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Understanding where we really are...

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Mello Yello

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Harbaugh. Watson. Brady. Payton. Flores.

Those are just some of the names that stand in the way of Grier getting fired. I'll explain...

Ross visited Harbaugh when he left Stanford for the NFL back in '11. Even then, Ross' move was seen as overly bold and the fact it subverted the credibility of still-employed HC Tony Sparano made it seem like a slimeball maneuver by the Owner who wasn't brave enough relieve Sparano of his duties before launching an expedition to go and talk to the next cutest girl at the bar.

Toward the end of the 2019 season when Tom Brady was set to become a free agent, it was who that supposedly initiated back-room talks? It was who that supposedly tried to set up a clandestine meeting between Brady and the Dolphins then-HC on a boat? It was the Owner, Stephen Ross.

In 2021, when Deshaun Watson tried to force his way out of Houston there were reliable reports that Ross tried to set up a call with the QB. If Ross wasn't interested, it would've been easy to ignore Watson entirely or simply issue something to the press whether formally or through a leak that 'the Miami Dolphins have no interest...'

In 2022, when it was clear HC Sean Payton was done in New Orleans, what team was supposedly ready to ink a 5-yr, $100M deal with Payton? It was Miami. And who would've been the one to approve such a monumentous, record-setting offer? The Owner, Stephen Ross.

When HC Brian Flores left and later filed a lawsuit against the Dolphins making allegations which indicted the Dolphins of both tampering shennanigans (which they were found guilty of and punished for quite severely by the NFL) and of making the HC offers of $100k per game to lose...who did Flores say made those offers? It wasn't the President or the GM. It was the Owner, Stephen Ross.

...and btw, who gave Joe Philbin an extension and then promptly fired him the next season?
...and who was it that brought in Mike Tannenbaum and let him advise on all the major decisions between '16 - '18?
...and who agreed to an unprecedented purging of the roster all to collect enough draft capital to move Heaven and Earth for a QB despite the obvious history of failures involving some horribly depleted team throwing a young, developing QB into such chaos and disarray?

In fact, who hired Dennis Hickey from Tampa after a long search in which it became embarrassingly clear no one was willing to step in as Miami's GM?


The point is simply that Chris Grier is far more likely a bit-player in the Miami Dolphins operations, someone who is responsible for communicating with other teams, making the occasional trade, and signing the necessary free agents to keep the team moving. This doesn't absolve him of his atrocious record in the latter rounds of the draft but it does provide evidence that the real force in Miami is Owner Stephen Ross.

Could Ross fire Grier and make him the fall guy? Sure, but then he'd have to find someone else. And attracting anyone worth getting would probably mean surrendering the control and influence he has.

Will a billionaire Owner who acts autonomously ever bring in someone who'll start bossing him around? Likely not.

McDaniel may be the fall guy in January, but it will only open the door to another moment that will show us Ross being the mover-and-shaker-in-Chief chasing that whale hoping to throw money at the problem...but who will there be to throw money at I wonder? Will he be satisfied to chase some OC somewhere else? Will he be able to attract such an up-and-comer with all the constraints already in-place in Miami?

There is a dream among many fans that a new GM could come in and run everything as "the boss" making all the right decisions that eventually helped to steer Miami towards success.

While that's not impossible, I think the history of the Dolphins under Ross' direction makes that seem a somewhat naive and unlikely fantasy.
 
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Mello Yello said:
Harbaugh. Watson. Brady. Payton. Flores.

Those are just some of the names that stand in the way of Grier getting fired. I'll explain...

Ross visited Harbaugh when he left Stanford for the NFL back in '11. Even then, Ross' move was seen as overly bold and the fact it subverted the credibility of still-employed HC Tony Sparano made it seem like a slimeball maneuver by the Owner who wasn't brave enough relieve Sparano of his duties before launching an expedition to go and talk to the next cutest girl at the bar.

Toward the end of the 2019 season when Tom Brady was set to become a free agent, it was who that supposedly initiated back-room talks? It was who that supposedly tried to set up a clandestine meeting between Brady and the Dolphins then-HC on a boat? It was the Owner, Stephen Ross.

In 2021, when Deshaun Watson tried to force his way out of Houston there were reliable reports that Ross tried to set up a call with the QB. If Ross wasn't interested, it would've been easy to ignore Watson entirely or simply issue something to the press whether formally or through a leak that 'the Miami Dolphins have no interest...'

In 2022, when it was clear HC Sean Payton was done in New Orleans, what team was supposedly ready to ink a 5-yr, $100M deal with Payton? It was Miami. And who would've been the one to approve such a monumentous, record-setting offer? The Owner, Stephen Ross.

When HC Brian Flores left and later filed a lawsuit against the Dolphins making allegations which indicted the Dolphins of both tampering shennanigans (which they were found guilty of and punished for quite severely by the NFL) and of making the HC offers of $100k per game to lose...who did Flores say made those offers? It wasn't the President or the GM. It was the Owner, Stephen Ross.

...and btw, who gave Joe Philbin an extension and then promptly fired him the next season?
...and who was it that brought in Mike Tannenbaum and let him advise on all the major decisions between '16 - '18?
...and who agreed to an unprecedented purging of the roster all to collect enough draft capital to move Heaven and Earth for a QB despite the obvious history of failures involving some horribly depleted team throwing a young, developing QB into such chaos and disarray?

In fact, who hired Dennis Hickey from Tampa after a long search in which it became embarrassingly clear no one was willing to step in as Miami's GM?


The point is simply that Chris Grier is far more likely a bit-player in the Miami Dolphins operations, someone who is responsible for communicating with other teams, making the occasional trade, and signing the necessary free agents to keep the team moving. This doesn't absolve him of his atrocious record in the latter rounds of the draft but it does provide evidence that the real force in Miami is Owner Stephen Ross.

Could Ross fire Grier and make him the fall guy? Sure, but then he'd have to find someone else. And attracting anyone worth getting would probably mean surrendering the control and influence he has.

Will a billionaire Owner who acts autonomously ever bring in someone who'll start bossing him around? Likely not.

McDaniel may be the fall guy in January, but it will only open the door to another moment that will show us Ross being the mover-and-shaker-in-Chief chasing that whale hoping to throw money at the problem...but who will there be to throw money at I wonder? Will he be satisfied to chase some OC somewhere else? Will he be able to attract such an up-and-comer with all the constraints already in-place in Miami?

There is a dream among many fans that a new GM could come in and run everything as "the boss" making all the right decisions that eventually helped to steer Miami towards success.

While that's not impossible, I think the history of the Dolphins under Ross' direction makes that seem a somewhat naive and unlikely fantasy.
Click to expand...

One reason I react when someone claims Grier, by himself, is responsible for this mess. Such delusions as
'Grier picks the HC'
'Grier chose Mcd'
'Grier drafted Cam Smith and AJax.'
'Grier finds and signs injury-prone players.'
He does none of these . . . by himself.
I agree. Grier is not blameless, but ignoring Ross as sitting in on HC candidates, or disinterested in the QB is a few steps too far from reality. One reason Grier has some cover (and less blame than some allow) that shields him from termination.
None of this means someone else couldn't be a more (or less) competent GM nor that I'm a Grier apologist. But, it is some evidence the GM's job has more influences than some know and less say than some admit
 
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I've said it before and I'll say it until someone can actually disprove it:

We don't know what Chris Grier's job is aside from the title of "GM."

If Ross told Grier that his job as GM is to facilitate the HC with the type of players (and when possible the specific players) that he wanted to fit his scheme(s), it is difficult to argue that he hasn't done exactly that. In short, he's been setting up the HC as best he can to succeed according to the HC's plan. There have certainly been rumblings and signs that this is exactly the case.

Now, can Grier be indisputably linked to his role in hiring coaches like Gase and Flores who turned into lunatics at the end of their third year? Absolutely. But it's difficult to say that Grier has done poorly at his job if he's literally doing what the guy who signs his checks is telling him to do.

And before the usual suspects chime in and start with their "AqUA COLoReD GlassES WeaRIng Are YU CHriS GRIeR's BURNeR oR hIS wYfE" bull***...I can certainly understand tossing the entire FO and staff out, because it just isn't working.

But don't be all surprised and start drawing up extortion theories if it turns out that doesn't happen...because again...we don't know what his job is.
 
Mello Yello said:
Harbaugh. Watson. Brady. Payton. Flores.

Those are just some of the names that stand in the way of Grier getting fired. I'll explain...

Ross visited Harbaugh when he left Stanford for the NFL back in '11. Even then, Ross' move was seen as overly bold and the fact it subverted the credibility of still-employed HC Tony Sparano made it seem like a slimeball maneuver by the Owner who wasn't brave enough relieve Sparano of his duties before launching an expedition to go and talk to the next cutest girl at the bar.

Toward the end of the 2019 season when Tom Brady was set to become a free agent, it was who that supposedly initiated back-room talks? It was who that supposedly tried to set up a clandestine meeting between Brady and the Dolphins then-HC on a boat? It was the Owner, Stephen Ross.

In 2021, when Deshaun Watson tried to force his way out of Houston there were reliable reports that Ross tried to set up a call with the QB. If Ross wasn't interested, it would've been easy to ignore Watson entirely or simply issue something to the press whether formally or through a leak that 'the Miami Dolphins have no interest...'

In 2022, when it was clear HC Sean Payton was done in New Orleans, what team was supposedly ready to ink a 5-yr, $100M deal with Payton? It was Miami. And who would've been the one to approve such a monumentous, record-setting offer? The Owner, Stephen Ross.

When HC Brian Flores left and later filed a lawsuit against the Dolphins making allegations which indicted the Dolphins of both tampering shennanigans (which they were found guilty of and punished for quite severely by the NFL) and of making the HC offers of $100k per game to lose...who did Flores say made those offers? It wasn't the President or the GM. It was the Owner, Stephen Ross.

...and btw, who gave Joe Philbin an extension and then promptly fired him the next season?
...and who was it that brought in Mike Tannenbaum and let him advise on all the major decisions between '16 - '18?
...and who agreed to an unprecedented purging of the roster all to collect enough draft capital to move Heaven and Earth for a QB despite the obvious history of failures involving some horribly depleted team throwing a young, developing QB into such chaos and disarray?

In fact, who hired Dennis Hickey from Tampa after a long search in which it became embarrassingly clear no one was willing to step in as Miami's GM?


The point is simply that Chris Grier is far more likely a bit-player in the Miami Dolphins operations, someone who is responsible for communicating with other teams, making the occasional trade, and signing the necessary free agents to keep the team moving. This doesn't absolve him of his atrocious record in the latter rounds of the draft but it does provide evidence that the real force in Miami is Owner Stephen Ross.

Could Ross fire Grier and make him the fall guy? Sure, but then he'd have to find someone else. And attracting anyone worth getting would probably mean surrendering the control and influence he has.

Will a billionaire Owner who acts autonomously ever bring in someone who'll start bossing him around? Likely not.

McDaniel may be the fall guy in January, but it will only open the door to another moment that will show us Ross being the mover-and-shaker-in-Chief chasing that whale hoping to throw money at the problem...but who will there be to throw money at I wonder? Will he be satisfied to chase some OC somewhere else? Will he be able to attract such an up-and-comer with all the constraints already in-place in Miami?

There is a dream among many fans that a new GM could come in and run everything as "the boss" making all the right decisions that eventually helped to steer Miami towards success.

While that's not impossible, I think the history of the Dolphins under Ross' direction makes that seem a somewhat naive and unlikely fantasy.
Click to expand...
Sadly, I could see this being the truth, and very typical of high worth individuals.
 
How much better were things under Huizenga? He chased all the big names, Parcells, Saban, and Jimmy Johnson without dramatically different results.
 
I can't wait for the full ESPN article detailing everything that's happened the last 10-15 years. Who did what and who's to blame for so and so.
 
The Goat said:
I've said it before and I'll say it until someone can actually disprove it:

We don't know what Chris Grier's job is aside from the title of "GM."

If Ross told Grier that his job as GM is to facilitate the HC with the type of players (and when possible the specific players) that he wanted to fit his scheme(s), it is difficult to argue that he hasn't done exactly that. In short, he's been setting up the HC as best he can to succeed according to the HC's plan. There have certainly been rumblings and signs that this is exactly the case.

Now, can Grier be indisputably linked to his role in hiring coaches like Gase and Flores who turned into lunatics at the end of their third year? Absolutely. But it's difficult to say that Grier has done poorly at his job if he's literally doing what the guy who signs his checks is telling him to do.

And before the usual suspects chime in and start with their "AqUA COLoReD GlassES WeaRIng Are YU CHriS GRIeR's BURNeR oR hIS wYfE" bull***...I can certainly understand tossing the entire FO and staff out, because it just isn't working.

But don't be all surprised and start drawing up extortion theories if it turns out that doesn't happen...because again...we don't know what his job is.
Click to expand...
Like many, I’m convinced more than anything it’s a Stephen Ross problem. I think Ross wants to win, but just has to be seen as the smartest guy in the room. I feel like he wants to be seen as the visionary who identified and hired the next great coach. Which is why he keeps hiring different versions of the same guy. As soon as he called Philbin a, “young Don Shula” at Philbin’s introductory press conference, I was worried.
 
superphin said:
I can't wait for the full ESPN article detailing everything that's happened the last 10-15 years. Who did what and who's to blame for so and so.
Click to expand...
It’s one of those things where you think you want to know, but as soon you find out you wish you hadn’t, because you’re either going to end up saying, “****, this team never even had a chance” or “dammit, they were so close, if only ‘X’ had happened”.
 
The Goat said:
I've said it before and I'll say it until someone can actually disprove it:

We don't know what Chris Grier's job is aside from the title of "GM."

If Ross told Grier that his job as GM is to facilitate the HC with the type of players (and when possible the specific players) that he wanted to fit his scheme(s), it is difficult to argue that he hasn't done exactly that. In short, he's been setting up the HC as best he can to succeed according to the HC's plan. There have certainly been rumblings and signs that this is exactly the case.

Now, can Grier be indisputably linked to his role in hiring coaches like Gase and Flores who turned into lunatics at the end of their third year? Absolutely. But it's difficult to say that Grier has done poorly at his job if he's literally doing what the guy who signs his checks is telling him to do.

And before the usual suspects chime in and start with their "AqUA COLoReD GlassES WeaRIng Are YU CHriS GRIeR's BURNeR oR hIS wYfE" bull***...I can certainly understand tossing the entire FO and staff out, because it just isn't working.

But don't be all surprised and start drawing up extortion theories if it turns out that doesn't happen...because again...we don't know what his job is.
Click to expand...

JMHO, but if Grier made all draft choices WITHOUT input from HC/coordinators/position coaches, it seems reasonable Flo would have mentioned that as a major problem to support his accusations.
 
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