Wake and Bake...

[Fish-Head]

I am constantly amazed at how fast a 'discussion' of Wake deteriorates into the simplest of equations... Over and over. CFL sucks so will Wake... CFL has never produced a Defensive player of substance... Add Wake to the list... Again and again... Ad nauseum.

Where is the player analysis..? Where is the 'first step quickness' debate? The strength of technique, use of hands... measureables vs. immeasureables?

:tumbleweed:

Why has Wake become such a lightning rod of criticism of the CFL? The mere mention of his name seems to provoke people like a cattle prod to the 'gems'... The 'level of competition' argument is dead as Dillinger... it died at the inception of the very first draft and every draft since where a player from a small school made an impact on the league... D-E-A-D.

A PLAYER IS A PLAYER IS A PLAYER IS A PLAYER... Should I say it again??? A PLAYER IS A PLAYER.

Didn't get drafted? No sweat. Cut from the 'mighty' New York Giants? Big deal... Excelled in a league in a country more famous for maple syrup than football players? I say bring it on! It is called faith in the coaching staff...

I for one am optimistic that our guys combined with Wake's work ethic/character will make for the 'best opportunity' to mould him into the most evil, man eating, fire breathing mofo of a football player he can possibly be... Then again he might just be a lamb in wolf's clothing... It ain't a sure thing and precious little is... but is it enough? Don't know, can't answer... but what is wrong with being a little excited to see how it turns out..?

Why do so many 'realists' (haters) feel the need to spank those of us who are 'optimists' (card carrying members of the sunshine and lollypop brigade) just for backing up the FO in this instance? It is almost pathological... This does not mean that I will be knocking on your door with pamphlets recruiting you for the church of 'Bill Parcells is God'... So Before you say it... Blind faith and blind hate are BOTH... blind.

BUT... If you think that football players can only come from the traditional lineages and that 'ballers only hail from 'BIG PROGRAM U' then you might want to find a new team because these guys have shown they will do whatever it takes to find talent no matter where it is. They are fearless to break with tradition... What is that thing they had so much success with last year..? Umm... Sounded like 'MildRat'? Ohhhh right... 'Wildcat'.

Actually keep it on the Q.T. but just a few moments ago a National Geographic documentary crew sighted Sparano in a pith helmet, contract in hand, in the mighty Saranghetti watching our next number one receiver wrassle a lion for a kill... Seriously it'll be on YouTube any day now...

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

Just goes to show you tolerate little in opposite thinking, without having to goto name calling.
And most people who aren't on the FO lap with this signing, see the CFL and its players for what it is. That's being realistic. Not hate. History is against Wake amounting to little more than a avg D lineman. Measurables this and that, the guy has yet to prove in the NFL he can cut it.
This FO has never been 100% on drafts or free agent signings.

 

[ROADRUNNER]

looking 4word 2 c him on the field, even if its just on st, and on 3rd and long,
cant even think what would go through the mind of the return man when you c 250lbs of pure pain away 2 knock ur head off,
good luck cameron hope u have fun.....

 

[SnakeoilSeller]

I think fans are not being realistic about Wake. They look at him as he will be an immediate superstar or a bust. I look at him as a 25 or 26 year old rookie. A talented rookie, but still a rookie. I think it will take time. I can't wait to see him in the preseason.

 

[JT-forpresident]

I think fans are not being realistic about Wake. They look at him as he will be an immediate superstar or a bust. I look at him as a 25 or 26 year old rookie. A talented rookie, but still a rookie. I think it will take time. I can't wait to see him in the preseason.

i agree on that, 49,9999% of dolfans think wake will be a stud
another 49,9999% thinks he's just another lousy guy trying to make it from the CFL to the nfl...

then, there's this 0,0002% who takes the wait and see approach lol

we do have some actual facts that can help project what he'll become, but there's no certainty...
1- 39 CFL sacks
2- 2 DPOY in the CFL
3- Cut from an nfl trainning camp right after college
4- starter at penn state as OLB and DE
5- Wake finished his collegiate career with 191 total tackles, 8.5 quarterback sacks, and 24 tackles for loss. (wikipedia)
6- nfl strong, nfl fast, nfl big (as of now, not back then)
7- phenomenal work ethic and dedication

 

[ShaBam]

Great post!

What REALLY p****** me off is the people who say, "well the CFL sucks so Wake will suck"...or, "I watched a CFL game and it was awful".

I assure you, the people that say this do not follow the CFL and are in no position to comment. I, on the other hand, have had season tickets for the past ten years and have single handedly witnessed Cameron Wake destroy my team without breaking a sweat. He is the most dominant defensive player in league history IMO. Before he even signed with the Dolphins every single person I spoke to that knows anything said he projects perfectly as a 3-4 OLB.

When I heard we signed him, I was extremely pumped. He will have minimum 5-6 sacks this year, and for his "rookie year", that ain't bad.

 

[Dr. Phin]

I've seen a lot of bad college games too...by teams that sucked...that produced some pretty big studs in the NFL...

A team, league, or conference etc...does not decide the make-up of an individual...

 

[dlockz]

College players dont have a choice about playing in the NFL at anytime while Cameron Wake had his first chance and was unimpressive. Im sure he has improved but excelling in canada is like I have said before equivilant to excelling in WLAF. Players play canada because they cannot play in the NFL.
Not one player in canada would turn down a chance to be a player in the NFL if they thought they had a good shot. Wake may be one of the less than a micro percentile of players that come from Canada and actually turn into a good NFl player. No matter how people want to act like the league is a slight cut below the nfl its not. THe USFL was a slight cut below. THe CFL produces less NFL players than one major college university, its not even a feeder league. The level of talent in this league is equivliant to a a less than average college coonference.

I also agree that a conference does not determine an individual but this individual did fail to make the NFl and was basically demoted to the mid minors. People want to say what you are saying but also want to ignore that he is doing this against linemen that were not even stellar in college.

 

[Fish-Head]

Just goes to show you tolerate little in opposite thinking, without having to goto name calling.
And most people who aren't on the FO lap with this signing, see the CFL and its players for what it is. That's being realistic. Not hate. History is against Wake amounting to little more than a avg D lineman. Measurables this and that, the guy has yet to prove in the NFL he can cut it.
This FO has never been 100% on drafts or free agent signings.

And here we go again... Level of competition and history... Not a mention of the player, his technique, ability, assessment or opinion of him as of today. Just an argument to 'temper expectations' under the guise of being 'realistic' which is actually no argument at all. I say expectations can be a good thing.

Where is the critical comparison? What flaws have you noticed in his game that leads you to these conclusions??? Where is the analysis of the player instead of simple generalizations of the leagues he has played in?

I can honestly say that there is no stronger commitment to mediocrity than a commitment to do things the same way they have been done up to this point... I cannot think of a single great achievement that did not have at least a small measure of these two things...

1) Original thinking.
2) Courage to take a chance.

This is the real difference between our thinking... You probably wouldn't take a chance on Wake because history tells you it's a wasted effort... Whereas I say history tells me... YOU HAVE TO TAKE CHANCES on players like Wake if you want to be more than just 'as good as the other guy'... You have to find an edge where the competition does not. You have to take chances if you want to be great.

So I say bring on the Wakes... Bring on The Jy Bonds... Every failed experiment tells me they are not content to be TOLD that things cannot be done differently.

 

[Fish-Head]

College players dont have a choice about playing in the NFL at anytime while Cameron Wake had his first chance and was unimpressive. Im sure he has improved but excelling in canada is like I have said before equivilant to excelling in WLAF. Players play canada because they cannot play in the NFL.
Not one player in canada would turn down a chance to be a player in the NFL if they thought they had a good shot. Wake may be one of the less than a micro percentile of players that come from Canada and actually turn into a good NFl player. No matter how people want to act like the league is a slight cut below the nfl its not. THe USFL was a slight cut below. THe CFL produces less NFL players than one major college university, its not even a feeder league. The level of talent in this league is equivliant to a a less than average college coonference.

I also agree that a conference does not determine an individual but this individual did fail to make the NFl and was basically demoted to the mid minors. People want to say what you are saying but also want to ignore that he is doing this against linemen that were not even stellar in college.

Sorry 'D' but the entire bulk of this post is built around baseless opinion and supposition... It is simply your opinion that the CFL is a kid's league. It is not the opinion of players who have played in both, it is not the opinion of most GM's in the NFL and it is not the opinion of our FO. Sorry man but if you were in charge we would never have even scouted Wake to begin with! How short sighted is that????

The FO is optimistic about the player to the point where they will outbid other teams for his services... I say that is reason enough to be optimistic... I am not in any way saying he is the next great thing but I also say 'why not'?

Once again this 'level of competition' argument has been put to death a billion times over... And there is a plethora of evidence playing in the league right now to completely disprove any idea that draft order is a guaranteed stamp of quality. One is right under your nose in Davone Bess. The same for this so called Big Program = sure thing...

As to this notion that players shun the league if they have a shot at the 'bigs' you have it completely backwards...MANY Players GO TO THE CFL BEACUSE THEY HAVE A SHOT... If you thought you had a chance to play in the NFL... Would you rather play on a practice squad under the eyes of ONE GM and coach and with all that depth in front of you... Or would you rather play in a league where you have a chance to impress ALL of the Coaches and GM'S in game situations and try to land multiple offers. The math makes sense and that is why agents reccommend a little 'northern exposure' to alot of their clients.

 

[Butterfrog 2.0]

There are so many things wrong with the line of thinking that "The CFL sucks so Wake will suck" or even the fact that not many players who came from the CFL have turned out to be good or great. There are a lot of players in the NFL right now who came from small schools with low levels of competition and succeeded. Also the whole history of it means absolutely nothing just because an OLB has never come from the CFL and dominated in the NFL that doesn't mean it can't happen. If you have a job and there's a bonus incentive for reaching a certain level of production but nobody has acheived it yet are you still going to try for it or are you going to say "Well nobody else has ever done it so why bother"

 

[Fish-Head]

There are so many things wrong with the line of thinking that "The CFL sucks so Wake will suck" or even the fact that not many players who came from the CFL have turned out to be good or great. There are a lot of players in the NFL right now who came from small schools with low levels of competition and succeeded. Also the whole history of it means absolutely nothing just because an OLB has never come from the CFL and dominated in the NFL that doesn't mean it can't happen. If you have a job and there's a bonus incentive for reaching a certain level of production but nobody has acheived it yet are you still going to try for it or are you going to say "Well nobody else has ever done it so why bother"

Exactly ! :thumbup:

I am flabberghasted at the number of people that cannot grasp that the 'level of competition' argument does not apply... It has not been relevant for decades... A PLAYER IS A PLAYER regardless of where he comes from... Good players can be found among bad... Bottom line. Heck they can even be found working at UPS!!! :sidelol:

 

[So Be]

There are so many things wrong with the line of thinking that "The CFL sucks so Wake will suck" or even the fact that not many players who came from the CFL have turned out to be good or great. There are a lot of players in the NFL right now who came from small schools with low levels of competition and succeeded. Also the whole history of it means absolutely nothing just because an OLB has never come from the CFL and dominated in the NFL that doesn't mean it can't happen. If you have a job and there's a bonus incentive for reaching a certain level of production but nobody has acheived it yet are you still going to try for it or are you going to say "Well nobody else has ever done it so why bother"

There are so many stories of guys making it in the NFL when they had little or no shot. Just look at the rescent Phin-related ones.

Wes Welker- The little, slow guy no one wanted, in the Pro Bowl.

D Bess- Another little guy no one wanted, now a fan favorite.

How many other stories can you name? Were there not guys bagging groceries or working for UPS who made it?

Wake, if nothing else, is also a great story of someone who never gave up. Regardless if he came from the CFL, USFL, or was a bartender playing pick-up games, I REALLY hope he makes it and wish him nothing but the best.

I can believe Dolphans thinking he will be a star. It's in a lot of Phans nature, and there's nothing wrong with it.

I CANNOT believe that Dolphans would label him a bust before the guy even puts pads on. I thought that was something for Jet and Pat's fans to do.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

Sorry 'D' but the entire bulk of this post is built around baseless opinion and supposition... It is simply your opinion that the CFL is a kid's league. It is not the opinion of players who have played in both, it is not the opinion of most GM's in the NFL and it is not the opinion of our FO. Sorry man but if you were in charge we would never have even scouted Wake to begin with! How short sighted is that????

The FO is optimistic about the player to the point where they will outbid other teams for his services... I say that is reason enough to be optimistic... I am not in any way saying he is the next great thing but I also say 'why not'?

Once again this 'level of competition' argument has been put to death a billion times over... And there is a plethora of evidence playing in the league right now to completely disprove any idea that draft order is a guaranteed stamp of quality. One is right under your nose in Davone Bess. The same for this so called Big Program = sure thing...

As to this notion that players shun the league if they have a shot at the 'bigs' you have it completely backwards...MANY Players GO TO THE CFL BEACUSE THEY HAVE A SHOT... If you thought you had a chance to play in the NFL... Would you rather play on a practice squad under the eyes of ONE GM and coach and with all that depth in front of you... Or would you rather play in a league where you have a chance to impress ALL of the Coaches and GM'S in game situations and try to land multiple offers. The math makes sense and that is why agents reccommend a little 'northern exposure' to alot of their clients.

Its all opinion. You and the other like minded canadians feel as if you have a viable league. I and many other US fans take the CFL for what it is. One game has the best of the best that is trying to go international. The other is a league where people goto 'get better' or make a living, and is a regional game that resembles football.
If Wake has the measurables you mentioned. Why did it take until he was 27 to be considered for his second chance in the NFL? I said A LONG time ago, if he came in and was a Izzo type player I'd be happy. To some that was still not enough. The guy hasn't done a darn thing in the NFL to date. If the guy can't produce on the level of the expectations set by some here, the egg won't be on my face. I have nothing invested in him. He to me is nothing more than a 27 year old rookie getting a second chance at the league.
My hopes for MIA this year, is to fight and get better week by week. I look forward to seeing further development from the DE's MIA got last year. I look forward to another year of Ricky and Ronnie. Just because I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat for a CFL stud doesn't mean I don't largely agree w/ alot of what this FO has done and cheer the players that were here last year and produced.

And I am wanting to meet a football player in the US, whose goal is to play in the CFL.

 

[dlockz]

Sorry 'D' but the entire bulk of this post is built around baseless opinion and supposition... It is simply your opinion that the CFL is a kid's league. It is not the opinion of players who have played in both, it is not the opinion of most GM's in the NFL and it is not the opinion of our FO. Sorry man but if you were in charge we would never have even scouted Wake to begin with! How short sighted is that????

The FO is optimistic about the player to the point where they will outbid other teams for his services... I say that is reason enough to be optimistic... I am not in any way saying he is the next great thing but I also say 'why not'?

Once again this 'level of competition' argument has been put to death a billion times over... And there is a plethora of evidence playing in the league right now to completely disprove any idea that draft order is a guaranteed stamp of quality. One is right under your nose in Davone Bess. The same for this so called Big Program = sure thing...

As to this notion that players shun the league if they have a shot at the 'bigs' you have it completely backwards...MANY Players GO TO THE CFL BEACUSE THEY HAVE A SHOT... If you thought you had a chance to play in the NFL... Would you rather play on a practice squad under the eyes of ONE GM and coach and with all that depth in front of you... Or would you rather play in a league where you have a chance to impress ALL of the Coaches and GM'S in game situations and try to land multiple offers. The math makes sense and that is why agents reccommend a little 'northern exposure' to alot of their clients.

You are saying alot of things u actually have no clue about. I challenege you to research cfl players and tell me how many even made it close to final cut in the NFL. One major fact outweighs your entire arguement, how many NFL players does the CFL produce yearly. What maybe one.
I dont have anything backwards , no player is passing up a chance to play in the NFL to play in canada unless they dont think they can make it.

You have not proven your level of competition arguement at all. One possible NFL ready player in the entire eight team league while USF alone has at least a couple.

You talk about Bess being undrafted but he did make an NFL team he was not cut in June like everyone's new favorite Wake. Small school players can make it and those that cant like Bess's teammate Mullin play in Canada. He was not even close to making an NFL team like most CFL players.In recent years the CFL talent level has fallen because they no longer compete for players. Are there guys that might have the talent to play in the NFL of course but there is not some slight drop off in talent from this league, its a huge chasm. Almost any player would rather be on an NFL practice squad because they are more likely to play on an NFL team. The odds of any CFL player impressing enough to actually play in the NFL is probably close to 1 in 500 at best, the odds are much better on an NFL practice squad.

So please ramble on how I dont have a clue what Im talking about but for all the love you say these personel guys have for the CFL you would think
more of these guys would make NFL rosters, or maybe they are just being polite. Since 2000 do you even think 10 cfl players have even made an NFL roster. Dont worry I will do some research for you since you want to act like Im clueless. The simple fact is that if the CFL was so close in talent, more CFL players would make the NFL.