the end of the day, RBs can be found in Rounds 2-4 and in free agency. - Gurley was just cut and signed cheap at $6M. Gordon was signed for $8M a season. Howard at $5M a season. Guys like Freeman, Miller, Thompson, Hyde, McCoy, Powell, Crowell, Ware, J Williams, Smallwood, Booker, Washington, etc are all still out there looking for jobs.

Who's made more:
- Carl Nassib ($8.3M) and his 5 sack/yr avg over the last 3, Vic Beasley ($9.5M) and his 6 sack/yr avg over the last 3
- George Fant ($10M) and his only 20 starts the last 40 games and 53rd best OT ranking in 2019 (20 pressures given up in 221 pass blocking snaps, used a lot as a blocking TE on run downs).
- Flowers ($10M), Peat ($11.5M), Glasgow ($11M), McGovern ($9M), Vaitai ($9M), Whitworth ($10M) and Conklin ($14M) - all offensive linemen
- Reader ($13.25M), Hargrave ($13M), Phillips ($10M), Pierce ($9M), Linval Joseph ($8.5M), A'Shawn Robinson ($8.5) - all interior DTs
- Fowler, Van Noy, Littlejohn, Schobert, Martinez, Addison, Collins, Floyd - all LBs at $10M+
- Not to mention big money for CBs in Jones, Bradberry and Waynes

Free agency shows is which positions are being valued. These positions are hard to come by in the draft and are expensive in FA. OL, Dline, Pass Rush, CB. What does Miami need? OL, Dline, Pass Rush.....and you can always use more CBs with the legal and injury questions on X.
 

Lovethefish

Second String
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
1,444
Reaction score
788
In the Tua v JB v Love convo, Draft position becomes key.
Tua at #5 presents greater value than JB and cost to move up for #1. Regardless of which QB you prefer.

Will pose a more interesting question - if Jags go full rebuild and offer 9, 20, 42 and 2021 Rd1 for trade up to #3 do we get involved, or hold and maneuver for Love?
 

PSU Cane

Starter
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
1,797
Reaction score
478
In the Tua v JB v Love convo, Draft position becomes key.
Tua at #5 presents greater value than JB and cost to move up for #1. Regardless of which QB you prefer.

Will pose a more interesting question - if Jags go full rebuild and offer 9, 20, 42 and 2021 Rd1 for trade up to #3 do we get involved, or hold and maneuver for Love?
I can't see the Jaguars doing that. For one, i think they really like Minshew. His QBR was higher than Murray, Mayfield, and yes, Tom Brady (as well as his Y/A).....two, that roster needs help. Trading away all that draft capital will continue to set them back.
 

Feverdream

Starter
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
2,228
Reaction score
2,884
In the Tua v JB v Love convo, Draft position becomes key.
Tua at #5 presents greater value than JB and cost to move up for #1. Regardless of which QB you prefer.

Will pose a more interesting question - if Jags go full rebuild and offer 9, 20, 42 and 2021 Rd1 for trade up to #3 do we get involved, or hold and maneuver for Love?
I think we call them up and tell them that we'll take less for the #5.
 

Lovethefish

Second String
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
1,444
Reaction score
788
I can't see the Jaguars doing that. For one, i think they really like Minshew. His QBR was higher than Murray, Mayfield, and yes, Tom Brady (as well as his Y/A).....two, that roster needs help. Trading away all that draft capital will continue to set them back.
Agree. More about a hypothetical for Tua supporters.
 
Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Top Bottom