Very tough call facing Miami Dolphins as the DeVonta Smith/Ja’Marr Chase debate rages

[Kamelion4291]

Come on now, you are really gonna pull that out? Tom Brady has 7 of those 20 wins and was in 10 of the 20. If you want to discuss percentages then don't twist them around.

So if you want to go with this year, 13 of the top 20 receivers were not on playoff teams, and 20 of the top 30 receivers were not on playoff teams.

Newsflash: Outside of QBs who have the most immediate impact on winning and losing of any other position by a long shot, for every other position more players in their respective top 20 are not going to be on playoff teams.

When you make the claim that WRs aren't moving the needle and that you value them less than linebackers (what?), then maybe try and show that the top linebackers are littered all over playoff rosters, otherwise you're just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks.

 

[Feverdream]

Oh, I've comprehended it just fine. What you're actually saying is that every single WR in college in any year should get downgraded and have question marks about their abilities to play against press because they're not playing against 27 year olds in college (duh?).

It may be the most pointless reason to post I've ever seen.

Nope... you don't get it at all. No surprise.

 

[Feverdream]

losing a fair amount of credibility with that take

Why?

Because I disagree with you?

 

[Pandarilla]

Rather take Sewell and trade up for a Waddle or Pitts and if I can't trade up, take Harris. You simply won't get the value taking a WR at three.

Sewell and Harris might be the best combo for us anyway.

 

[rent this space]

Why?

Because I disagree with you?

Yeah, me and pretty much the entire civilized world.
Tell me, have you seen many mocks with him going in the 2nd round? How about any scouts agreeing with your assessment? Anyone on TV? When you say he’s a “gadget“ player who won’t beat press coverage or not good enough for the 1st round really makes it seem like you’re not very familiar with Davonta Smith

 

[ONole1]

Newsflash: Outside of QBs who have the most immediate impact on winning and losing of any other position by a long shot, for every other position more players in their respective top 20 are not going to be on playoff teams.

When you make the claim that WRs aren't moving the needle and that you value them less than linebackers (what?), then maybe try and show that the top linebackers are littered all over playoff rosters, otherwise you're just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks.

I believe in my original post I said sometimes LB's, but keep cherry picking bits and pieces and ignore the rest. As I mentioned, IMO top ten players are QB's (for obvious reasons), OT, CB, Edge, and sometimes LB's. Those sometimes LB's are few and far between, but a guy like Luke Kuechly is going to have more impact on a game than a receiver that may get 13 targets.

Bottom line is, I'm not a fan of picking WR's in the top 10, I just don't see the ROI. You differ, that's fine. I don't see a need to keep this going.

 

[Feverdream]

Yeah, me and pretty much the entire civilized world.
Tell me, have you seen many mocks with him going in the 2nd round? How about any scouts agreeing with your assessment? Anyone on TV? When you say he’s a “gadget“ player who won’t beat press coverage or not good enough for the 1st round really makes it seem like you’re not very familiar with Davonta Smith

I have said over and over... that Smith WILL go in the first round, I have no doubts on that...

But I have also said that it will be a mistake. Undersized WRs get overdrafted many times.

It is my opinion that drafting Smith and then having to scheme him off the line would be a like overpaying for a stock and then trying to goose it's value.

...and I am VERY familiar with Smith, I just have a different opinion than yours over his next level potential, I don't think he'll fare well against older and stronger opponents in a more balanced league. This is very consistent with how any prospect is judged when raising a level of competition.

If you think having a different opinion means that I lose some sort of credibility.., then fine, I'm not here to strive for anyone's opinion.

 

[Finsfan1984]

First off, Keyshawn has always been an idiot...
When I see Smith I immediately think of Marvin Harrison, then maybe Isaac Bruce. Both really slim coming out and had great success. My next thought, Smith gets separation and Chase doesn’t, Better hands, better route runner, better speed, better/higher character. Not to mention CLICKS w/TUA already.
Chase is stronger with better size and has advantage on contested balls, that is it. Bateman offers same WR traits/abilities as Chase but with better value, and he’s a better route runner.

My WR order is...

Smith
Waddle
Chase/Bateman.

 

[rent this space]

It is my opinion that drafting Smith and then having to scheme him off the line would be a like overpaying for a stock and then trying to goose it's value.

...and I am VERY familiar with Smith, I just have a different opinion than yours over his next level potential, I don't think he'll fare well against older and stronger opponents in a more balanced league. This is very consistent with how any prospect is judged when raising a level of competition.

If you’re VERY familiar with him, how do you not know he is excellent against the press? He was considered the best WR in college football against the press, seems like would do much better than a guy like Chase who actually did struggle against college level press coverage. Tell me it wasn’t because you saw his weight and made an opinion based on only that?

 

[Feverdream]

If you’re VERY familiar with him, how do you not know he is excellent against the press? He was considered the best WR in college football against the press, seems like would do much better than a guy like Chase who actually did struggle against college level press coverage. Tell me it wasn’t because you saw his weight and made an opinion based on only that?

You did see where I said... step up in competition... and older/stronger players? Umm... right?

 

[NBP81]

Rather take Sewell and trade up for a Waddle or Pitts and if I can't trade up, take Harris. You simply won't get the value taking a WR at three.

Sewell and Harris might be the best combo for us anyway.

Why is T better value than WR in this particular situation in your opinion?

 

[rent this space]

You did see where I said... step up in competition... and older/stronger players? Umm... right?

Yes, I saw that, but if he’s the best of anyone in the draft, would he not fare better than most if not all the rest? If it will stop him, forget about Ja’Marr Chase. Smith was good to the point they stopped using it against him yet you‘re saying it will be the reason he fails. (showing my age) That dog won’t hunt.
You should talk about the physical punishment by “grown men” or “260lb linebackers “ or even ”20 games”. That would be more valid than talking about the press.

 

[Feverdream]

Yes, I saw that, but if he’s the best of anyone in the draft, would he not fare better than most if not all the rest? If it will stop him, forget about Ja’Marr Chase. Smith was good to the point they stopped using it against him yet you‘re saying it will be the reason he fails. (showing my age) That dog won’t hunt.
You should talk about the physical punishment by “grown men” or “260lb linebackers “ or even ”20 games”. That would be more valid than talking about the press.

If he's the best...

You were correct to put the if there. Opinions vary.

 

[Csonked Out]

All the top receivers always have question marks coming into the NFL.

-Smith is one of the leanest elite receivers coming out in a long time and his size will certainly concern a fair share of teams. I personally think he will be a very good receiver at the NFL level but it is a fair question mark that is 100% valid

- With Chase, the big question is can he separate at the NFL level? Is he more of a jump ball receiver or can he seperate both off the line and with his route running

- Waddle is his leg injury. If he is healthy he will be a YAC monster at the NFL but how will the leg heal

Honestly, the receiver with the fewest question marks in my eyes is Rashod Bateman. He can play inside, he can play outside, he is the 2nd best route runner in this draft behind D. Smith(who is the best I have seen in years), and can seperate off the line as well. His only real question is does he have enough speed? He isn't a burner but I personally think he has enough speed for it to not be an issue at all

If I had to rank the top 4 receivers based off of best fit on our team with Tua, it would be the following

1) D Smith
2) Bateman
3) Waddle
4) Chase

Honestly, i'll be happy as long as we get one of the 4 and don't think we need to necessarily use the 3rd overall pick at receiver.

 

[Pandarilla]

Why is T better value than WR in this particular situation in your opinion?

Because one guy looks to have Hall of Fame potential and the WR's all have their question marks...but to give you a straighter answer, it's simply safer. I think WR top 5 has been suspect ever since Matt Millen drafted all those busts in a row. There's always an exception like Calvin Johnson, of course.