We Suck 1 Year Too Early

[BennySwella]

In 2017 when Bobby McCain was primarily a slot corner, he was one of the best slot corners in the league. You can check the tape on that one.

Tua and Lawrence are not arguable at all. Tua had the best completion percentage on deep throws of any player in college football last year and Trevor Lawrence, as a true freshman, led his team to a national championship.

Let's see Preston Williams make the roster and start some regular season games before crowning him Miami's best receiver. So no, I don't lose this one.

And another post where you said Christian Wilkins wasn't playing well, you can go see the thread of Brian Baldinger, who I trust a hell of a lot more than you on player evaluations, talk about Wilkins being as good as advertised.

By your logic on the Tua/Lawrence thing - Is Brees only good because of Michael Thomas? Is Matt Ryan only good because of Julio Jones? Is Deshaun Watson only good becasue of Deandre Hopkins? Is Mahomes only good because of Kelce and Hill?

You have literally no proof to back up any of your claims. It's just you spouting off a bunch of whataboutisms.

Preston Williams was just a point to the much bigger point that WR's and skill position players are a dime a dozen. There are elite players at every position but some positions are flooded with disposable talent, e.g. WR's and RB's.

My take on Wilkins is a hot take on what I have seen so far. It is too soon to tell either way on the kid, but what I mean is that he does not seem like a world beater and have seen other rookies making bigger impacts on their team, which would have been useful on this team, particularly the rookie guard for the falcons we played who played very well against our line which includes Wilkins the last time I checked.

I don't want to lump Tua and Lawrence together, because I like Lawrence, and don't like Tua, but they undoubtedly benefit from the team they play on. The examples you gave where bad metaphors you are comparing pros to college players and teams. Your best possible comparison in the pros would have been to say has Tom Brady benefited from playing with the greatest coach of all time? Which he undoubtedly has.

 

[hoops]

PFF also said Tua had highest amount of passes with perfect placement in all of college football last year.

Who would argue that on tape? Outside of a once in a while crosser that was to the wrong shoulder that kid was spot on.

 

[coalesce]

Pagano is now the def coordinator for the bears..

I have a different take on tanking..I don’t believe it has much to do with coaches or players, all front office related.

I always remember what Carl Banks said a few years ago on Sirius NFL channel when a caller asked about a team tanking. He said no player or coach ever wants to tank because it could mean their job is eliminated because of the poor performance that led to the tanking. We as fans may want our favorite team to tank because it means the potential of a brighter future for the franchise. It won’t cost us our job. We can choose to be fans or not. A player or coach cannot choose to stay employed if the owner decides that he doesn’t need you for the rebuild.

 

[dol-phan007]

Is Pagano still the coach of the Colts? That's who I was asking about, not Luck. And ultimately, that's my point. Which coach or player is going to willingly sacrifice their career by tanking for the betterment of the franchise?

I agree with you that no coach or player is going to tank on purpose. It will never happen. But, if the owner and GM decides they want to tank to rebuild or to get a player that they want, they will cut players without replacing them with the same quality of players. They will also trade players away for draftpicks and not replace them with the same quality of players. The miami dolphins have done all of those things this offseason. The final outcome will be the coaches and all the players will do their best to win but the talent will not be good enough.

So you can actually try to tank and the coaches and players try to win at the same time.

 

[Wildbill3]

We have needed a franchise QB for a long long time. Not that I'm glad we are bad enough to possibly get the first pick in the draft but I think that is the only way (other than trading away many picks with future 1st round picks) to get a top QB that will be with us for the next 15 years.

I feel that we are bad 1 year too early with Trevor Lawrence coming out in 2021. Maybe I'm crazy but im not 100% sure that Tua will be who we think want him to be.

I wish there was a loophole in the system that allowed us to draft Trevor Lawrence if we happened to pick first.

Don’t worry, we have a great chance of sucking next year too.

 

[Indigofire11]

I'm honestly feeling like we have our guy with Rosen!

 

[Kyndig]

We have needed a franchise QB for a long long time. Not that I'm glad we are bad enough to possibly get the first pick in the draft but I think that is the only way (other than trading away many picks with future 1st round picks) to get a top QB that will be with us for the next 15 years.

I feel that we are bad 1 year too early with Trevor Lawrence coming out in 2021. Maybe I'm crazy but im not 100% sure that Tua will be who we think want him to be.

I wish there was a loophole in the system that allowed us to draft Trevor Lawrence if we happened to pick first.

There are 3 and possibly 4 elite Franchise QB prospects in next years draft: Tua, Herbert, Love, & Frohm. This is an excellent year to suck if you need a franchise QB. Those seem to be some very good prospects and there are quite a few of them. Sure, Trevor Lawrence looks amazing and would probably be first amongst that group, but still we will have the best chance we have had in many years to finally land one next year, so embrace the suckiness and rejoice that we will have something to hope for in 2020.

 

[Kamelion4291]

I wish it weren’t a binary discussion, but some posters have made it so by saying Tua is sure fire and the team should tank to guarantee that we get the first overall pick and draft him. Fine, let’s say that happens. Then what? Take the chance of possibly turning him into another David Carr because the OL is so atrocious that he’s sacked 4-5 times a game? He could tear an ACL in November or January and seriously screw up his draft standing. Who knows, and that’s the point. No one knows what’s going to happen. Deciding to throw away an entire season on the hope that one player will be there in the draft and that they will be the one to definitely help turn the entire franchise around is ridiculous. Name one time that has happened (not you necessarily, but anyone). Name one team’s braintrust that has decided to completely tank the season and jeopardize their own careers simply for the sake of drafting one player in an upcoming draft.

Colts which is why they have Luck.

I agree that drafting Tua and putting him behind this line is franchise suicide, but we have like +$120m in cap space next season so let's say they end up with Tua. That's a lot of money and other draft picks to fortify the lines with.

Also, I don't really understand what you mean by "throwing away an entire season". We aren't going anywhere this year regardless, so what's the benefit to winning 5 games instead of 2? You get 3 additional happy Sundays for the entire year? That seems pretty shortsighted, no?

 

[Eesti]

Who would argue that on tape? Outside of a once in a while crosser that was to the wrong shoulder that kid was spot on.

What do you think about Orlovsky's assessment that Tua has not been good against top 30 defenses? Obviously there is a lot remaining to be seen for all these future NFL QB's. Tua, Fromm, Lawrence, Love, etc.

A lot could change in the next year (or two). It will definitely be fun to watch college football this year though!

Against Top 30 defenses last season, Tagovailoa tossed six touchdown passes and six interceptions, managing a pedestrian QBR of 43 and a completion rate at 58 percent. He would've won the Heisman had those numbers been better considering his surgical precision against units outside of the Top 30 (37 touchdown, no interceptions, 13.1 yards per attempt).

https://247sports.com/Article/Tua-T...NFL-Draft-quarterback-Dan-Orlovsky-134444136/

 

[andyahs]

Colts which is why they have Luck.

I agree that drafting Tua and putting him behind this line is franchise suicide, but we have like +$120m in cap space next season so let's say they end up with Tua. That's a lot of money and other draft picks to fortify the lines with.

Also, I don't really understand what you mean by "throwing away an entire season". We aren't going anywhere this year regardless, so what's the benefit to winning 5 games instead of 2? You get 3 additional happy Sundays for the entire year? That seems pretty shortsighted, no?

Yes I can enjoy three more Sundays.

Short-sighted for the fans who have zero control or the players and coaches who grind out every Sunday for a win?

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

What do you think about Orlovsky's assessment that Tua has not been good against top 30 defenses? Obviously there is a lot remaining to be seen for all these future NFL QB's. Tua, Fromm, Lawrence, Love, etc.

A lot could change in the next year (or two). It will definitely be fun to watch college football this year though!

Against Top 30 defenses last season, Tagovailoa tossed six touchdown passes and six interceptions, managing a pedestrian QBR of 43 and a completion rate at 58 percent. He would've won the Heisman had those numbers been better considering his surgical precision against units outside of the Top 30 (37 touchdown, no interceptions, 13.1 yards per attempt).

https://247sports.com/Article/Tua-T...NFL-Draft-quarterback-Dan-Orlovsky-134444136/

Here's my question for Orlovsky - Top 30 in what category? And why are we using Top 30 as an arbitrary number? Why not Top 25 defenses? Top 10? Top 5? Top 2?

Because Tua is the only one that faced the top 2 defenses in the country {Clemson and Mississippi St.}. Nobody else qualifies.

He's the only one that faced 5 defenses ranked in the top 30 in scoring defense {Clemson, Mississippi St., Auburn, Georgia, LSU} - and the only one who faced 4 defenses in the top 30 in total defense {Mississippi St., Clemson, Georgia, LSU}

The fact that he faced Clemson, Mississippi St., Georgia, and LSU is what skews those stats in terms of the turnovers. Those were brutal defenses, and he was playing injured.

No Orlovsky, the reason he didn't win the Heisman is because the Heisman winner Kyler Murray didn't have to face those caliber defenses. The best defense he faced all season was Army.

Compare Tua's performance against the same defenses both he and Fromm faced {LSU, Auburn, Missouri, Tennessee} and let's see what the stats tell us. Anybody want to run that one?

How many top 30 defenses did Trevor Lawrence face? The answer is two. When they got to the playoffs - Alabama and Notre Dame.



So the bottom line is this, who is this quarterback during their first season as a starter that didn't see a dropoff in their production and annihilated top 30 defenses like a knife through hot butter?

Was it Peyton Manning? Baker Mayfield? Patrick Mahomes? Aaron Rodgers? Drew Brees? Kyler Murray? Matthew Stafford? Andrew Luck?

Who the **** was it? I'm getting a little tired of asking this question and getting no answer.

 

[Namor]

I know....

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Against Top 30 defenses last season, Tagovailoa tossed six touchdown passes and six interceptions, managing a pedestrian QBR of 43 and a completion rate at 58 percent.

This isn't even accurate - in the games Tua faced top 30 defenses, he tossed 11 touchdown passes and 6 interceptions. Apparently the Auburn game where he threw 5 TD's and 0 INT's doesn't count. Imagine that.

 

[Namor]

And played hurt against those defenses,also...

 

[hoops]

What do you think about Orlovsky's assessment that Tua has not been good against top 30 defenses? Obviously there is a lot remaining to be seen for all these future NFL QB's. Tua, Fromm, Lawrence, Love, etc.

A lot could change in the next year (or two). It will definitely be fun to watch college football this year though!

Against Top 30 defenses last season, Tagovailoa tossed six touchdown passes and six interceptions, managing a pedestrian QBR of 43 and a completion rate at 58 percent. He would've won the Heisman had those numbers been better considering his surgical precision against units outside of the Top 30 (37 touchdown, no interceptions, 13.1 yards per attempt).

https://247sports.com/Article/Tua-T...NFL-Draft-quarterback-Dan-Orlovsky-134444136/

Slimms the guy to ask. All I know is when I watched his 2018 tape and just keyed the qb I came away saying I would gladly go 0 and 16 for it.

I think for me it’s more about post snap reads/verifications. I just want to see more evidence of it.