Want to keep Grant now. | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Want to keep Grant now.

The only two reasons I can think of why to keep him.

1. He makes cool off-season videos in which he looks like he could be a good WR.

2. I am attached to the idea the Dolphins will have a Jakeem Grant bobble-hands day in which the football is spring loaded and bounces all over the place.

But now that Tua is putting out off-season videos and I have not heard any rumors the bobble-hands dolls are in production, I am ready to move on.
 
We need to make our stars happy while thinking outside the box. Why not let the guy with the best hands on the team, who probably wouldn't get hurt returning kicks have a go. Christian Wilkins would not be getting many cheap shots taking out on him. They try that with him he would crush them to dust. They would lose more players trying to tackle him than we would lose returning kicks. And just think if he ever got loose and returned one, he would be #1 on the ESPN highlights every week. Christian > Grant
 
Ray R said:
For this comparison to have any meaning, it would have to be in reference with what Grant made his first 3 years as a player.

I'd like to see you present that comparison with corrections for the different value of a dollar for the years involved, so that we can see what their equivalent earnings really were. Then you have something meaningful to compare.

What we don't know is how much Gunnar will make when he gets a new contract. That would be much more telling as to his value of a special teams player.

I hope you see that I'm looking for real equivalencies, not just current pay status. Your comparison used a new players salary which is usually much less money when compared to players who have been given new contracts for similar positions. That makes current salary comparisons in the NFL almost useless.

After re-aligning the salaries to be compared, you should adjust the salary numbers based on the "value of a dollar" for the years salaries being compared. Typically, newer "value of a dollar" is lower then past years values.
Then you have a meaningful comparison worth talking about.

I am looking forward to seeing your updated comparisons.
Click to expand...
Your comparison makes no sense. Ive reread it 3 times and it still doesn't make sense.
 
Ray R said:
For this comparison to have any meaning, it would have to be in reference with what Grant made his first 3 years as a player.

I'd like to see you present that comparison with corrections for the different value of a dollar for the years involved, so that we can see what their equivalent earnings really were. Then you have something meaningful to compare.

What we don't know is how much Gunnar will make when he gets a new contract. That would be much more telling as to his value of a special teams player.

I hope you see that I'm looking for real equivalencies, not just current pay status. Your comparison used a new players salary which is usually much less money when compared to players who have been given new contracts for similar positions. That makes current salary comparisons in the NFL almost useless.

After re-aligning the salaries to be compared, you should adjust the salary numbers based on the "value of a dollar" for the years salaries being compared. Typically, newer "value of a dollar" is lower then past years values.
Then you have a meaningful comparison worth talking about.

I am looking forward to seeing your updated comparisons.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure it is relavent.

The only value (cost) that matters is cost v production as of today. You can also factor in possible future development, but that is certainly not in favor of Grant in this particular case.

It doesn't matter what a dozen eggs cost in 2014, if you are buying eggs today, when your budget is limited by a cap.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Waddle and Bowden can handle punt returns. They're not particularly dangerous, and both players have the skillset to excel in that role.

Kick returns are different/more dangerous, and Bowden doesn't have the skillset to thrive there. Waddle does, but you don't want to risk him there except in HIGH-leverage situations.

Outside of Grant, Miami doesn't have anyone who is appealing in that role, but KR is less important than ever, with fewer opportunities, so it's not such a big deal. I could see Miami keeping Grant as a guy to use in certain packages on offense and to continue handling KR, but he could just as easily get crowded out. If you're trying to run the ball, putting Grant in Jet and Orbit motions with Waddle and Fuller on the field should create a lot of space, and if the D doesn't respect Grant on the motion, he obviously has the speed to make them pay. It just depends on the vision for the offense imo.

Anticipating the question: PR is more about agility and making guys miss in tight spaces; KR is more about pure speed and one-cut ability.
Click to expand...
You’re last paragraph - pure speed for KO and agility/ start-stop ability for PR. We have never had a player in franchise history who excelled at both. In fact from 1970-1991 we went without a KO return for TD (minus the SB in ‘82). Grant has both skill sets and is why he handles both. It’s also why he’s our franchise all time leader in ST scores. And in just 5 seasons. I think we are 4-1 in games he scored. That’s not a coincidence. He’s also not a terrible WR. The patch and pinball RAC last year was a good example as he plays w a low center of gravity. I don’t want my rookie no 1 returning kicks and it’s a stretch to think Bowden can replace Grant’s productivity. I mean, Grant made the pro bowl last year and on merit - not popularity that’s for sure.
 
Mach2 said:
I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure it is relavent.

The only value (cost) that matters is cost v production as of today. You can also factor in possible future development, but that is certainly not in favor of Grant in this particular case.

It doesn't matter what a dozen eggs cost in 2014, if you are buying eggs today, when your budget is limited by a cap.
Click to expand...

Nice try, but I am correct.

Consider the cap used for all the teams. It's the same for all the teams but usually increases each year. This means that a position that pays $100,000 in 2019 might pay $110,000 in 2022. This means that if we want to compare one player using this years salary vs. a 3 year total for another player you have some problems.

1) If you compare based on a 3 year total earnings, you need to do it for both players (that was so obvious that I gave other posters credit for being aware of it and therefore did not "belabor" that point).

2) On an even "playing field", comparing a 2019 salary to a 2022 salary, with the numbers shown in my first paragraph would require a 10% increase in the 2019 salary to be able to compare it to a 2022 salary. You can think of this as the value of a dollar or even as a % of the cap.

3) If one player is on a rookie contract and the other player is on a new contract, it is difficult to see how we could draw a fair performance comparison based on current salary numbers. That is why you would need to go back to the older players rookie contract to find numbers to make a fair and meaningful comparison.

Hopefully you will only need to read this one time - LOL
 
royalshank said:
You’re last paragraph - pure speed for KO and agility/ start-stop ability for PR. We have never had a player in franchise history who excelled at both. In fact from 1970-1991 we went without a KO return for TD (minus the SB in ‘82). Grant has both skill sets and is why he handles both. It’s also why he’s our franchise all time leader in ST scores. And in just 5 seasons. I think we are 4-1 in games he scored. That’s not a coincidence. He’s also not a terrible WR. The patch and pinball RAC last year was a good example as he plays w a low center of gravity. I don’t want my rookie no 1 returning kicks and it’s a stretch to think Bowden can replace Grant’s productivity. I mean, Grant made the pro bowl last year and on merit - not popularity that’s for sure.
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Miami’s is 3-2 when Grant scores a ST TD.
 
Ray R said:
Nice try, but I am correct.

Consider the cap used for all the teams. It's the same for all the teams but usually increases each year. This means that a position that pays $100,000 in 2019 might pay $110,000 in 2022. This means that if we want to compare one player using this years salary vs. a 3 year total for another player you have some problems.

1) If you compare based on a 3 year total earnings, you need to do it for both players (that was so obvious that I gave other posters credit for being aware of it and therefore did not "belabor" that point).

2) On an even "playing field", comparing a 2019 salary to a 2022 salary, with the numbers shown in my first paragraph would require a 10% increase in the 2019 salary to be able to compare it to a 2022 salary. You can think of this as the value of a dollar or even as a % of the cap.

3) If one player is on a rookie contract and the other player is on a new contract, it is difficult to see how we could draw a fair performance comparison based on current salary numbers. That is why you would need to go back to the older players rookie contract to find numbers to make a fair and meaningful comparison.

Hopefully you will only need to read this one time - LOL
Click to expand...
I didn't mean to imply you were incorrect from a theoretical salary comparison standpoint. Only that is is not applicable in a "real world" scenario, where an an artificial (and somewhat random) salary cap, and earning bias in favor of tenured players are imposed.
 
Grant either improves massively at WR through camp and wins a spot or he can go for me.

Competition will either make him as a WR threat in the rotation or he will be returning kicks elsewhere imo.
 
Feverdream said:
Here is the All Pro Punt Returner from last year. Gunnar Olszewski: You will note that he does not make 4M/season like Grant does.

Current Contract​

(UDFA, signed 2019)​

(📝: indicates contract trigger occuring during that year)

YearAgeBase SalaryProrated BonusCap
Number		Cap %Dead Money & Cap Savings
Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
201923$495,000$833$454,5390.2%
202024$675,000$833$631,7150.3%
202125$850,000$834$850,8340.4%$834$850,000
Total$2,020,000$2,500$1,937,088

Click to expand...
Gunner was not established before last season so why would he be on ANY contract outside of rookie pace?

Furthermore, Grant is better and has done it at a much higher level for a much longer period of time.

Once again that pull it out of your rear end thing....
 
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