Vegas odds. What's going on here | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Vegas odds. What's going on here

Dolphins -3 against the Broncos. I'm not a betting man but I'm thinking about taking out a second mortgage and putting it on the Fins for this one šŸ¤£

yup, i thought miami would be giving 7 or so... seems easy -3 but who knows. also the Patriots are giving ONLY 1 to the texans... i thought that would be 5 or 6.
as hard as it is to root for the patriots, i do hope they beat the texans
 
It's all based on power ratings. They don't change quickly, certainly not nearly as rapidly as public perception.

In fact, this number is actually a bit inflated based on every set of power ratings I've looked at. Most have the Dolphins somewhere in the neighborhood of 4.5 to 5 points above Denver, which would made the spread below a field goal. But the oddsmakers realize that public perception and even wise guy perception is toward a developing gap between these two teams, which is why the number opened slightly higher than power ratings would suggest.

There was late money on Miami yesterday, shoving the number from -1.5 to -2.5. There has been late money on the Dolphins many times this season and it has collected more often than not. Trust me, oddsmakers pay attention to that type of thing exponentially more than anything regarding football fundamentals. There has already been money on the Dolphins in this game, with joints now at -3 -120 or -3.5.

Somebody mentioned lack of running game in this thread, toward explanation of a low spread. You could sit through oddsmaker discussion of 1000 games and never hear anything about a running game. They don't care about technical football at all. It's 4-6 guys sitting around with the same sets of power ratings, and discussing where to open the new numbers, based on those power ratings, the home field adjustment (if any) and where they expect the money to go. The chief oddsmaker listens to everybody and then has final say.

It's too bad the weekly Las Vegas Seven went out of business a few years ago. They had a great article based on an actual oddsmaker session, of NCAA tournament games. That article was also online and included pictures of the session plus the dialog as a game was dissected and the line set. It is the only time I have ever seen the process depicted accurately. It is nothing like the public prefers to believe. Games are finished in 30 to 60 seconds tops. Nothing complicated at all. You'll almost never hear the name of a player or coach. In particular I used to link that article on a Canes site where the user base is nothing but Simplistic Angry Males who refused to believe the lines were based on power ratings. Unfortunately the print edition of Las Vegas Seven ended in 2017 and the online content was removed not much later.

Before I forget, here is the Jeff Sagarin NFL power ratings. He has the Dolphins roughly 4.5 points higher, at 22.00 to Denver at 17.53:


Keep in mind the oddsmakers and professional bettors are swamped. They are dealing with multiple sports and hundreds of games and props. I am not wagering as much as previously but right now I am still mentally exhausted from 25+ Masters wagers. I mention this only because fans on a specialized site like this are fixated on one point spread...Dolphins at Broncos. But the guys hanging the numbers only care about applying the same math-based formula all year long, and relying on the 11/10 advantage to grind a decent house take. That's why it has to be quick and subjectivity free.

Professional bettors likewise will view the game as one among many. If the Dolphins win 30-10 and you tell them Miami -3 was the greatest bet of all time and the stupidest line you've ever seen, they'll smile and recommend you don't do this full time. An upstart team on a 5-game winning streak and now road favorite is just the type of thing situational bettors like to oppose. Many sharp guys will wager on Denver for that reason alone. Some of them won't know who Drew Lock is. I'm not saying I would go that way. But I was in that environment for nearly 25 years. Situational analysis dominates the mindset of that type, just like fandom and technical football dominates on sites like this. They won't see this game as Miami at Denver, with all the related particulars. It will be viewed as a team that was supposed to win 6 games in 2020 and now has 6 already, including 5 in a row. Okay, time for some regression to the mean. If they are wrong they'll apply the same thinking and same wager the next time.

I won't have a wager on this game. Most of my underdog angles involve taking the road team. I would have had Chargers yesterday if that game had ever reached +4. Fortunately it did not. Same with this game. I would have Denver plus the points if the game were at Miami.

BTW, one of the reasons the Chargers line was so low is that they were 2-6. That was a popular angle throughout my years in Las Vegas...bet on NFL road underdogs during the second half of the season if their winning percentage is 25% or lower. It has an excellent history so guys play every one. But obviously you have to be able to stomach some dreadful teams and know you'll get hammered from time to time.

Incredible post. So much knowledge and insight from someone who obviously knows but doesnā€™t feel the need to come off as pretentious.

A++++. Would read again. Have already read twice.

Awsi Dooger Locks should be a weekly post.
 
This is gonna be a nasty game. Hope we donā€™t turn the ball over a lot. Worried about ball security this game
 
It's all based on power ratings. They don't change quickly, certainly not nearly as rapidly as public perception.

In fact, this number is actually a bit inflated based on every set of power ratings I've looked at. Most have the Dolphins somewhere in the neighborhood of 4.5 to 5 points above Denver, which would made the spread below a field goal. But the oddsmakers realize that public perception and even wise guy perception is toward a developing gap between these two teams, which is why the number opened slightly higher than power ratings would suggest.

There was late money on Miami yesterday, shoving the number from -1.5 to -2.5. There has been late money on the Dolphins many times this season and it has collected more often than not. Trust me, oddsmakers pay attention to that type of thing exponentially more than anything regarding football fundamentals. There has already been money on the Dolphins in this game, with joints now at -3 -120 or -3.5.

Somebody mentioned lack of running game in this thread, toward explanation of a low spread. You could sit through oddsmaker discussion of 1000 games and never hear anything about a running game. They don't care about technical football at all. It's 4-6 guys sitting around with the same sets of power ratings, and discussing where to open the new numbers, based on those power ratings, the home field adjustment (if any) and where they expect the money to go. The chief oddsmaker listens to everybody and then has final say.

It's too bad the weekly Las Vegas Seven went out of business a few years ago. They had a great article based on an actual oddsmaker session, of NCAA tournament games. That article was also online and included pictures of the session plus the dialog as a game was dissected and the line set. It is the only time I have ever seen the process depicted accurately. It is nothing like the public prefers to believe. Games are finished in 30 to 60 seconds tops. Nothing complicated at all. You'll almost never hear the name of a player or coach. In particular I used to link that article on a Canes site where the user base is nothing but Simplistic Angry Males who refused to believe the lines were based on power ratings. Unfortunately the print edition of Las Vegas Seven ended in 2017 and the online content was removed not much later.

Before I forget, here is the Jeff Sagarin NFL power ratings. He has the Dolphins roughly 4.5 points higher, at 22.00 to Denver at 17.53:


Keep in mind the oddsmakers and professional bettors are swamped. They are dealing with multiple sports and hundreds of games and props. I am not wagering as much as previously but right now I am still mentally exhausted from 25+ Masters wagers. I mention this only because fans on a specialized site like this are fixated on one point spread...Dolphins at Broncos. But the guys hanging the numbers only care about applying the same math-based formula all year long, and relying on the 11/10 advantage to grind a decent house take. That's why it has to be quick and subjectivity free.

Professional bettors likewise will view the game as one among many. If the Dolphins win 30-10 and you tell them Miami -3 was the greatest bet of all time and the stupidest line you've ever seen, they'll smile and recommend you don't do this full time. An upstart team on a 5-game winning streak and now road favorite is just the type of thing situational bettors like to oppose. Many sharp guys will wager on Denver for that reason alone. Some of them won't know who Drew Lock is. I'm not saying I would go that way. But I was in that environment for nearly 25 years. Situational analysis dominates the mindset of that type, just like fandom and technical football dominates on sites like this. They won't see this game as Miami at Denver, with all the related particulars. It will be viewed as a team that was supposed to win 6 games in 2020 and now has 6 already, including 5 in a row. Okay, time for some regression to the mean. If they are wrong they'll apply the same thinking and same wager the next time.

I won't have a wager on this game. Most of my underdog angles involve taking the road team. I would have had Chargers yesterday if that game had ever reached +4. Fortunately it did not. Same with this game. I would have Denver plus the points if the game were at Miami.

BTW, one of the reasons the Chargers line was so low is that they were 2-6. That was a popular angle throughout my years in Las Vegas...bet on NFL road underdogs during the second half of the season if their winning percentage is 25% or lower. It has an excellent history so guys play every one. But obviously you have to be able to stomach some dreadful teams and know you'll get hammered from time to time.
Excellent writeup. I dabble myself. I am all over the dolphins here, because i don't think vegas has caught on yet
 
Things to consider with the Dolphins and bad weather....

1. It snows, and Miami has no running game? The Defense will eventually get the ball close to a score, or score a TD themselves, while the rest of the game keeping the QB in "Hearing Footsteps" mode.

2. Passing on Miami in good weather is dangerous, passing in bad puts your QB in constant danger of getting steamrolled, or throwing a pick.

3. Defending a running game seems to be Miami's biggest weakness (A weakness that seems less and less of a problem with Miami), but snows also slows down a running game, so it actually works in Miami's favor.

4. Miami has also a good special teams, so field position and being able to score long FGs works into Miami's game.

5. Finally this is Flores 2nd year, with some coaches this being being only their 1st year in Miami, but even then...this coaching staff can coach. END OF STORY
 
I still hope it snows. I think the way Ahmed runs, he'll be good in the snow. His feet remind me a little of Keith Byers on Thanksgiving.
 
It's all based on power ratings. They don't change quickly, certainly not nearly as rapidly as public perception.

In fact, this number is actually a bit inflated based on every set of power ratings I've looked at. Most have the Dolphins somewhere in the neighborhood of 4.5 to 5 points above Denver, which would made the spread below a field goal. But the oddsmakers realize that public perception and even wise guy perception is toward a developing gap between these two teams, which is why the number opened slightly higher than power ratings would suggest.

There was late money on Miami yesterday, shoving the number from -1.5 to -2.5. There has been late money on the Dolphins many times this season and it has collected more often than not. Trust me, oddsmakers pay attention to that type of thing exponentially more than anything regarding football fundamentals. There has already been money on the Dolphins in this game, with joints now at -3 -120 or -3.5.

Somebody mentioned lack of running game in this thread, toward explanation of a low spread. You could sit through oddsmaker discussion of 1000 games and never hear anything about a running game. They don't care about technical football at all. It's 4-6 guys sitting around with the same sets of power ratings, and discussing where to open the new numbers, based on those power ratings, the home field adjustment (if any) and where they expect the money to go. The chief oddsmaker listens to everybody and then has final say.

It's too bad the weekly Las Vegas Seven went out of business a few years ago. They had a great article based on an actual oddsmaker session, of NCAA tournament games. That article was also online and included pictures of the session plus the dialog as a game was dissected and the line set. It is the only time I have ever seen the process depicted accurately. It is nothing like the public prefers to believe. Games are finished in 30 to 60 seconds tops. Nothing complicated at all. You'll almost never hear the name of a player or coach. In particular I used to link that article on a Canes site where the user base is nothing but Simplistic Angry Males who refused to believe the lines were based on power ratings. Unfortunately the print edition of Las Vegas Seven ended in 2017 and the online content was removed not much later.

Before I forget, here is the Jeff Sagarin NFL power ratings. He has the Dolphins roughly 4.5 points higher, at 22.00 to Denver at 17.53:


Keep in mind the oddsmakers and professional bettors are swamped. They are dealing with multiple sports and hundreds of games and props. I am not wagering as much as previously but right now I am still mentally exhausted from 25+ Masters wagers. I mention this only because fans on a specialized site like this are fixated on one point spread...Dolphins at Broncos. But the guys hanging the numbers only care about applying the same math-based formula all year long, and relying on the 11/10 advantage to grind a decent house take. That's why it has to be quick and subjectivity free.

Professional bettors likewise will view the game as one among many. If the Dolphins win 30-10 and you tell them Miami -3 was the greatest bet of all time and the stupidest line you've ever seen, they'll smile and recommend you don't do this full time. An upstart team on a 5-game winning streak and now road favorite is just the type of thing situational bettors like to oppose. Many sharp guys will wager on Denver for that reason alone. Some of them won't know who Drew Lock is. I'm not saying I would go that way. But I was in that environment for nearly 25 years. Situational analysis dominates the mindset of that type, just like fandom and technical football dominates on sites like this. They won't see this game as Miami at Denver, with all the related particulars. It will be viewed as a team that was supposed to win 6 games in 2020 and now has 6 already, including 5 in a row. Okay, time for some regression to the mean. If they are wrong they'll apply the same thinking and same wager the next time.

I won't have a wager on this game. Most of my underdog angles involve taking the road team. I would have had Chargers yesterday if that game had ever reached +4. Fortunately it did not. Same with this game. I would have Denver plus the points if the game were at Miami.

BTW, one of the reasons the Chargers line was so low is that they were 2-6. That was a popular angle throughout my years in Las Vegas...bet on NFL road underdogs during the second half of the season if their winning percentage is 25% or lower. It has an excellent history so guys play every one. But obviously you have to be able to stomach some dreadful teams and know you'll get hammered from time to time.
I also believe most profesional power ratings weigh turnovers down as they introduce alot of noise into predictive models. Turnovers and blocked punts always big candidates to regress to the means. In other words, I believe the 22 Fins rating would be higher than that if so many of their points didnt come off turnovers and low percentage plays... Could be way off here, would really like your input on this.
 
I still hope it snows. I think the way Ahmed runs, he'll be good in the snow. His feet remind me a little of Keith Byers on Thanksgiving.
Not really, but memories of the "snow angel" always makes me smile.

Keith was a great player. Could play TE just as well as RB.
 
Snow expected on Saturday.. this team traveling with no running game in a bad weather situation. I definitely see you're point but what's a good number 5?
Looked like we had a pretty good running game on Sunday against the chargers to me.
 
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