Upgrades Since '17 - O Edition | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Upgrades Since '17 - O Edition

jnozag said:
we lost our leading rusher and receiver from 2016 (when we went to the playoffs). you can't just look at paper and say we're better. we need to see, but it's probably doubtful we're better than we were in 2016.
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The title is upgrades since '17. I posted that because some say the team is no better than last year
 
Every player on offense should grade out better than their 2017 counterpart, even when that player being compared to is the same guy. Tunsil, Parker, Tannehill, Drake, Grant, James, Stills have no reason to not be the best they've ever been, should health not be an issue.

Kilgore/Pouncey is the only spot really up in the air for me. If Kilgore can hover around average we will be ok, especially if he never misses practice.

If the upgrade at TE is what we think it should be.......game on.

Don't be afraid to believe in this group. I know it's hard to think that this many upgrades could actually have taken place. But they did.
 
My opinion is we did upgrade and will be much better in 2018. First and foremost Tannehill will give us consistently better QB play than Cutler. I think where rival fans get lost here is it's not because he will be a superstar, and I hope he is, but mostly just because he will make the majority of the routine plays and throws Cutler just didn't. Even is Jay's best game (NE) he left points on the field. He just messed up too many plays that were there to be made period.

I agree on the line, it will be the best pass blocking line in the Tannehill era. The lines really haven't been as bad as the site makes them out to be since Gase has come over. We've been in the top half of the league in sacks allowed over the last 2 seasons better than many playoff teams and even some super bowl contestants.

I expect the offense as a whole to be better and more explosive. I think there is a ton of speed on the field and many big plays waiting to happen. I feel there are 3 tiers:

Good offense - Add Tannehill, Parker has hi average year and the rookie TE's contribute a little.
Very good offense - Add Tannehill, Parker has a breakout year and the rookie TE's contribute a little.
Excellent offense - Add Tannehill, Parker has a breakout year and the rookie TE's, specifically Gesicki, are big factors all long.

TE's do struggle though and there have been many more highly touted than Gesicki who were quiet as rookies.

Defensively I feel the end group is fantastic and the secondary should be improved. If we can get after QB's and have good coverage look out. I'm worried about the DT group where we have guys from adequate to potentially very good. How does it overcome losing a guy that was elite?

The LB's also worry me. Kiko was bad last year. So many times I felt like one cut caused him to be outrun and miss tackles. It seems like he will be a 3 down backer again in 2018. I like what I'm hearing about Raekwon but his scouting report says he struggles in coverage. If he's a 2 down thumper I don't know how often we can expect to see him out there. Seriously, we're always in nickel. If he can't play nickel I'm not sure he can be as big a factor as we are expecting here. Than there's Anthony who struggles with anything other than his assignment and a rookie in Baker. I think this is the level you attack as an offense. Short passes to backs and TE's, get us in Nickel and cram it down our throats with the average DT's, pass rushing DE's and suspect LB's.

Defense worries me more than offense. All in all though we overcame a worse defense in 2016, I think we win 10 and sneak into the Tourney. We shall see. Nothing would make me happier than to knock NE off they're pedestal while Brady is still playing.
 
I think everyone should be able to acknowledge that the OL and QB spots have been upgraded considerably, while admitting that the skill position groups (WR, TE, RB) are more in the realm of arguability.

Frankly, that's where I'd like to be more often than not. Let me know that my QB and OL are doing fine, and I can forgive some bull/bear disagreements at the skill positions.

That's not to say I want to be in a position where it's clear that my WR, TE, and/or RBs groups have gotten objectively, significantly worse. That's different. In that case we wouldn't really be talking about subjective disagreements or glass half-full/half-empty. Just empty. Nobody likes that at any position.
 
ckparrothead said:
I think everyone should be able to acknowledge that the OL and QB spots have been upgraded considerably, while admitting that the skill position groups (WR, TE, RB) are more in the realm of arguability.

Frankly, that's where I'd like to be more often than not. Let me know that my QB and OL are doing fine, and I can forgive some bull/bear disagreements at the skill positions.

That's not to say I want to be in a position where it's clear that my WR, TE, and/or RBs groups have gotten objectively, significantly worse. That's different. In that case we wouldn't really be talking about subjective disagreements or glass half-full/half-empty. Just empty. Nobody likes that at any position.
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Agreed. There are steps in building a team. step one is getting rid of the worst players (e.g., Bushrod, JT). That has happened. Step two is getting as many above average players as possible. I think progress has been made here, but, for now, a number of those are undetermined. Step three. - improve depth. It's hard to argue this hasn't been done overall. When people start debating whether any player WILL be a top player, that's a far different mind set than will he be as bad as last year.
 
I think we're over looking our field goal kicker
in the last 10 years we've had 39 games decided by 3 points or less

The last 2 years it's been 8 games

If our kicker lays an egg we could be looking at a disaster of a season
if he's outstanding the pendulum will swing the opposite way
 
Like the potential here really just a question of how rusty RT will be and how long some of the new members will take time to jell. Thats on the coaching imo more than the players.
Downgrade- Kicker
Unknown - QB position Compared to last year with a healthy RT and Moore who looked good going into the prior years playoffs compared to a RT this year whom has been off the field a year and a half, a inexperienced floating free agent Fales and the oft cut Osswiller.
Push Wash- Running back Thats the best I will say when comparing this years group compared to Jay A., Drake and Williams to this years group which consists of Drake, the rookie Ballage and the aging Gore.
Maybe upgrade - Wide recievers and TE. Why how many way can you spell injuries. Sure we have talent but Parker, Amendola have big injury concerns and are main targets, Stills gets beat up and disappears at times, Grant and Wilson are fast but unknowns still which leaves many of us debating if a Forde or fading Caroo can help replace Laundry.
Now the tight end is a exciting group but hugely inexperienced with Gesicki, Smythe and a seldom used returning Gray. Hum
Improved - Offensive line Like the depth and experience by a long shot compared to last years group. Happy we resigned James just not the price.
 
fansinceGWilson said:
This one is more difficult because there seems to be more emotion to some players.
The projected comparisons are . . .

OC - Pouncey v Kilgore - equal. The ability for an OLman to practice during game week can not be overstated. Pouncey couldn't. Kilgore can. And the OL din't seem to suffer when Brendel subbed for Pouncey.
OG - Larsen/Bushrod v Davis/Sitton - no debate. Better
OT - Tunsil/James v no change - equal
WR - Stills/Parker/Landry v Stills/Parker/who knows - difficult for a number of reasons. The debate over Landry, which seeps in to discussions on Amendola and Wilson. Not listed, but Grant '18 should put up better numbers than Grant '17. IMO, equal at worst.
TE - JT/Fasano v Gesicki/pick one. Better.
QB - Cutler v Tannehill. No discussion neded
RB - Ajayii/Drake/Williams - Drake/Gore/Ballage. Another emotional position. I wasn't a huge fan of Ajayi. Not that he wasn't good, but he seemed addicted to 200 yard games and would bounce in the hope of 20 yards instead of powering for 3. And I was no fan of Williams. Plus, a better receiving group. Better.

I see no 'worse' positions and 3 obviously better positions. depth appears better.
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OC - Agree. I actually expect a slight, but noticeable uptic with Kilgore due to both his availability and his performance stats last year when he was protecting Garoppolo.
OG - Agree. I would say the improvement will be more than just noticeable.
OT - Agree. Looking forward to improvement in the form of fewer penalties.
WR - Disagree. I think we will be significantly better having the ball distributed more evenly over at least 4 WR's.
TE - Agree. I suspect we will be using 3 TE's with a rotation that uses one of them as a blocking fullback and still placing two TE's in the formation. This will be fun to watch.
QB - Agree. Discussion should be focused on what level of performance Tannehill will achieve. There are lots of stats to measure a QB's performance with most favoring one specific aspect of QB play. I will use the Passer rating stat and anticipate it will be over 105 at the end of the year. I realize that "it take two to tango" when establishing this stat and I believe the results of the last three years of good drafting are going to bear fruit. I see this as a very big year for Tannehill.
RB - Agree. The question for me is how much better will they be. The prospect of having many good RB's that can also catch and block opens up everything. I have no idea about how good they will be, but I am sure it will leave me smiling.
Depth - Agree. The only question in my mind is how much better they will be. Considering the playing time many of our players got last year and this years teams' potential for rotating a few players during the game to keep the line fresh without destroying its integrity should not be ignored.
I see everything improving and improving in a coordinated way that gives our offense a level of balance that was not there before.
 
I've said this before and I'm sticking to it....

Tannehill coming back to the Fins offense will be the single BIGGEST upgrade to any offense in the entire league, the only chance for someone being more important is if one of the rookie QBs plays amazingly and leads a crappy team to the playoffs, which I dont see happening this year although I do think Rosen and Mayfield both have a chance to be very good.

When you add in our lucky 1st round draft pick this year, Raekwon coming back as basically an extra 2nd rounder and the positive changes in other areas I really think we go 10-6 this year.
 
Ray R said:
OC - Agree. I actually expect a slight, but noticeable uptic with Kilgore due to both his availability and his performance stats last year when he was protecting Garoppolo.
OG - Agree. I would say the improvement will be more than just noticeable.
OT - Agree. Looking forward to improvement in the form of fewer penalties.
WR - Disagree. I think we will be significantly better having the ball distributed more evenly over at least 4 WR's.
TE - Agree. I suspect we will be using 3 TE's with a rotation that uses one of them as a blocking fullback and still placing two TE's in the formation. This will be fun to watch.
QB - Agree. Discussion should be focused on what level of performance Tannehill will achieve. There are lots of stats to measure a QB's performance with most favoring one specific aspect of QB play. I will use the Passer rating stat and anticipate it will be over 105 at the end of the year. I realize that "it take two to tango" when establishing this stat and I believe the results of the last three years of good drafting are going to bear fruit. I see this as a very big year for Tannehill.
RB - Agree. The question for me is how much better will they be. The prospect of having many good RB's that can also catch and block opens up everything. I have no idea about how good they will be, but I am sure it will leave me smiling.
Depth - Agree. The only question in my mind is how much better they will be. Considering the playing time many of our players got last year and this years teams' potential for rotating a few players during the game to keep the line fresh without destroying its integrity should not be ignored.
I see everything improving and improving in a coordinated way that gives our offense a level of balance that was not there before.
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I'm struggling with "everything." I still think there are upgrades few can deny based on likelihood - Tannehill over Cutler, Gesicki over JT, Sitton over Bushrod, McMillan over Maualuga, Fitz over no-FS-last-year, and depth at a number of positions. OTOH, there are 'projections' that are less certain. X, Tank, Harris, Tunsil, Drake - those type are more open to debate. I agree the O and D are improved overall, but "everything" requires all the potential upgrades to work out.
 
I find the thinking behind the WR position a little sad. Most people on here (myself included) would've been happy giving Landry 10-13 million a year. Now that he is gone, Miami's WR positions are equal when filling a spot manned by a 15million a year player with a couple of guys. Is it only now that we realize Landry's slot position, routes and schemed plays are what made him?
 
fansinceGWilson said:
I'm struggling with "everything." I still think there are upgrades few can deny based on likelihood - Tannehill over Cutler, Gesicki over JT, Sitton over Bushrod, McMillan over Maualuga, Fitz over no-FS-last-year, and depth at a number of positions. OTOH, there are 'projections' that are less certain. X, Tank, Harris, Tunsil, Drake - those type are more open to debate. I agree the O and D are improved overall, but "everything" requires all the potential upgrades to work out.
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True, and I think this is exactly what is going to happen.
 
TeeMoney said:
I find the thinking behind the WR position a little sad. Most people on here (myself included) would've been happy giving Landry 10-13 million a year. Now that he is gone, Miami's WR positions are equal when filling a spot manned by a 15million a year player with a couple of guys. Is it only now that we realize Landry's slot position, routes and schemed plays are what made him?
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There's a little hypocrisy in some of these evaluations. Claiming any player will play well leads to accusations of homer-ism. Meanwhile, claiming Miami will do poorly because NONE of the changes will likely work is referred to as 'realistic.'
Thus,, we get statements like 'just pay the guy,' as if all good teams do that. I was one hoping Landry would be retained, but it didn't work. Now, I like the WR talent in spite of the 'no #1 WR' hand-wringing.

Nonetheless, it seems to be a consensus the only position group viewed as a downgrade is DT. All others are equal to improved. The debate now should be 'how much improvement' and that will take til October to answer.
 
russdoe said:
I'm most scared of whoever our kicker is costing us a game or two unless the offense puts up 30 points
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I do hope the coaches and front office know what they are doing with the kicker situation. Just when it seemed we might have a reliable kicker, we are back to unknown at best. Like you say if it goes south it could easily cost us multiple games. Hell, the NE dynasty was darn near launched on the leg of a kicker.
 
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