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Wanstedts Failures Come to the Forefront

Dajesus

Dajesus

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I also have to include Speiman in this. (Courtesy of NFL Network) Since 2000 the Phins have only 3 starters from those 4 drafts(Randy, CC, and McKinney.) Just last year the Chargers had 4 starters comming from the same draft dispite having their first round pick sit on the bench. I think the Lions had 5 start last year.

I won't be surprised if we get 4 starters tomorrow alone. Goodluck Nick!
 
we can only hope, and pray, in nick we trust, for at least a year or two. Go phins in 2005!
 
Well, one thing you have to consider too. We have alot of talent on this squad. just because it didnt get utilized my <MOD EDIT :tsk:> , doesnt mean it isnt good. its hard to replace talent, because no matter what kind of talent it is, it is going to play on the same par as the vets, in the same system. So, all in all, a Vince Wilkfork, may not be better then a Timbo, in the same system. Or, Shawn Andrews may have had a hell of a time in Miami. I dont blame Carey so much, he is one hell of a technique guy, its just Andrews was better, but improper coaching is the black hole for Offensive linemen.

Lets see how this team performs in 05. I agree, when we hit the third round last draft, wanny basically gave up. Tossing picks away to move down. but, we do have alot of talent, but still no reason to give up.

I look for a productive first day today. Bring in some nice talent, to challenge the starters. A couple OL to play any spot on the line, and a RB or two. Maybe a QB if Orton falls to the KC pick in the 2nd. I like what nick is doing, and think he will do the right things.

Forget the Wanny era, I believe we got big green pastures ahead of us now.
 
I live in the Pittburgh area and it was kind of funny that Wanny was on the local espn radio explaining his drafting stratagies yesterday.:lol: I thought I was rid of whiney wanny, but the weasel showed up in my back yard. Oh well, at least he's not coaching my team.:evil:
 
Drafting Stratagies By Dave Wannstedt?

How to pick 3 starters in 4-5 Drafts?
NO Thanks.....Sorry He was EVER Hired...
 
Don't sell Jimmy Johnson's impact short. He did a lousy job of drafting during his tenure, and the lack of talent he left behind is a big part of the Dolphins' problems. People tend to think of Johnson as a draft genius, but that's mostly based on his success in Dallas. For the most part, the guys you draft in the first four rounds are the ones that should most help your football team. Consider this, in the first four rounds of his drafts, JJ selected the following players:
Dorian Brew
Kirk Pointer
LaCurtis Jones
Yatil Green
Ronnie Ward
Brent Smith
Jerome Daniels
John Avery
Brad Jackson
Larry Shannon
JJ Johnson
Grey Ruegamer

That's a dozen guys who were total failures.
 
i still havent forgotten how NE threw out the notion they were interested in carey, making wanny/spielman nervous enough to trade up ONE SPOT!! what did we give up, a #3, #4? sickening...
 
dolfanmark said:
Don't sell Jimmy Johnson's impact short. He did a lousy job of drafting during his tenure, and the lack of talent he left behind is a big part of the Dolphins' problems. People tend to think of Johnson as a draft genius, but that's mostly based on his success in Dallas. For the most part, the guys you draft in the first four rounds are the ones that should most help your football team. Consider this, in the first four rounds of his drafts, JJ selected the following players:
Dorian Brew
Kirk Pointer
LaCurtis Jones
Yatil Green
Ronnie Ward
Brent Smith
Jerome Daniels
John Avery
Brad Jackson
Larry Shannon
JJ Johnson
Grey Ruegamer

That's a dozen guys who were total failures.
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WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! I will give you the fact that Jimmy DIDNT DRAFT AS WELL AS WELL ALL WOULD HAVE LIKED. However, He never traded away entire drafts either like Speilman and Wanny did. In fact, Jimmy always had a lot of picks. So yes he NEVER HIT IN THE FIRST ROUND - and that killed us. However, when he left this team had the best and the youngest talent on defense in the NFL. With just a few correct decisions we could have been in the middle of several super bowl runs. Wanny never got it done. When Wanny took over the team was much more ready than when Jimmy did.
 
afishfan said:
WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! I will give you the fact that Jimmy DIDNT DRAFT AS WELL AS WELL ALL WOULD HAVE LIKED. However, He never traded away entire drafts either like Speilman and Wanny did. In fact, Jimmy always had a lot of picks. So yes he NEVER HIT IN THE FIRST ROUND - and that killed us. However, when he left this team had the best and the youngest talent on defense in the NFL. With just a few correct decisions we could have been in the middle of several super bowl runs. Wanny never got it done. When Wanny took over the team was much more ready than when Jimmy did.
Click to expand...

You're misled by the fact that Johnson left behind a few quality starters. But, he left behind no depth whatsoever, and almost no offensive talent. Wanny did a lousy job, but our personnel problems have been around for a long time.
 
Jimmy did an excellent job drafting defense and special teams, imo. If you look at every team through those years, you will see a similar number of players that crashed and burned.

It is also a very good point to note that Jimmy tended to stockpile picks - while Wanny traded them away. This is a key to drafting that most don't recognize. New England also has been able to stockpile draft picks.

What good personnel guys know is that they don't know it all. That they will make a lot of mistakes. That they will be very fortunate if 50% of the picks pan out. So, they want as many picks as possible and figure they will hit on half of those.

When you destroy your draft by trading away picks it does two things, both are bad: 1) You have fewer people that you can expect to make the team; and 2) Since you have so much more pressure for the selections you do have to be right, it makes those selections that much more difficult. Under that increased pressure, you tend to "reach" for players, look more for "need" than pure talent, and wind up doing worse with the pick than you would have if you had extra selections.

This was Wanny and Rick's greatest flaw. It is a CRITICAL flaw in their entire analysis as to how to run a draft and accumulate talent. It is why Rick may not make it past the next month or two. He may hold on if he can convince Saban that he is willing to buy into Nick's philosophy and change his thinking.

I'm not saying that Saban will fire him for past mistakes, nor am I saying he should do so for vengeance (as some have falsely accused). But, he just may think, "this guy doesn't get the whole draft philosophy approach - his past judgments show he is not reliable enough for me to put my confidence in him."
 
Yeah JJ picked absolutly no one good in the first round but was excellent in the later rounds picking up guys like Surtain,Madison,Thomas and Taylor.
 
i think saban will find some gems in the late rounds too, we just need more picks
 
MARINO1384 said:
Yeah JJ picked absolutly no one good in the first round but was excellent in the later rounds picking up guys like Surtain,Madison,Thomas and Taylor.
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Surtain was a "2nd round" selection, but JJ actually traded the 1st for the following year to get that selection. JJ did trade up for someone he considered a value.
 
They also showed Baltimore drafts- just friggin studly. It makes a HUGE difference.
 
laxcoach said:
Surtain was a "2nd round" selection, but JJ actually traded the 1st for the following year to get that selection. JJ did trade up for someone he considered a value.
Click to expand...

wow i didn't know that.......why would you trade a first round pick for a second rounder??
 
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