We Are In A Better Qb Situation Then Any Other Team In The Nfl

[Rocky Landing]

Before we star worrying about a QB's ceiling, maybe we should be concerned with their floor.

Rosen was on such a poor team in terms of coaching and personnel (primarily the offensive line) that he was actually buried beneath his floor. Will he be able to come back from last year? That is the big question in my mind.

I believe he will come out as a better and more balanced QB due to his experience last year. We still need to know how good our coaching staff will turn out, but there is enough experience there to justify a VERY positive attitude about how they will perform. I see our coaching staff as another point in favor of Rosen making SIGNIFICANT improvement this year.

I think you're absolutely right that Rosen's performance suffered greatly in AZ. Their O-line was the worst in the league, and I don't think it was close.

But, I also think that for Rosen is the kind of QB who can't succeed without protection. He has neither the mobility, nor the arm strength. What he is good at is decision-making, and throwing with anticipation. But, without a decent O-line, he will be easy to game-plan for. Lots of press-man coverage, stacking the box, and forcing him to throw quickly, and to the sidelines. It's what happened in AZ, and will likely happen in Miami if they don't fix the right side of its O-line.

 

[Ray R]

I think you're absolutely right that Rosen's performance suffered greatly in AZ. Their O-line was the worst in the league, and I don't think it was close.

But, I also think that for Rosen is the kind of QB who can't succeed without protection. He has neither the mobility, nor the arm strength. What he is good at is decision-making, and throwing with anticipation. But, without a decent O-line, he will be easy to game-plan for. Lots of press-man coverage, stacking the box, and forcing him to throw quickly, and to the sidelines. It's what happened in AZ, and will likely happen in Miami if they don't fix the right side of its O-line.

You are right about a lot of what you say.

I tend to be somewhat optimistic about my Dolphins, even though some of the posters here may feel that may be an understatement.

 

[Rocky Landing]

I think that has more to do with the protection the QB gets then anything else.

I am not in a position to even make an estimate about the Bills offensive line (I don't watch them very often) and there are too many unknowns at this point for me to make any assumptions about the Dolphins offensive line which certainly needs to improve. Our new coaching staff has their work cut out for them, but it is not the insurmountable hurdle a lot of the posters here seem to think it is.

As a matter of fact, it is unclear at this time if and when Rosen will play.

The best prediction I feel I can make is that Fitz may not make it past our 6th game.

I hope that helps.

I think this is absolutely correct. I am a Bills fan, and follow them very closely. Our O-line has been completely overhauled this season. As it stands now, there will likely be one returning starter to the line. And, while they obviously have yet to play a game together, it is hard to imagine how they will not be significantly improved from last season. It's wayyyy to early to tell, but I strongly suspect that the Bills O-line will be much better than Miami's. The good news for Miami is that your TE situation looks damn good. I would think that they will be relied upon to pick up some of that slack.

Also, Josh Allen, his faults notwithstanding, is an incredibly mobile, athletic, and strong athlete. He played last season behind a bottom three O-line (still not as bad as AZ's) and ended up leading our offense in rushing yards. I don't think anyone believes Rosen would be capable of that.

Of course, every quarterback benefits from protection. And being a QB that relies heavily on protection doesn't mean they can't be great (Brady*, for example?). But, if I were to bet, I would give Allen a much better chance of lasting the season, even if Rosen doesn't start until week 7.

I also think you're right that if Fitz starts, he won't go more than six weeks. That fits with his history.

 

[BigNastyFish]

I think this is absolutely correct. I am a Bills fan, and follow them very closely. Our O-line has been completely overhauled this season. As it stands now, there will likely be one returning starter to the line. And, while they obviously have yet to play a game together, it is hard to imagine how they will not be significantly improved from last season. It's wayyyy to early to tell, but I strongly suspect that the Bills O-line will be much better than Miami's. The good news for Miami is that your TE situation looks damn good. I would think that they will be relied upon to pick up some of that slack.

Also, Josh Allen, his faults notwithstanding, is an incredibly mobile, athletic, and strong athlete. He played last season behind a bottom three O-line (still not as bad as AZ's) and ended up leading our offense in rushing yards. I don't think anyone believes Rosen would be capable of that.

Of course, every quarterback benefits from protection. And being a QB that relies heavily on protection doesn't mean they can't be great (Brady*, for example?). But, if I were to bet, I would give Allen a much better chance of lasting the season, even if Rosen doesn't start until week 7.

I also think you're right that if Fitz starts, he won't go more than six weeks. That fits with his history.

Josh Allen is a pretty freaky dude. Superb athlete. Also very bright (i.e., wonderlic wizard @37 -- tho "our QB" Ryan Fitzpatrick holds the record @48)!

As far as mobility etc. We need Rosen to be elusive in the pocket. Sense pressure. Move accordingly while scanning the field. Buy a little time. Beyond that. Set protection. Make the right pre-snap reads. Know when to get rid of the ball. Be smart. Surgical. Precise. Anticipate. And do it correctly. Consistently.

 

[BillsFanInPeace]

Before we start worrying about a QB's ceiling, maybe we should be concerned with their floor.

Rosen was on such a poor team in terms of coaching and personnel (primarily the offensive line) that he was actually buried beneath his floor. Will he be able to come back from last year? That is the big question in my mind.

I believe he will come out as a better and more balanced QB due to his experience last year. We still need to know how good our coaching staff will turn out, but there is enough experience there to justify a VERY positive attitude about how they will perform. I see our coaching staff as another point in favor of Rosen making SIGNIFICANT improvement this year.

I don’t see it. But at the end of the day as I said this entire season should be about giving Rosen the Ball from Day one and going with it to see what you have there. Does it help Fitz picking up 3-4 meaningless wins and then Rosen coming in and playing like crap at times but picking up a couple wins. Now Fins sitting at 10-15 in draft and having to give a TON of assets up to get up for their QB. Or is it better to go with Rosen from jump he fails now in the top 5 for your QB.

And I was a Rosen Fan in the Draft.

 

[phins_4_ever]

Who do you think has the higher likelihood of going down: Allen, or Rosen?

The likelyhood is the same. One bad hit to either one, one bad turn and the knee is shot. Every QB in the NFL has the same chance to go down with an injury.

Having said that neither Allen nor Rosen seem to be injury prone.

 

[BillsFanInPeace]

Josh Allen is a pretty freaky dude. Superb athlete. Also very bright (i.e., wonderlic wizard @37 -- tho "our QB" Ryan Fitzpatrick holds the record @48)!

As far as mobility etc. We need Rosen to be elusive in the pocket. Sense pressure. Move accordingly while scanning the field. Buy a little time. Beyond that. Set protection. Make the right pre-snap reads. Know when to get rid of the ball. Be smart. Surgical. Precise. Anticipate. And do it correctly. Consistently.

There is the issue. Rosen is a statue back there. He is not elusive in the pocket.

 

[BigNastyFish]

There is the issue. Rosen is a statue back there. He is not elusive in the pocket.

Not entirely true. He has shown the ability to sense pressure and move...(there are numerous "break down" videos supporting this). Not at a master level -- but he has shown the ability to move. High level pocket awareness and subsequent movement are RARE qualities -- but I think Rosen has at least the potential to improve in this critical area -- hopefully significantly. If (???) he can do that along with the other points I defined we will be in good hands moving forward.

My opinion. Of course.

BNF

 

[dnespins]

we have the best qb situation in the nfl yet we have 2 guys that are more likely to be out of the league in 2 years than in the playoffs. got it.

 

[Rocky Landing]

The likelyhood is the same. One bad hit to either one, one bad turn and the knee is shot. Every QB in the NFL has the same chance to go down with an injury.

Having said that neither Allen nor Rosen seem to be injury prone.

IMO, the last two words of your post belie your own point. Who has a higher likelihood of getting injured during the season: Sam Bradford or Ben Roethlisberger? If you're being honest, you're going to say Bradford.
Or, another comparison: Who has a higher likelihood of getting injured during the season: Sam Bradford behind a decent O-line, or Sam Bradford behind a sketchy O-line?
I think Allen gets the edge in that department under both comparisons, O-line, and durability.

 

[Aceman_16]

Whelp... I DO like Fitzy!! He is tough as nails and will be LOVED and LOATHED in the same season. He has done this to every AFCE team he has been on. BTW the dude is extremely funny!!

 

[phins_4_ever]

IMO, the last two words of your post belie your own point. Who has a higher likelihood of getting injured during the season: Sam Bradford or Ben Roethlisberger? If you're being honest, you're going to say Bradford.
Or, another comparison: Who has a higher likelihood of getting injured during the season: Sam Bradford behind a decent O-line, or Sam Bradford behind a sketchy O-line?
I think Allen gets the edge in that department under both comparisons, O-line, and durability.

This is getting tedious. It's like talking to nyjunc and Sanchez.

My point is that any QB is at risk with one bad hit or one ill advised twist to have a serious injury. Your OL argument is stupid right now because we are not even halfway through training camp. None of us know what either OL is going to look like. And tbh your argument that because Allen is a more mobile QB he is better off than Rosen is also stupid. Allen exposes himself to much more vicious hits while he is running.

This whole discussion is stupid.

 

[Digital]

We should all be watching college football this year. This could be the most important draft of the next decade for us. We need to watch how these QB's progress and how the QBs drafted this year(Lock and Haskins) play in the NFL.

No doubt. While every year it seems that top QB prospects bubble to the surface and every year talking heads proclaim this to be the best QB draft in a millennium … this 2020 class really does look to have 3 legitimately great prospects. All three of them would be gems for us. Fromm is ideally suited for this system. Tua is the most proven and dynamic. Herbert is the most prototypical from a physical standpoint. All three are accurate, with Fromm being the most consistently accurate and Herbert the least consistently accurate, but all three can fit balls into tight windows. Fromm is the best pre-snap, Tua is the best off-script, and Herbert has the highest upside. Really, three different flavors of YES PLEASE and the Dolphins can solve their QB situation for the next 1.5 decades if we get one of the top 3 picks in the draft.

 

[Rocky Landing]

This is getting tedious. It's like talking to nyjunc and Sanchez.

My point is that any QB is at risk with one bad hit or one ill advised twist to have a serious injury. Your OL argument is stupid right now because we are not even halfway through training camp. None of us know what either OL is going to look like. And tbh your argument that because Allen is a more mobile QB he is better off than Rosen is also stupid. Allen exposes himself to much more vicious hits while he is running.

This whole discussion is stupid.

You've lost whatever point you had. You're trying to tell me that every QB is at equal risk, regardless of the protection they receive from their O-line, or their durability? AND, it's impossible to predict which O-line will be better based on the personnel?

OK, buddy. Guess I must be stupid, because that makes no sense to me. I'll just continue to follow football, and you can follow whatever it is you pay attention to.

 

[phins_4_ever]

You've lost whatever point you had. You're trying to tell me that every QB is at equal risk, regardless of the protection they receive from their O-line, or their durability? AND, it's impossible to predict which O-line will be better based on the personnel?

OK, buddy. Guess I must be stupid, because that makes no sense to me. I'll just continue to follow football, and you can follow whatever it is you pay attention to.

You are a Bills fan after all.