****Tua Tagovailoa super thread**** | Page 170 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

****Tua Tagovailoa super thread****

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Matthew stafford has a cannon he’s just not that athletic or fast.

big arm though. Big damn arm
 
The nfls gonna have to do a whole lot of changing or bo nix is gonna have to come a hell of a long ways for me to embrace that as a pro qb prospect.

the Texas kid improved so I won’t say it can’t happen but nix has got a long ways to go
 
hoops said:
The nfls gonna have to do a whole lot of changing or bo nix is gonna have to come a hell of a long ways for me to embrace that as a pro qb prospect.

the Texas kid improved so I won’t say it can’t happen but nix has got a long ways to go
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He’s still young and learning. I think he’s going to look better this upcoming season.
 
hoops said:
I will just give you an example. And it’s gonna come from the Miami game vs the bills in Miami and the cover 2 defense we were in. And it’s also gonna come from josh allen someone I at least think has a very similar arm to Herbert.

that ball outside the numbers between the flatten but drop corner who played it damn well given he had no front side flats cover player threat etc and Allen threw an absolute rocket ship ball over the dropping corners ear and in front of the help assignment safety being Bobby mccain has zero business actually scoring if not for the throw utterly defeating the coverage.

that ball had so mucb on it the coverage was literally defeated regardless of how well the corner and safety had played it. Mccain was not gonna get over there in time. Of course it ended in walk in cause mccain took a bad angle and the wr cut inside of him after the catch but throw was ungodly.

and I don’t buy for even a second tbere a bunch of guys in the league who can make that throw with that kinda paste on it and defeat that level coverage. Just basically witb the sheer velocity. Can other guys make the actual throw vs that cover 2 coverage sure but can they throw that laser beam out there at that kinda clip nah not many.

I mean that throw was just an absolute coverage beater.

I think Herbert has those same type of abilities in terms of the ability to defeat coverage with his arm strength/velocity.
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This is better, and I agree with what you're getting at. However, here's the difference. You're going to have to get Herbert to pull the trigger and be accurate when he does - because he will let coverage defeat him mentally. Josh Allen will not.

I read a post from some guy yesterday about Herbert being 6'6" and being a baller. He got the 6'6" part right - not sure about the baller though. Josh Allen is a baller with a gunslinger's mentality and the tools to back it up. Herbert has the tools, but he doesn't have the confidence - which is why he slinks in big moments.

However, he improved on some of that throughout this season - which I made note of several times in the draft forum. But ultimately I think his DNA as a quarterback just prevents him from being special. Any quarterback with Justin Herbert's tools with the ability to speed up his process when it's vital to do so goes #1 overall in this draft.

However, that's what made prospects like Cam Newton go #1 overall and be able to transition to the NFL so quickly. He proved he was able to speed up his process and be a baller in the clutch.

I see "toolsy" quarterbacks every year that are not able to demonstrate that. And that's what I mean by big, strong armed, athletic quarterbacks not being difficult to find in every draft.
 
Pachyderm_Wave said:
This is better, and I agree with what you're getting at. However, here's the difference. You're going to have to get Herbert to pull the trigger and be accurate when he does - because he will let coverage defeat him mentally. Josh Allen will not.

I read a post from some guy yesterday about Herbert being 6'6" and being a baller. He got the 6'6" part right - not sure about the baller though. Josh Allen is a baller with a gunslinger's mentality and the tools to back it up. Herbert has the tools, but he doesn't have the confidence - which is why he slinks in big moments.

However, he improved on some of that throughout this season - which I made note of several times in the draft forum. But ultimately I think his DNA as a quarterback just prevents him from being special. Any quarterback with Justin Herbert's tools with the ability to speed up his process when it's vital to do so goes #1 overall in this draft.

However, that's what made prospects like Cam Newton go #1 overall and be able to transition to the NFL so quickly. He proved he was able to speed up his process and be a baller in the clutch.

I see "toolsy" quarterbacks every year that are not able to demonstrate that. And that's what I mean by big, strong armed, athletic quarterbacks not being difficult to find in every draft.
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I’m not arguing that at all. I understand that the timing has to be spot on with the delivery etc and everything else but I also don’t think that’s too difficult a read as long as you hold the help safety a little bit with your eyes. But when you got that level arm the normal I can drop a bit and create more distance for the ball to get there and in the process meet the the ball at the target goes out the window.

all I’m saying in all of this is that Herbert has elite level arm, size, athleticism, and speed combo.

between the ears is another thing and I have plenty of questions concerns about that aspect of things. Enough to keep me away frankly.

in terms of the athlete again I don’t know how fluid his redirect 3 cone 20 yard shuttle etc is gonna test i don’t see any hitches in it on tape and he covers ground with his stride well but I am confident he’s gonna run damn well combined with all his other physical attributes and have teams confirming his ability to outflank

in terms of Newton I saw his first start at auburn where they basically put training wheels on him and I saw his last start and it was night in day in terms of the trust in the qb as a passer and his ability to execute. And I full on believe that combined with his physical tools is why he was a lock to go #1 in that class. I know I had him there.
 
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hoops said:
I’m not arguing that at all. I understand that the timing has to be spot on with the delivery etc and everything else but I also don’t think that’s too difficult a read as long as you hold the help safety a little bit with your eyes. But when you got that level arm the normal I can drop a bit and create more distance for the ball to get there and in the process meet the the ball at the target goes out the window.

all I’m saying in all of this is that Herbert has elite level arm, size, athleticism, and speed combo.

between the ears is another thing and I have plenty of questions concerns about that aspect of things. Enough to keep me away frankly.

in terms of the athlete again I don’t know how fluid his redirect 3 cone 20 yard shuttle etc is gonna test i don’t see any hitches in it on tape and he covers ground with his stride well but I am confident he’s gonna run damn well combined with all his other physical attributes and have teams confirming his ability to outflank

in terms of Newton I saw his first start at auburn where they basically put training wheels on him and I saw his last start and it was night in day in terms of the trust in the qb as a passer and his ability to execute. And I full on believe that combined with his physical tools is why he was a lock to go #1 in that class. I know I had him there.
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Cam Newton showed this type of DNA as a 1 year starter and came out as a Junior to be the #1 overall pick. The problem with Newton was going to be his attitude and ability to deal with losing.

In regards to Herbert, we're talking about a Senior and a 4 year starter that still struggles to beat the more talented college defenses with his ability to throw the football.

Although Herbert has become a mature passer of the football due his 4 years of starting experience. He doesn't put too much steam on passes that don't need it - which is a good thing. But his ball placement and accuracy down the field on anything other than his primary read is sketchy, because it requires resetting his feet and speeding up the entire process again. Furthermore, I just don't believe his complete package of athleticism is anything that rare.

I think he's a 1st round person and prospect. But anything top 10 is going to require some serious improvements and excellent team building around him to see it be worth the investment.
 
Yeah but we both agree that Herberts mechanics are coachable in terms of the consistency and his base/footwork.

or at least I know we did. It’s really all between the ears and the process speed etc that has me spooked. And to an extent the instincts level/side of things.

seems to be a little hesitation in his see it aspect of things be it vs pressure or as a down field passer.

I agree though 4 year starter with the same kind of warts and not much growth in those aspects it’s a legit concern/problem.

whoever drafts him will blame it on everything but the qb. It’s just not a bet I’d be willing to make.

he’s still gonna have tbat card turned in top 7
 
So nfl.com has mock draft with trade up. They are saying we will give up number 5, 26, second rounder and early pick next year to lions WTF ???? Isn't that excessive? Jets moved up from 6 to 3 a few years ago. I think they gave up 3 seconds or 2 seconds. What is reasonable?
 
bane said:
So nfl.com has mock draft with trade up. They are saying we will give up number 5, 26, second rounder and early pick next year to lions WTF ???? Isn't that excessive? Jets moved up from 6 to 3 a few years ago. I think they gave up 3 seconds or 2 seconds. What is reasonable?
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Whatever the Lions and Dolphins cone tonterms with is what's reasonable.

No qb in 2018 was as good as Tua, therefore compensation won't be the same.
 
bane said:
So nfl.com has mock draft with trade up. They are saying we will give up number 5, 26, second rounder and early pick next year to lions WTF ???? Isn't that excessive? Jets moved up from 6 to 3 a few years ago. I think they gave up 3 seconds or 2 seconds. What is reasonable?
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Supply and demand and the prospect matters. Darnold sucks.
 
bane said:
So nfl.com has mock draft with trade up. They are saying we will give up number 5, 26, second rounder and early pick next year to lions WTF ???? Isn't that excessive? Jets moved up from 6 to 3 a few years ago. I think they gave up 3 seconds or 2 seconds. What is reasonable?
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price will be higher than folks are projecting
 
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